26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 We should quit using other QBs as reasons why EJ will or wont succeed. EJ will fail or succeed based on EJ, not based on Drew Brees or John Elway... Right now I see a QB who's big, and fast with a deep arm. But I also see an inaccurate QB who can't read a defense, hurries his throws, and doesn't make enough plays. I don't see any reason to believe that his accuracy will improve. Accuracy is either something you've got or you don't -- and by accuracy I mean the ability to put the ball where you want it. You can be accurate and throw interceptions if you're not reading the field properly...but QB's don't just become accurate by coaching. There's this idea that EJ just needs more time to become accurate. No. If EJ was ever going to be accurate he'd be so by now. EJ was what Buddy Nix saw as the best of a bad situation. Buddy whiffed. There's no need to dedicate our playoffs hopes to failure because 'that's what you're supposed to do' or because 'we all knew EJ was a project from the beginning'. How many ways can you post that you've come to the conclusion that EJ's not good enough and can never improve? Not that you're correct in your observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) This idea that EJ will never improve is kind of odd to me... Last year: 58.8% / 6.44 YPA / 1.2 TD to INT ratio This year: 63.2% / 7.05 YPA / 3.0 TD to INT ratio Is this good enough to be top 10? No. But I think it's pretty clear that he's progressing on average. He had a crap game against the Chargers, but the first two games of the season were very good. There's 13 more games this season, and we're 2-1, with some very winnable games in front of us. I don't understand all the finality in discussing things. Edited September 24, 2014 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 How many ways can you post that you've come to the conclusion that EJ's not good enough and can never improve? Not that you're correct in your observation. EJ will improve. I just don't believe his ceiling is high enough to succeed. And I can do it A LOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 To us EJ Bashers.... we are right. At some point the repeated QB apologists will wake up and realize since Kelly we haven't ever fielded a guy that was truly a Starting NFL QB (Even bledsoe in his old age was really nothing more than a backup) This idea that EJ will never improve is kind of odd to me... Last year: 58.8% / 6.44 YPA / 1.2 TD to INT ratio This year: 63.2% / 7.05 YPA / 3.0 TD to INT ratio Is this good enough to be top 10? No. But I think it's pretty clear that he's progressing on average. He had a crap game against the Chargers, but the first two games of the season were very good. There's 13 more games this season, and we're 2-1, with some very winnable games in front of us. I don't understand all the finality in discussing things. Funny didn't trent have off the chart Completion %? Again stats do lie. EJ is captain checkdown II, he is a liability esp. in the redzone. 3-1 TD/int rating? When he has 30 TD's and just 10 INT's then you can possibly use that stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Highly likely. Which still puzzles me why Whaley didn't take a flyer on Murray or Mettenberger this year. Preach on Brother G, preach on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 To us EJ Bashers.... we are right. At some point the repeated QB apologists will wake up and realize since Kelly we haven't ever fielded a guy that was truly a Starting NFL QB (Even bledsoe in his old age was really nothing more than a backup) Funny didn't trent have off the chart Completion %? Again stats do lie. EJ is captain checkdown II, he is a liability esp. in the redzone. 3-1 TD/int rating? When he has 30 TD's and just 10 INT's then you can possibly use that stat. So EJ is getting worse/not improving, because stats lie. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Aaron Rodgers says hi. Drew Brees missed the bus, barely, but is also present. Rodgers cannot be considered a "project." He played behind a great talent. You, me, even K-9 can't predict how Rodgers would have performed if he started week 1 of his rookie year forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 EJ will improve. I just don't believe his ceiling is high enough to succeed. And I can do it A LOT! As previously demonstrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Rodgers cannot be considered a "project." He played behind a great talent. You, me, even K-9 can't predict how Rodgers would have performed if he started week 1 of his rookie year forward. I'm going to keep hammering on this, but McCarthy's work with him really suggests he was a project. Maybe he would have been a MOR QB without the extra work, but he was definitely unremarkable in spot duty his first two seasons. As previously demonstrated. WHOAH, THERE'S A DEAD HORSE EMOTICON!!!!1! THIS THREAD IS FINALLY WORTH IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 So EJ is getting worse/not improving, because stats lie. Got it. The players around EJ have gotten better. If it were just about decision-making, it would be acceptable. It's primarily about inaccuracy. Not sure how that is correctable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 EJ ain't got it. He didn't have it at FSU, doesn't have it now, and never will have it. Watch him play. Tentative running, tentative throwing, tentative decision making, poor touch, poor accuracy...this is stuff that can't be taught. He's just a soft, tentative player with a soft, tentative personality with no leadership skills. If he made mistakes of aggression, threw some ill-advised passes into misread coverage, but was also creating some big plays and showing toughness I'd be more forgiving. This was a terrible mistake by Whaley. He liked the big body, big hands, and strong interview skills, but none of that crap