The Wiz Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The patient crowd claims Tuel sucked after 1.3 games as an UDFA. We're all hypocrites. Everyone loved Jordan Palmer's footwork though. I think that was unanimous on TBD.
JPS Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Let's play over/under Percent of posters who came to this thread with an open mind, who then, through thoughtful and measured discourse had their opinion evolve. I'm setting it at 0.5% And I'm taking the under. God forbid you have a contrary opinion. I am open to EJ improving to the point of being serviceable. But I think the biggest Bills fan would have to admit to seeing more to be worried about than to be excited about. Great...or even good QBs usually do something well early on despite the expected interceptions and poor record. I just haven't seen much that separates EJ from anyone. Throw, run, read, anticipate? I'd think you would see signs of it and they are too few and far between for, well, most people that watch football.
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Yes, I am. The last time I saw this kind of "communication" between a QB and his receivers was in the JP Losman hey day. How about we use that as the comparison point and not what Aaron Rodgers was doing on the bench in his first two years? Right now, there are a heck of a lot more parallels between EJ & JP, than between EJ and Rodgers. Okay, sure. You've clearly made your mind up about this, and I quite frankly I think you're grasping at straws to justify something that--I think--exists mainly in your mind.
Big Gun Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Nope. All are free to start as many as they like with declarative statements and supporting evidence. They'll be able to beat their collective chests and loudly proclaim they were right should EJ ultimately fail. And you will do the same thing should EJ succeed. Hypocrite much!
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Okay, sure. You've clearly made your mind up about this, and I quite frankly I think you're grasping at straws to justify something that--I think--exists mainly in your mind. Only in my mind. PS, watch not only Chandler's reaction but Woods after that play. That is some imaginary stuff I'm making up.
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 And you will do the same thing should EJ succeed. Hypocrite much! Yet one fan will be celebrating his team's success. The other is a 'fan' celebrating the team's failure. I'll happily be that hypocrite.
DrDawkinstein Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Only in my mind. PS, watch not only Chandler's reaction but Woods after that play. That is some imaginary stuff I'm making up. Are you asserting that no other NFL team has WRs that clap, and throw their hands up when they dont get the ball? Only us, and it must mean they have lost faith in EJ?
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Only in my mind. PS, watch not only Chandler's reaction but Woods after that play. That is some imaginary stuff I'm making up. And, again, I think it's quite the leap to assume that frustration after a botched play means locker room mutiny. Want me to admit they look frustrated? Fine. They look frustrated, With themselves? With the QB? With the refs? The playcall? I don't profess to be certain WHAT they're frustrated by. You, on the other hand, have not only laser'd in on the cause of the frustration, you've taken that assumption to extrapolate a sure-fire theory that the locker room is rapidly recruiting membership into the anti-EJ faction. Stop me when any of this becomes inaccurate. Please. Edited September 24, 2014 by The Big Cat
K-9 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Rodgers cannot be considered a "project." He played behind a great talent. You, me, even K-9 can't predict how Rodgers would have performed if he started week 1 of his rookie year forward. Not sure how one predicts a past event but still, given he was in the midst of having his delivery completely rebuilt, I'd say it's likely Rodgers would have struggled early on. And thanks for the snarky shot. GO BILLS!!! The players around EJ have gotten better. If it were just about decision-making, it would be acceptable. It's primarily about inaccuracy. Not sure how that is correctable. Ultimately it may not be correctable, but there are things he can do to give himself a better chance of delivering catchable balls more consistently; chief among them is acquiring patience in the pocket and trying to re-establish a more stable platform before throwing. He tends to get a bit jittery at times and that's when his lower body mechanics suffer the most. GO BILLS!!! Edited September 24, 2014 by K-9
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Are you asserting that no other NFL team has WRs that clap, and throw their hands up when they dont get the ball? Only us, and it must mean they have lost faith in EJ? I am not familiar with many NFL teams where the receivers' disdain is directed at the QB at the completion of a play. If it happens, it's usually an isolated incident, not separate reactions from the entire receiving corps That one play is horrific on many levels, Hackett calls a great play, where SD bites on play action, 3 Bills' receivers are open in the same planar view for EJ. He pump fakes to an open Chandler, while Big Mike clearly gets behind the double coverage. Yet EJ inexplicably pulls the ball down and in between deciding to run or pass, dumps off a wild throw that misses Woods by a mile who's only a couple of yards away from him. To me Woods' reaction at the end of the play was very telling. It wasn't just anger at the missed pass, but also, why were you throwing to me in the first place? If that play doesn't bring back memories of JP and Josh Reed, I don't know what does. Edited September 24, 2014 by GG
K-9 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The players around EJ have gotten better. If it were just about decision-making, it would be acceptable. It's primarily about inaccuracy. Not sure how that is correctable. And they are gonna have their share of crap days as well. It happens. GO BILLS!!!
