negativo Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 TBH, I wouldn't bench EJ quite yet. Yes, I think he's doomed to bust, but he still needs more rope to either hang himself or save himself. If he bombs out again in Houston this week that rope will grow real short. Having the highest paid backup QB in the league shortens it even further.
DC Tom Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I am not familiar with many NFL teams where the receivers' disdain is directed at the QB at the completion of a play. If it happens, it's usually an isolated incident, not separate reactions from the entire receiving corps That one play is horrific on many levels, Hackett calls a great play, where SD bites on play action, 3 Bills' receivers are open in the same planar view for EJ. He pump fakes to an open Chandler, while Big Mike clearly gets behind the double coverage. Yet EJ inexplicably pulls the ball down and in between deciding to run or pass, dumps off a wild throw that misses Woods by a mile who's only a couple of yards away from him. To me Woods' reaction at the end of the play was very telling. It wasn't just anger at the missed pass, but also, why were you throwing to me in the first place? If that play doesn't bring back memories of JP and Josh Reed, I don't know what does. If the receivers are frustrated about who was and was not thrown to in that play, they're idiots. Manuel's fault in that play was deciding to pass - no, run - no, wait, pass - in the first place. Complaining that was a bad throw, or he missed the open receiver, or threw to the wrong receiver misses the true problem with that whole play: Manuel tried to do several things at once, committed to none of them while overthinking all of them, and blew up the play all by his lonesome well before the ball left his hands, simply by being indecisive. It's as I've said before - when he plays within his abilities and the called play, he's not that bad. It's when the play blows up and he has to improvise that horror ensues. And the answer to that isn't benching him for Orton, it's not putting him in the position to improvise to begin with (and teaching him that, when he does, to make a decision and commit to it. First thing they teach an officer in the Marines: you can be right or wrong, but you can never be indecisive.) TBH, I wouldn't bench EJ quite yet. Yes, I think he's doomed to bust, but he still needs more rope to either hang himself or save himself. If he bombs out again in Houston this week that rope will grow real short. Having the highest paid backup QB in the league shortens it even further. That's completely retarded. You're basically saying "Yeah, I'll play him...but I'm wrong, since he can't play." What kind of moron operates under the assumption that they're wrong?
papazoid Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) If EJ succeeds, the Bills will too. Should I be pissed if that happens? Why don't you articulate my take on EJ. I'll bet you have no idea. your take on EJ is: #1- improved over last year, trending up. #2- plenty of room for growth #3- patience Edited September 24, 2014 by papazoid
26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 your take on EJ is: #1- improved over last year, trending up. #2- plenty of room for growth #3- patience Yep. You nailed it. He certainly needs a bounce back game this Sunday after last week's ineffective performance. He showed an ability to do just that last season and hopefully he can get the train back on the tracks again because last Sunday was a derailment.
negativo Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 That's completely retarded. You're basically saying "Yeah, I'll play him...but I'm wrong, since he can't play." What kind of moron operates under the assumption that they're wrong? Well, being a retarded moron I'll try to form words to answer.... "Me think he not good. Me want to make sure he bad before benching. Me give him more time. Me think we know better soon."
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 If the receivers are frustrated about who was and was not thrown to in that play, they're idiots. Manuel's fault in that play was deciding to pass - no, run - no, wait, pass - in the first place. Complaining that was a bad throw, or he missed the open receiver, or threw to the wrong receiver misses the true problem with that whole play: Manuel tried to do several things at once, committed to none of them while overthinking all of them, and blew up the play all by his lonesome well before the ball left his hands, simply by being indecisive. It's as I've said before - when he plays within his abilities and the called play, he's not that bad. It's when the play blows up and he has to improvise that horror ensues. And the answer to that isn't benching him for Orton, it's not putting him in the position to improvise to begin with (and teaching him that, when he does, to make a decision and commit to it. First thing they teach an officer in the Marines: you can be right or wrong, but you can never be indecisive.) That was not a blown up play, it was executed perfectly, and he had a choice of three open receivers to throw to. But if you're saying that Hackett screwed up by giving EJ three options and he couldn't decide which one to take, and in the process blew the play up, then the team has bigger problems.
DC Tom Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 That was not a blown up play, it was executed perfectly, and he had a choice of three open receivers to throw to. But if you're saying that Hackett screwed up by giving EJ three options and he couldn't decide which one to take, and in the process blew the play up, then the team has bigger problems. No, I'm saying it was a blown play the moment EJ decided to be indecisive. You can take your pick when that was - if it was when he decided to run, or decided not to run - but either way, it was a blown play, blown well before the pass, and blown by Manuel.