really matters if the rest ain't there. EJ will be lucky to be holding a clipboard in the league 2 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 WHOAH, THERE'S A DEAD HORSE EMOTICON!!!!1! THIS THREAD IS FINALLY WORTH IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 The players around EJ have gotten better. Ah ha! Perfect! You guys are really good at this circular logic stuff. It's pretty entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 EJ ain't got it. He didn't have it at FSU, doesn't have it now, and never will have it. Watch him play. Tentative running, tentative throwing, tentative decision making, poor touch, poor accuracy...this is stuff that can't be taught. He's just a soft, tentative player with a soft, tentative personality with no leadership skills. You're making a soft, tentative case with no evidence. If he made mistakes of aggression, threw some ill-advised passes into misread coverage, but was also creating some big plays and showing toughness I'd be more forgiving. So the Chandler big plays, this week and last, were not aggressive and tough? C'mon. Is that a lockgroove record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Is that a lockgroove record? Yepper! Edited September 24, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm going to keep hammering on this, but McCarthy's work with him really suggests he was a project. Maybe he would have been a MOR QB without the extra work, but he was definitely unremarkable in spot duty his first two seasons. Hammer all you like, but, you don't know...you believe... Interesting that you can judge Rodgers on "spot duty" but EJ shouldn't be judged because he's "technically still a rookie" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). Because at the time Thad Lewis appeared to be a competent backup to who (or is it whom?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm going to keep hammering on this, but McCarthy's work with him really suggests he was a project. Maybe he would have been a MOR QB without the extra work, but he was definitely unremarkable in spot duty his first two seasons. Rodgers was a project. Rivers was a project. Brady was a project. etc. But it helps to quantify the work & time required to complete that project. For Rodgers, it was to fix his throwing motion, but he was NFL ready in all other aspects. Same for Rivers. Brady needed to build up his arm strength. Point is that all these guys had very limited deficiencies that could be worked on in time. The EJ project is a complete rebuild. He needs to relearn footwork, throwing motion, all the while understanding the feel of the QB position, on which he is far behind all these guys at the same point of their careers. This is not about showing stats of their first 12 games. It's about how they looked in the games. I recall Brady's second year, thinking that his early outings were a fluke and all that was needed was defenses going all out at him and he would fold. Guess what? Teams threw the kitchen sink at him, and he still made plays with an average receiving corps. When I look at EJ, the parallel I see is not the QBs that succeeded in the past, but an NFL version of Tim Connolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Hammer all you like, but, you don't know...you believe... Well, isn't it more important what Mike McCarthy believed? Interesting that you can judge Rodgers on "spot duty" but EJ shouldn't be judged because he's "technically still a rookie" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). I am not one of the "technically still a rookie" crowd, BB and you know this. I think EJ can be judged... to be a project! Rodgers was a project. Rivers was a project. Brady was a project. etc. But it helps to quantify the work & time required to complete that project. For Rodgers, it was to fix his throwing motion, but he was NFL ready in all other aspects. Same for Rivers. Brady needed to build up his arm strength. Point is that all these guys had very limited deficiencies that could be worked on in time. The EJ project is a complete rebuild. He needs to relearn footwork, throwing motion, all the while understanding the feel of the QB position, on which he is far behind all these guys at the same point of their careers. This is not about showing stats of their first 12 games. It's about how they looked in the games. I recall Brady's second year, thinking that his early outings were a fluke and all that was needed was defenses going all out at him and he would fold. Guess what? Teams threw the kitchen sink at him, and he still made plays with an average receiving corps. When I look at EJ, the parallel I see is not the QBs that succeeded in the past, but an NFL version of Tim Connolly. And even if I disagree with some of the assessments, I think this is a very, very fair way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Rogers was absolutely a project.....he did not look good in pre season when given his opportunites. He was just in a good situation behind Farve "if only he was taller".....if its and buts were candy and nuts So, his rookie preseason, of which most of us saw zero snaps, gives you enough to prove that he was a project. The QB playing in front of him had nothing to do with Aaron watching from the sidelines. I say again...why can you (how many of his rookie year preseason snaps did you see?) make a decision on Rogers after less than a handful of games but we must be patient with EJ and there's no way someone can make up their mind about a QB who is "essentially still a rookie?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Maybe we should ask the Green Bay fan that from time to time posts in this board, can't remember his name, it would be interesting to see his view/opinion on Rodgers' progression as a QB. Edited September 24, 2014 by Fixxxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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