jahnyc Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Interesting to read about and see the poor production from P. Price the last couple of years. It seems that many of our free agents that have left over the recent years have not been particularly productive with their new teams. P. Price, M. Wiley, T. Smith and S. Cowart are prime examples. There are exceptions. A. Winfield had a good year, Ted Washington (he was waived) played well for a couple of years, as did A. Smith. I wonder if our experience is consistent with that of other teams. It seems that many of the free agents that we have acquired, such at Fletcher, Spikes and Sam Adams, have met or exceeded expectations. Teague, Villarail and Posey have come close to meeting expectations. Overall, not too many recent real "dud" free agent acquisitions by the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Posey hasn't met his expectations? He is a good LB and an anchor in that group. He doesn't get the sacks/interceptions but he is key to unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Overall, not too many recent real "dud" free agent acquisitions by the Bills.221821[/snapback] WR Bobby Shaw DE Marcus Jones T Kris Farris K Rian Lindell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 winfield was still WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 WR Bobby ShawDE Marcus Jones T Kris Farris K Rian Lindell 221829[/snapback] The thing is that those guys were 2nd-tier free agents. None of them were paid any grand sum of money like Wiley, Cowart, P Price and A Winfield. All of them combined don't even amount to Price's signing bonus. Our major FA aquisitions have been excellent and one of Donahoe's major accomplishments. Milloy, Adams, Spikes, Fletcher. Very good signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 WR Bobby ShawDE Marcus Jones T Kris Farris K Rian Lindell 221829[/snapback] CB Chris Watson CB Danian Sidney OL TJ Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Posey hasn't met his expectations? He is a good LB and an anchor in that group. He doesn't get the sacks/interceptions but he is key to unit. 221825[/snapback] I disagree. I don't think Posey has done anything that Josh Stamer or Angelo Crowell couldn't. He's been riding the coat tails of Spikes and Fletcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The thing is that those guys were 2nd-tier free agents. None of them were paid any grand sum of money like Wiley, Cowart, P Price and A Winfield. All of them combined don't even amount to Price's signing bonus. Our major FA aquisitions have been excellent and one of Donahoe's major accomplishments. Milloy, Adams, Spikes, Fletcher. Very good signings. 221839[/snapback] I agree on everyone except Lindell. Kickers may not have high salaries, but they are important. He stinks. TD rolled the dice on him and lost. This isn't really a complaint, you can't win'em all. High price Hollis was not a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Interesting to read about and see the poor production from P. Price the last couple of years. It seems that many of our free agents that have left over the recent years have not been particularly productive with their new teams. P. Price, M. Wiley, T. Smith and S. Cowart are prime examples. There are exceptions. A. Winfield had a good year, Ted Washington (he was waived) played well for a couple of years, as did A. Smith. I wonder if our experience is consistent with that of other teams. It seems that many of the free agents that we have acquired, such at Fletcher, Spikes and Sam Adams, have met or exceeded expectations. Teague, Villarail and Posey have come close to meeting expectations. Overall, not too many recent real "dud" free agent acquisitions by the Bills. 221821[/snapback] troy vincent really needs to earn his money in '05.......injury wasn't his fault and doesn't make the signing "a dud", but we didn't get much production from him in '04......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Posey hasn't met his expectations? He is a good LB and an anchor in that group. He doesn't get the sacks/interceptions but he is key to unit. 221825[/snapback] Since judgments are being made, I think your assessment of Posey is correct and the judgment to be made really is of those who had unreasonable expectations or demands of a player for the relative pay he has received. I think most Bills fans had hopes tha Posey would become the next Bryce Paup was really those who had expectations or demand that this occur are just out to lunch in terms of football judgments. Posey's cap hit for 2005 is at about $1.7 million. Spikes is at about $5.4 milllion and Fletcher is at about $3.8 million. This compares quite favorably with the market as the top 10 average LB salaries is at about $5 million. Spikes is one of the best LBs in the league and is paid like, Fletcher who is arguably one of the better LBs but gets downranked a bit due to some dumb penalties is actually a steal at this salary for the number of tackles he produces and Posey at the very least produces at a level consistent with a wage well below that of the