Joe B's Upon Further Review: Dolphins at Bills

[CardinalScotts]

long time scout Joe Bus ? Former NFL standout Joe Bus ? Former anything to do in anyway with the NFL Joe Bus? the former intern? (ding)

[Saxum]

was urbik successful under a different blocking scheme than what they are using now? has he just regressed? or were his deficiencies masked better under a different scheme/regime? i have no idea. but i thought at one point in time he was one of our better and more dependable linemen.

 

Blocking scheme was much different two years ago when it looked like we had three solid guards; two choose to go elsewhere and Urbik regressed. The loss of OL coach definitely we an impact since both who left cited how much the fired offense line coach taught them and improved their ability from college.

[cage]

I'm guessing the grade is based on the 4.0. And, if that's the case, for the most part, I can live with his grades.

 

What I don't get is the +/- on plays. Just for an example, let's use EJ as it's a bit easier to focus on the QB without watching further tape. His grade of 2.7 seems about right. But is he actually saying EJ made as many negative plays as he did positive plays? Doesn't every good pass count as a positive play? If you don't want to use EJ, then pick an offensive lineman. Wouldn't you count every time the OL kept EJ free from pressure on a pass play, or open a home for an RB a positive play? I'm guessing a bad pass, or a missed blocking assignment counts as a negative play, which seems right. But I can't figure out why there are so few positive plays. I mean just about every player makes far more positive plays than negative plays. So does he every really explain what it takes for him to count a play as "positive"? Are the plays he is discussing the only positive plays he sees? And, again for example, does he count the unsuccessful pass to Watkins as a positive (great throw) or a negative (not a TV)? I admit it's hard for me to focus tonight, but perhaps somebody can explain in terms I can understand. Don't use big words, OK?

 

I would like a clearer explanation of the +/- as well and you're right EJ is a good easy example to provide it on. As I think about it:

-- He was 16 / 26.

-- 16 completions should be all positive plays.... you might count a completion as negative if he dumped off to a RB who got hit right away for a loss or if he completed a 5 yd pass on 3rd-7, so that might have happened a couple times

-- 10 incompletions might be negative plays,... you might change it to positive for the QB if the receiver dropped it or some outstanding defensive play to break up the pass occurred, which did happen on what should have been a long TD pass to Sammy in 1Q

-- He was only sacked once

-- Not sure how he counts running plays. As long as the snap isn't fumbled, or the hand off and the hand-off is clean without slowing the RB it should be a positive play

 

Seems like EJ should be much higher on the +/-. But generally this analysis is very helpful in understanding the team!

Edited September 19, 2014 by cage

[machine gun kelly]

'

i am wondering if kujo and richardson could eventually slot in at the two guard spots and solidify a young, talented line. i may be dreaming here, but hey, that's what i do.

 

Yes on Richardson maybe by the Patriots game, and no on Kuondjo. He's too tall for Guard. I don't see it. You need leverage at the Guard position and is faster as the first step on the interrior is just faster. Try and bend your legs and imagine your 6'7", vs. a 6'0" DT who can get push underneath you.

 

That's why you normally see Guards at 6-6'3" in height. There are exceptions before people bring up outliers, but overall it is harder for a taller dude to make it as an interior lineman. Now on the outside, you love tackles with quick feet, long arms, tall, and plays with leverage.

 

Lastly, i know many of you know this point on Guards, but people keep bringing up Kuondjo at Guard. My comments are only for those that believe this is going to happen. Besides, Kuondjo has been shown to have poor leverage, and slow feet up to this point. Maybe he'll get it, but he has not shown that in pre-season or training camp.

[cage]

'

 

Yes on Richardson maybe by the Patriots game, and no on Kuondjo. He's too tall for Guard. I don't see it. You need leverage at the Guard position and is faster as the first step on the interrior is just faster. Try and bend your legs and imagine your 6'7", vs. a 6'0" DT who can get push underneath you.

 

That's why you normally see Guards at 6-6'3" in height. There are exceptions before people bring up outliers, but overall it is harder for a taller dude to make it as an interior lineman. Now on the outside, you love tackles with quick feet, long arms, tall, and plays with leverage.

 

Lastly, i know many of you know this point on Guards, but people keep bringing up Kuondjo at Guard. My comments are only for those that believe this is going to happen. Besides, Kuondjo has been shown to have poor leverage, and slow feet up to this point. Maybe he'll get it, but he has not shown that in pre-season or training camp.

 

Totally agree! I've been confused by all the Kuondjo at Guard talk as well and for the same reasons... He'll be a back-up T for the forseeable future. An if he develops, then guys in that position end up needing to play and start several games during a typical year. Our back-up T have probably 5 starts per year the last few years on one side or the other...

[playman]

CW is 6-7 too??

[cage]

CW is 6-7 too??

