Theory on the cause of so much negative NFL news lately

[KD in CA]

Same here Buftex. I could not disagree more either, e.g. your inference that if someone doesn't proclaim their innocence, one would assume they are guilty? just a plain asinine argument. But I didn't rip on you. Whatever.

 

I don't care what Bob Costas thinks about gun control either because I'm pretty sure if I met the guy I wouldn't agree with him about much of anything. The media grabs onto something they think they can utilize to affect social change and they will not let it go.

 

The issue here is this **** isn't even real news. ISIS, West Bank, Crimea, Afghanistan. And we're listening to talking heads with room temperature IQs talk 24-7 about football violence. get a real problem.

 

my issue isn't specifically what happened to any one player it is the endemic use of media power try to manipulate what happens to people and force us to agree with them on certain issues.

 

ISIS? As far as I know they haven't been convicted in court of any crimes so why would any reasonable person seek to impede their right to continue working?

[GaryPinC]

My theory: ESPN and 9 million social networks. What % of NFL players are actually doing these crimes? Do you think players in the past weren't committing similar crimes? Didn't the Honeymooners begin with him threatening to send his wife to the movie?

 

If you hit a woman or a child, you aren't a man. But let's not act like football players are the only ones doing it.

 

Why blame the media? The NFL and Goodell have declared themselves judge, jury, and executioner in their efforts to clean up the image of the league. Some of the punishment is spelled out, some of it is highly subjective. Most of the time it revolves around banned substance use/abuse. All these criminal incidents have people questioning if the NFL is properly dealing with this end of its image. Bravo.

Let's see how the NFL responds. And there are a ton of great, down-to-earth, humble guys in the league. Playing a violent game doesn't justify violence in life. If these guys need help get it for them or fire 'em. What's the policy of your average publicly owned company if you as an employee get convicted of similar crimes?

[Mark80]

Really? I can't quote statistics and compare felonies, beatings, DUIs, etc on pro athletes vs the general public. But the many reports seem to imply that the rates of these seem to be way out of proportion (one might say an epidemic), and most certainly then the media coverage is NOT out of proportion.

 

And to answer the original question as to why? Give an athlete praise, money, put them on a pedestal and worship his as a hero, and now add stress, alcohol, and a disagreement, and suddenly Mr. Hand turns into Mr. Fist or worse.

 

Personal responsibility is gone - since the NFL and NFLPA ignored this for years, I am NOT going to blame the media for doing their job here. Character matters and most people don't want to work with felons or wife beaters.

 

And you are the exact problem. People admittedly making assumption that they have no idea about. I'll do it for you. A report by the US Department of Justice stated that 1.3% of women experienced domestic violence in the general public for a one year time period. On average, of these 1.3% of women, they each encounter 6.9 assaults per year. https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/nij/183781.txt

 

In the NFL, the 5 players in the last year that have been associated with domestic violence (one including a child only) account for only 0.25% of the players and there certainly are no reports of up to 6.9 assaults by any of them.

 

Now, obviously not every incident is reported and anyone who is good with statistics and logic can point some holes in the comparisons I just made, but a reasonable conclusion from these is that it occurs 5 times less often in the NFL than it does in the general public.

 

Apparently, no one cares about women and children in the general public though, only the ones that are beat up by famous people. And there is where my problem with the media lies.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Mark80

[garbag3man]

Same here Buftex. I could not disagree more either, e.g. your inference that if someone doesn't proclaim their innocence, one would assume they are guilty? just a plain asinine argument. But I didn't rip on you. Whatever.

 

I don't care what Bob Costas thinks about gun control either because I'm pretty sure if I met the guy I wouldn't agree with him about much of anything. The media grabs onto something they think they can utilize to affect social change and they will not let it go.

 

The issue here is this **** isn't even real news. ISIS, West Bank, Crimea, Afghanistan. And we're listening to talking heads with room temperature IQs talk 24-7 about football violence. get a real problem.

 

my issue isn't specifically what happened to any one player it is the endemic use of media power try to manipulate what happens to people and force us to agree with them on certain issues.

 

This is an absolutely silly thing to say. OF COURSE THIS IS NEWS. The conversation is about the SEVERE lack of respect that is shown towards women in this society. If poor, poor, multi-millionaire psychopaths (who I agree are a very small percentage of the league as a whole) are villified in the media, and it leads to even a modicum of change in the way that our society treats/views women...who cares. This is definitely news. The only difference about this conversation is that the sports media are driving this conversation, because that is the medium in which it happened.

[garbag3man]

And you are the exact problem. People admittedly making assumption that they have no idea about. I'll do it for you. A report by the US Department of Justice stated that 1.3% of women experienced domestic violence in the general public for a one year time period. On average, of these 1.3% of women, they each encounter 6.9 assaults per year. https://www.ncjrs.go.../nij/183781.txt

 

In the NFL, the 5 players in the last year that have been associated with domestic violence (one including a child only) account for only 0.25% of the players and there certainly are no reports of up to 6.9 assaults by any of them.