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 And, again, I think it's quite the leap to assume that frustration after a botched play means locker room mutiny. Want me to admit they look frustrated? Fine. They look frustrated, With themselves? With the QB? With the refs? The playcall? I don't profess to be certain WHAT they're frustrated by. See above. So what's your explanation for Marrone giving Woods a time out this summer?
K-9 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The patient crowd claims Tuel sucked after 1.3 games as an UDFA. We're all hypocrites. Count me out of that group. I thought Tuel sucked the first time I saw tape of him. That was confirmed when I saw a few days of camp last year. He's painful to watch. GO BILLS!!!
DrDawkinstein Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 I am not familiar with many NFL teams where the receivers' disdain is directed at the QB at the completion of a play. If it happens, it's usually an isolated incident, not separate reactions from the entire receiving corps You are certainly putting a lot of your own emotions into the actions of other people. I'll give you some frustration, which is obvious. But think you are taking it too far in your assumptions. Plenty of WRs B word and moan about not getting the ball, and on a regular basis. Ask Shannon Sharpe about how he used to jaw at Elway about being open. Different situations, sure, but we've all seen plenty of WRs getting frustrated about not being seen when open. Ironically, while you say the WRs have lost faith because they arent being thrown to, other posters are excusing the WR's lack of effort when they ARE thrown to. Sammy took plays off, Woods didnt look for the ball in time. Apparently, EJ is the only one who can do any wrong to some of you. It's a team sport though. The whole Offense needs to get it's act together. Not just the QB, or OL, or WRs. All of them.
K-9 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Only in my mind. PS, watch not only Chandler's reaction but Woods after that play. That is some imaginary stuff I'm making up. I've seen these same reactions from receivers since I started watching football critically 40 some odd years ago. There have even been times when it festered on the sidelines and even into the next week. Is there any evidence of this occurring between EJ and his receivers? Not saying the potential isn't there as it's ALWAYS there, but I haven't seen or heard of anything to suggest Sunday's frustrations have carried over. GO BILLS!!!
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 See above. So what's your explanation for Marrone giving Woods a time out this summer? What's the point in either of us "explaining" it? Neither of us know for sure. So I could make up some ridiculous explanation and it'd be just as valid as yours. My critique of your position this whole time is the utter lack of supporting facts you have to substantiate it. Everything you've cited is entirely circumstantial.
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Ironically, while you say the WRs have lost faith because they arent being thrown to, other posters are excusing the WR's lack of effort when they ARE thrown to. Sammy took plays off, Woods didnt look for the ball in time. Apparently, EJ is the only one who can do any wrong to some of you. It's a team sport though. The whole Offense needs to get it's act together. Not just the QB, or OL, or WRs. All of them. Where did I ever say that the WRs have lost faith because they arent being thrown to? I've claimed the opposite. They are frustrated because the passes intended for them are either in a different area code or are bound to get them killed. EJ is the only guy who touches the ball on every offensive snap, and he's the one who determines where the ball is going to go and how it gets there. That's why there's bigger microscope over his play. What's the point in either of us "explaining" it? Neither of us know for sure. So I could make up some ridiculous explanation and it'd be just as valid as yours. My critique of your position this whole time is the utter lack of supporting facts you have to substantiate it. Everything you've cited is entirely circumstantial. Yup, beat reporters just like to make stuff up.
negativo Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Same people who defend EJ today were also apologists for Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, JP Losman, Trent Green, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. Arguments are futile. Better to just express opinions and move along than get bogged down in a circular game of "show me indisputable evidence to prove opinions formed by watching with your own two eyes."
The Big Cat Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Where did I ever say that the WRs have lost faith because they arent being thrown to? I've claimed the opposite. They are frustrated because the passes intended for them are either in a different area code or are bound to get them killed. EJ is the only guy who touches the ball on every offensive snap, and he's the one who determines where the ball is going to go and how it gets there. That's why there's bigger microscope over his play. Yup, beat reporters just like to make stuff up. Please link to this stuff. And please demonstrate that the stuff you're referring to is in no way shape or form commonplace in the relationships between QB's and receivers.
DrDawkinstein Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Please link to this stuff. And please demonstrate that the stuff you're referring to is in no way shape or form commonplace in the relationships between QB's and receivers. Shannon Sharpe loves to tell stories about him always yelling at Elway for not getting him the ball when he was open (on every single play). Oh, the disdain he must have had for his QB!
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