top LBs. Based on the hype of his Texan numbers, more sacks from him would have been great, but he and the D have certainly met my expectations. Posters whose views I take seriously as not having their head up their butts have complained about Posey them seeing Posey turned the wrong way on some plays and other failings. However, I have not heard my call to them answered to identify specific plays or stats where this bad positioning they see has turned into points against us. Posey is fine as best as I can tell its folks expectations which are out to lunch on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 It seems that (generally) the players that leave for $$$$ don't live up to those $$$$ (at least if they had stayed on the Bills for those $$$$. Winfield might be worth those $$$$ to the Vikes, but not the Bills). It also seems that the players who do find some success elsewhere are the 2nd tier guys who were either cut or we hadn't bothered to re-sign.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 WR Bobby ShawDE Marcus Jones T Kris Farris K Rian Lindell 221829[/snapback] I think one needs to factor in salary and expectation indeclaring a player a dud (if this ranking is more than a statement of production or stats) or a bust (which certainly is a perjorative which questions a players' efforts or head. 1. Shaw I think qualifies as a dud for 04, but he produced and was not one in 03 when he actually outpaced our #2 Reed in filling Moulds' role. He got cut this year to prove a point which needed to be proved in order for the Bills to not rest on their losses of an 0-4 start. However, he appeared to me to be a reasonable victim to choose to make the point eveyone must contribute rather than judging him a dud or cancer becaue his actions were fine. 2. Jones clearly did not meet out hopes, but he simply failed to recover from the injury which ruined a promising career and I don't think anyone has anything bad to say about his effort or us taking what I think was a relatively cheap flyer on him. 3. Clearly a dud in terms of showing the pre-injury promise he showed as a highly ranked collegian, but again he was a relatively cheap flyer to take. 4. Lindell is one who can be clearly called a dud and perhaps even a bust. He is proof positive to date of one of the stupidest things TD ever said that good kickers are a dime a dozen. 20/20 hindsight shows he mismanaged things in cutting Christie (who is still in the league, chose to live in the area, and is weak legged but easily outpacing Lindell), depending on Ariens, cutting Graham who is now a stalwart with Cincy, being unable to maintain a relationship with Hollis and the Lindell saga. I think Lindell's play is far from all bad because tjhe kick coverage game which the kicker is central to has been so good and he did a great job with one of the 2 or so onside kicks he was called upon to make. However, kickers get the big bucks to make kicks and Lindell has failed to be a weapon for distance and missed a chip shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 CB Chris Watson 221849[/snapback] watson wasn't a FA, he was acquired via trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 watson wasn't a FA, he was acquired via trade 221970[/snapback] Even worse... was it with Denver?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 WR Bobby ShawDE Marcus Jones T Kris Farris K Rian Lindell 221829[/snapback] Bobby Shaw was the leading receiver last year, I thought he did well, and was a better 3rd receiver than Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I disagree. I don't think Posey has done anything that Josh Stamer or Angelo Crowell couldn't. He's been riding the coat tails of Spikes and Fletcher. 221851[/snapback] Well i am glad Jerry Grey is the coordinator since he obviously knows something we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills/Sabresfan Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 great post and something I think about. I think back to House Ballard, Nate Odomes and Mike Hollis having major career ending injuries after leaving the Bills. If my memory serves me, Ballard played afew years then got hurt. I know there are several others, but I am too tired to remember them. Doug in Clearwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills/Sabresfan Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 i think Thomas Smith as well?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 I didn't want to go back too far, but you are correct about Ballard, et al. Another one is Shane Conlan. I think he signed with the Rams and then got injured. Bennett left the Bills and generally played well. I thought Bruce's skills detiorated pretty quickly after leaving the Bills. Same with Andre Reed and Thurman Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Whatever happened to Flipper Johnson, the guy that caught that deflected pass for a TD in the 1988 MNF game at the Meadowlands when Jets fans set the upper deck on fire? Did he ever amount to anything?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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