 

Now, obviously not every incident is reported and anyone who is good with statistics and logic can point some holes in the comparisons I just made, but a reasonable conclusion from these is that it occurs 5 times less often in the NFL than it does in the general public.

 

Apparently, no one cares about women and children in the general public though, only the ones that are beat up by famous people. And there is where my problem with the media lies.

 

I agree with your point that the media are not covering this issue as a whole, however we are talking about the NFL, and if there is an increase in violence. It doesn't make sense for the ESPN to cover Steve who lives in Rochester beating his wife. It does however make sense for them to cover the rash of arrests recently, and if they can use that coverage to effect change, I don't really have a problem with it. That doesn't mean that don't wish that it was covered more in the normal media.

[Mark80]

I agree with your point that the media are not covering this issue as a whole, however we are talking about the NFL, and if there is an increase in violence. It doesn't make sense for the ESPN to cover Steve who lives in Rochester beating his wife. It does however make sense for them to cover the rash of arrests recently, and if they can use that coverage to effect change, I don't really have a problem with it. That doesn't mean that don't wish that it was covered more in the normal media.

 

Well, considering the NFL has a 5x lower rate of abuse than the general public (as I pointed out in the previous post), considering they have workshops for every rookie in the league on these issues, and considering they have readily available counseling programs for all of their players, I would say they are going beyond what everyone else is doing. I know that I have never worked for a corporation that had these things and I've worked for a numerous multi billion dollar organizations.

 

It is not an NFL issue, it has been turned into an NFL issue by the media looking for ratings. And all of you suckers are falling for it and are the reason they are doing it. This is an AMERICAN issue, a societal issue that needs to be tackled on a much grander scale, not by people calling for Goodell's resignation. I could almost guarantee you that not one of the ESPN panelist, anchors, reporters, employees have gone out of their way this past month to call or write a letter to one of their elected representatives saying that they are sick and tired of these monsters walking the streets and serving zero jail time for what they have done. I could also reasonably assume that none of you have either.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Mark80

[Buftex]

The NFL's indifference toward the issue, until their bottom line was threatened, is a pretty big story.

[The Big Cat]

No disrespect The Big Cat, but this is one of those tired cliches that keeps getting repeated. Does this imply that the 99.9 % of NFL players who don't beat their wives/girlfriends/kids are somehow not as dedicated to the game they play, or they aren't as "tough" a football player? Or don't play the game the right way? This is about the guys who committ the domestic violence, not the game they play. Why is everyone trying to give them some sort of excuse?

 

 

 

Agreed. Both incidents were pretty disturbing, but the Peterson thing really hit home for me as well. I took my share of beatings from my dad growing up (never with a "switch), so it isn't completely alien to me...but to see that done to an infant, and the guy seems to have no concept of how wrong this is, is pretty disturbing. I am not a huge Cris Carter fan, but he pretty much nailed it this past Sunday... (paraphrasing) "Just because your parents did it to you, that doesn't make it rigth for you to do it to your kid".

 

In a recent interview Ross Tucker said there are really only two things that matter in an NFL locker room:

1. How much money you make
   
2. How violent you're willing to be
   

[DrDawkinstein]

I agree with your point that the media are not covering this issue as a whole, however we are talking about the NFL, and if there is an increase in violence. It doesn't make sense for the ESPN to cover Steve who lives in Rochester beating his wife. It does however make sense for them to cover the rash of arrests recently, and if they can use that coverage to effect change, I don't really have a problem with it. That doesn't mean that don't wish that it was covered more in the normal media.

 

There havent been a "rash of arrests lately". People are just noticing them right now.

[garbag3man]

There havent been a "rash of arrests lately". People are just noticing them right now.

 

In fact, "a rash of" means a large number of. I would say that the number of DV arrests of players in the NFL is in fact "a rash of."

Edited September 18, 2014 by garbag3man

[The Big Cat]

There havent been a "rash of arrests lately". People are just noticing them right now.

 

I'm just glad Naaman Roosevelt was on the team long enough to make your avatar.

[Rob's House]

 

 

Well, there are roughly 2.5 to 3 times as many NFL players on active rosters than any other sport.

 

I love football as much as anyone, but those of you who are trying to minimize this (not saying you Mayhem) are coming off as tone-deaf as the NFL. Why does it upset you so much that there is a call to stop this bs from going on? Because you have to hear about it too much, and it makes you feel guilty for supporting the league? Does it mess up your Fantasy Football roster? Poor you... what many of you are failing to acknowledge is that Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson have not denied the crimes they are being accused of. That isn't even open for debate. There is nobody trying to extort them or press bogus charges agaist them..they have admitted it. Why are you so bummed that they are getting punished for it? Or do you think that punching your woman out, or beating your infant child are just "no big deal", or just "things that just happen"? Blame the media all you want...but I would contend, this is one of the rare instances as of late, where the media is doing its' job.

 

Because some of us aren't crazy about the trend of ad hoc penalties being handed out at the whims of social media mobs.

 

 

It's bigger than these incidents. Hell, it's bigger than the NFL, ESPN, or professional sports in general. The problem is the societal attitude towards seeking punishment for bad behavior by any means possible.