 

and Pears is 6'-8".... but if we go back to the OP's link analyzing the game, these two are among our bottom 5 players in the grading after the first 2 games

[The Dean]

'

 

Yes on Richardson maybe by the Patriots game, and no on Kuondjo. He's too tall for Guard. I don't see it. You need leverage at the Guard position and is faster as the first step on the interrior is just faster. Try and bend your legs and imagine your 6'7", vs. a 6'0" DT who can get push underneath you.

 

That's why you normally see Guards at 6-6'3" in height. There are exceptions before people bring up outliers, but overall it is harder for a taller dude to make it as an interior lineman. Now on the outside, you love tackles with quick feet, long arms, tall, and plays with leverage.

 

Lastly, i know many of you know this point on Guards, but people keep bringing up Kuondjo at Guard. My comments are only for those that believe this is going to happen. Besides, Kuondjo has been shown to have poor leverage, and slow feet up to this point. Maybe he'll get it, but he has not shown that in pre-season or training camp.

CW is 6-7 too??

and Pears is 6'-8".... but if we go back to the OP's link analyzing the game, these two are among our bottom 5 players in the grading after the first 2 games

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting Kujo has ideal size, or even skill set, for a guard. But neither do the two guys the Bills have playing the position now. The question has simply been asked, might he be better than what we have now?

[Max997]

is Urbik really that bad? He has played great before what's the problem now?

 

Urbik was never great, solid at best

 

I dont get why they are not trying Kuoandjio at Guard considering his strong suit is run blocking

 

we're one of the top rated OL's in the league right now

 

based on what? stats can be very misleading

[jahbonas]

long time scout Joe Bus ? Former NFL standout Joe Bus ? Former anything to do in anyway with the NFL Joe Bus? the former intern? (ding)

 

Exactly right - its incredible how Joe B opinion is gospel and unfortunately it shapes the opinions of WNY fans via WGR.

 

Joe B needs to understand - we do not care about YOUR opinion - we care about the opinion of the scouts/coaches/players you may have access to.

 

Paul Hamilton does the same thing.

 

Offering their own opinion is poor reporting its easy its lazy. The great reporting is finding ways to get those who are the experts - not you PRETENDING to be an expert.

[vincec]

Just a guess here; however, I think Richardson will be in the starting lineup by mid-season.

I agree. Marrone wants Richardson to get a shot so he's going to take somebody's spot. At this point Pears is a better pass blocker than Williams but really bad in the run game. So it's a tough call as to who goes unless injuries make the decision easy.

[3rdand12]

I saw him being doubled more often than not.

Dareus got the attention wit doubles. Played with good hustle considering he is so fat /

 

Pears is playing out of postion and it shows. Just too big to bend and drive.

But i suppose it is the best five on the field. At least you have Experienced veterans besides S H. That must be the reason for this lineup.

room for improvement . yes. but its still better than last year by a country mile .

Edited September 19, 2014 by 3rdand12

[TC in St. Louis]

Cyrus will eventually learn the pro game and be a very good player. He has size, strength, and intelligence.

[Doc]

Dareus got the attention wit doubles. Played with good hustle considering he is so fat /

 

Pears is playing out of postion and it shows. Just too big to bend and drive.

But i suppose it is the best five on the field. At least you have Experienced veterans besides S H. That must be the reason for this lineup.

room for improvement . yes. but its still better than last year by a country mile .

Urbik is shorter at 6'5" (versus 6'8" for Pears), and he's a veteran, so going back to him would make sense.

[3rdand12]

Urbik is shorter at 6'5" (versus 6'8" for Pears), and he's a veteran, so going back to him would make sense.

I thought that too.

But they are depending on him as a back up center and i think he is the only one capable !

Lets hope the rookies develop quickly or Pears finds his way at guard. Still as I mentioned better than last years offering.

we might have forgottenalready how frightening that truly was , and the year before and the year before etc

[Doc]

I thought that too.

But they are depending on him as a back up center and i think he is the only one capable !

Lets hope the rookies develop quickly or Pears finds his way at guard. Still as I mentioned better than last years offering.

we might have forgottenalready how frightening that truly was , and the year before and the year before etc

Even if Urbik is the only backup center, in case of injury to Wood, you'd then shift him to C and insert Pears at RG. I'd rather have the 5 best starting than worry about contingency plans.

[The Dean]

Even if Urbik is the only backup center, in case of injury to Wood, you'd then shift him to C and insert Pears at RG. I'd rather have the 5 best starting than worry about contingency plans.

 

I'm guessing the reference to Urbik being the only C backup meant, by him playing guard he increases his change for injury. That is, if Wood gets injured the backup may also be injured.

[3rdand12]

I'm guessing the reference to Urbik being the only C backup meant, by him playing guard he increases his change for injury. That is, if Wood gets injured the backup may also be injured.

Thanks Dean . That was my intended point.

Wood has only had one full season healthy hasn't he ?.

And we know how injuries have hurt ( destroyed ) the Bills O lline in years past.

But Doc i understand your point !

Edited September 20, 2014 by 3rdand12