The Wiz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 @kevinoDandC #Bills coach Doug Marrone when asked if any thought was given to replacing QB EJ Manuel with Kyle Orton on Sunday: "Absolutely not." Really? Figured he would have said "obviously not"
Gabe Northern Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The WGR All-22 was devastating on the indecisiveness. I think those thinking EJ will get better with time may have some surprises upcoming.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Really? Figured he would have said "obviously not" Maybe he's decided to diversify.
The Wiz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Maybe he's decided to diversify. Well obviously
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Same people who defend EJ today were also apologists for Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, JP Losman, Trent Green, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. Arguments are futile. Better to just express opinions and move along than get bogged down in a circular game of "show me indisputable evidence to prove opinions formed by watching with your own two eyes." Trent Green? Who actually turned out to be kind of alright? I would take Trent Green on this team. And by the way, way to make a completely unsupportable claim to support more unsupportable claims. I will happily admit I hoped for the best for each of these guys. None of them, except for the inexplicable Trent Green inclusion, were very good QBs.
JPS Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Here's a question: IF the Bills lose the next 2 and EJ plays poorly, then what? Ride it out or see what Orton could do? If Gilmore struggled for 2 weeks, I think you'd see Graham/McKelvin. If Henderson struggled, I think you'd see a move. Why is it different for a QB?
thebandit27 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Here's a question: IF the Bills lose the next 2 and EJ plays poorly, then what? Ride it out or see what Orton could do? If Gilmore struggled for 2 weeks, I think you'd see Graham/McKelvin. If Henderson struggled, I think you'd see a move. Why is it different for a QB? 2 Thoughts: I think it takes more than 2 weeks of struggling to get any starter replaced. It is different for a QB because he's touching the ball on every play, and needs to be in synch with his WRs, OL, RBs, etc. Depending upon the type of player, the entire offense may need to be modified to suit the new QB's skill set. Again, the team is 2-1 right now; are we supposed to think that a 2-2 record is bench-worthy for a QB that has started 14 games (and gone 6-8)?
DC Tom Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Trent Green? Who actually turned out to be kind of alright? I would take Trent Green on this team. And by the way, way to make a completely unsupportable claim to support more unsupportable claims. I will happily admit I hoped for the best for each of these guys. None of them, except for the inexplicable Trent Green inclusion, were very good QBs. Who the hell was ever a Trent Green apologist? When was Trent Green on the Bills?
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Here's a question: IF the Bills lose the next 2 and EJ plays poorly, then what? Ride it out or see what Orton could do? If Gilmore struggled for 2 weeks, I think you'd see Graham/McKelvin. If Henderson struggled, I think you'd see a move. Why is it different for a QB? Depends on how much they struggle, and how good the guys behind them are, no? I think Graham relative to Gilmore is much better than Orton relative to EJ, especially when you are trying to develop EJ. Others disagree and that's fine. Who the hell was ever a Trent Green apologist? When was Trent Green on the Bills? I wish I had been able to be a Trent Green apologist. Among Wally Pipps, he was one of the best and Wally Pippiest.
John from Riverside Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The WGR All-22 was devastating on the indecisiveness. I think those thinking EJ will get better with time may have some surprises upcoming. Seeing as how the all 22 has been very good to EJ leading up to this game and this game is ONE OF THREE TOTAL GAMES PLAYED.......then? if people are looking to see a bar graph showing steady improvement week to week I say.....learn football.....that does not happen in the NFL. You take the games as a whole not cherry pick them
JPS Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 2 Thoughts: I think it takes more than 2 weeks of struggling to get any starter replaced. It is different for a QB because he's touching the ball on every play, and needs to be in synch with his WRs, OL, RBs, etc. Depending upon the type of player, the entire offense may need to be modified to suit the new QB's skill set. Again, the team is 2-1 right now; are we supposed to think that a 2-2 record is bench-worthy for a QB that has started 14 games (and gone 6-8)? I'm suggesting 2 MORE weeks of struggling. There's no reason EJ should struggle against Houston (other than JJ Watt going up against Henderson). But if he does and looks bad against an improved Lions D, I wonder how long they let it go before they feel it's better to get him out of there for a spell.
thebandit27 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I'm suggesting 2 MORE weeks of struggling. There's no reason EJ should struggle against Houston (other than JJ Watt going up against Henderson). But if he does and looks bad against an improved Lions D, I wonder how long they let it go before they feel it's better to get him out of there for a spell. I think he'll be in there regardless until at least the bye week--if he completely melts down by that time, then I can see him being yanked at that point.
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