 

 

 

This is an absolutely silly thing to say. OF COURSE THIS IS NEWS. The conversation is about the SEVERE lack of respect that is shown towards women in this society. If poor, poor, multi-millionaire psychopaths (who I agree are a very small percentage of the league as a whole) are villified in the media, and it leads to even a modicum of change in the way that our society treats/views women...who cares. This is definitely news. The only difference about this conversation is that the sports media are driving this conversation, because that is the medium in which it happened.

 

Really?

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rob's House

[DrDawkinstein]

Because some of us aren't crazy about the trend of ad hoc penalties being handed out at the whims of social media mobs.

 

 

It's bigger than these incidents. Hell, it's bigger than the NFL, ESPN, or professional sports in general. The problem is the societal attitude towards seeking punishment for bad behavior by any means possible.

 

Really?

 

Ah yes, the real issue that needs to be resolved here is that there is TOO MUCH punishing of these women and child beaters.

[Rob's House]

 

 

Ah yes, the real issue that needs to be resolved here is that there is TOO MUCH punishing of these women and child beaters.

 

How you extrapolated that from my response is mind blowing. I don't normally tell people how to live, but maybe you should put the bong down.

[KD in CA]

Because some of us aren't crazy about the trend of ad hoc penalties being handed out at the whims of social media mobs.

 

It's bigger than these incidents. Hell, it's bigger than the NFL, ESPN, or professional sports in general. The problem is the societal attitude towards seeking punishment for bad behavior by any means possible.

 

So it's the ad hoc nature that's the problem? If the policy is that every wife/child beater is suspended immediately after arrest everything will be ok? Good news: we seem to be quickly moving in that direction.

[Rob's House]

 

 

So it's the ad hoc nature that's the problem? If the policy is that every wife/child beater is suspended immediately after arrest everything will be ok? Good news: we seem to be quickly moving in that direction.

 

I've written volumes on the subject this week in threads you've been posting in. Do you really need me to break it down for you again or are you just being obtuse? Seriously, I'll break it down if you really don't get what I'm saying here.

[DrDawkinstein]

How you extrapolated that from my response is mind blowing. I don't normally tell people how to live, but maybe you should put the bong down.

I've written volumes on the subject this week in threads you've been posting in. Do you really need me to break it down for you again or are you just being obtuse? Seriously, I'll break it down if you really don't get what I'm saying here.

 

I'll search out the other threads then, because what you are saying here is not getting your point across apparently.

[Rob's House]

 

 

 

I'll search out the other threads then, because what you are saying here is not getting your point across apparently.

 

Perhaps not. What I'm saying is for me and many others it's not about these guys and what they deserve, but rather it's about a disturbing trend in our culture where we form what are essentially mobs via social media, and seek to destroy the person who has offended our sensibilities.

 

The problem is that mobs are typically not terribly rational. Part of the reason we settled on a republican form of government with electoral terms was to have a government that represented the will of the governed but was somewhat insulated from the fleeting passions of the masses.

 

Technology has created a situation where we can effectively destroy the livelihood of someone without any of the protections that the criminal justice system provides.

 

If you look at the bigger picture it's reason for everyone to fear. You may think it doesn't matter to you because you don't beat your wife, but it's bigger than that. Imagine if you were falsely accused, or did something justifiable under the circumstances that looks awful out of context.

 

Or take it another step further. Everyone has said or done something that if known to the public would enrage a big enough segment of the population sufficiently to put you in the crosshairs if you have any kind of high profile, or even not so high profile position.

 

As a society we should be responsible enough to refrain from joining the mob and let the justice system do it's job. If you don't like the way it works your issue should be with the state rather than imposing your will through extortion like methods on non-culpable private parties to exact your vengeance merely because they have the ability (but not obligation) to do so.

[FireChan]

Perhaps not. What I'm saying is for me and many others it's not about these guys and what they deserve, but rather it's about a disturbing trend in our culture where we form what are essentially mobs via social media, and seek to destroy the person who has offended our sensibilities.

 

The problem is that mobs are typically not terribly rational. Part of the reason we settled on a republican form of government with electoral terms was to have a government that represented the will of the governed but was somewhat insulated from the fleeting passions of the masses.

 

Technology has created a situation where we can effectively destroy the livelihood of someone without any of the protections that the criminal justice system provides.

 

If you look at the bigger picture it's reason for everyone to fear. You may think it doesn't matter to you because you don't beat your wife, but it's bigger than that. Imagine if you were falsely accused, or did something justifiable under the circumstances that looks awful out of context.

 

Or take it another step further. Everyone has said or done something that if known to the public would enrage a big enough segment of the population sufficiently to put you in the crosshairs if you have any kind of high profile, or even not so high profile position.

 

As a society we should be responsible enough to refrain from joining the mob and let the justice system do it's job. If you don't like the way it works your issue should be with the state rather than imposing your will through extortion like methods on non-culpable private parties to exact your vengeance merely because they have the ability (but not obligation) to do so.

 

Rob is 2/2 dropping knowledge the past 24 hours.

[Rob's House]

Rob is 2/2 dropping knowledge the past 24 hours.

 

Thanks man. I appreciate that.