To all of the EJ bashers

[DC Tom]

Actually, If you really want to get into this. The Sabres at first tried to pay expensive vets Leino and Ehrhoff to try to vault the Sabres to success. They failed miserably. Now they are doing the patient thing and building with prospects

 

Apply that to the Bills and the expensive vet is Orton and that prospect is EJ....

 

History has been served.

 

{drops mic, walks off stage}

 

Not an exact analogy, since Pegula acquired the Sabres as perennial competitors, and was trying to get them "over the hump." Patience was not necessarily a virtue in that situation. It's only when that failed that he blew the team up and started "from scratch."

 

The Bills haven't been a competitor in 14 years. Blowing this team up would be redundant.

[JPS]

Really?? They are projected to be a last place team....again. Great plan.

[CountDorkula]

Really?? They are projected to be a last place team....again. Great plan.

You should really learn the Names Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel.... But back to football.

[JPS]

And they'll be near last place AGAIN next year even if they get either of St. Connor or St. Jack. But yeah...back to football. Saying Pegula's "patience" with Regier paid off because they now suck enough to draft a generational talent is just illogical. I wouldn't base any expected patience that.

[GG]

And they'll be near last place AGAIN next year even if they get either of St. Connor or St. Jack. But yeah...back to football. Saying Pegula's "patience" with Regier paid off because they now suck enough to draft a generational talent is just illogical. I wouldn't base any expected patience that.

 

Next year, as in 2015-2016? Highly doubtful.

[Solomon Grundy]

To help EJ and the offense the Bills need a competent TE. Every good QBS in the league has a competent TE. Chandler makes too many blunders, i.e. Penalties, drops, fumbles, misreading defenses

Edited September 23, 2014 by the skycap

[John from Riverside]

I've discussed this a lot, so to recap. The Bills have mismanaged the position seemingly for an eternity, but more recently how they handled the Fitzpatrick contract was horrible.

 

They were too cavalier with Fitz, when it was obvious that he would immediately become the best available back up QB on the market.

 

Giving Fitz that contract was a stupid move....I dont think anyone is gonna argue with that. But that was a former regime.

the Bills had nobody behind him on the roster, they didn't make the trade for Alex Smith, and it was the weakest draft for QBs in a decade.

 

I know that in madden trades happen easily......but lets try to keep in mind we are not the only team vying for a player in a trade or whatever.....sometimes we just lose out. It happens.

Those were all knowns in the spring of 2013. Yet, the Bills in a huffy fit released Fitzpatrick.

 

At the time of that.....people were clamoring for drafting a QB because Fitz was crapping the bed.....Fitz didnt want to deal with having to fight for the position

 

Then they forced the EJ pick, who was a know project and signed the last remaining, but bad veteran QB in Kolb.

 

Kolb was not a "bad" veteran QB....he was a oft injured QB who had some some games. Once again a bad bills gamble

Then with EJ struggling mightily with uneven play and injuries, and his backups looking mediocre at best, they were content to go into the summer with the same sad crew.

 

The injuries and the uneven play would go hand in hand no? His rookie season was interuppted. Backs were mediocre because the seasons petted starter Kolb got concussed. Was there a mistake in not continuing to look for another QB solution at that time? Yes....but who?

 

Only to be forced to pay top dollar to cajole Orton out of "retirement"\

 

The fact that they paid top dollar is not our concern.....it has been widely reported that the bills had been after Orton for a while.....and they did in fact do the right thing by brining in a good backup QB

In the end, between Kolb, Orton, & balance of Fitz contract they are paying out way more than if they kept Fitzpatrick, and having a weaker roster.

 

I would say that the QB roster is in fact STRONGER with EJ and Orton.....I would like to see us bring in a 3rd deveopmental guy.

 

And here we are nowhere closer to finding whether EJ is the answer or not

 

Thus far...the question has still not been answered.....what were the great solutions out there during this period of time that would have solved our problem? I see one.....your gonna base your arguement over one quarterback?

And if he isn't, this team likely forfeited a high draft choice next year, and didn't add another developmental arm to camp.

 

Key being developmental....as in might pan out might now.....as in not the answer

 

So if, EJ isn't the answer, they waste 2015 in bringing the new guy along, as opposed to at least having the guy on the roster (like Murray & Mettenberg) to see if he could be the guy. You know, like Andy Reid's plan.

 

You are proposing that Murray or Mettenberg are the answer provided we develop them...when in fact they were drafted too late to really be considered as such

 

So, tell me at which point an average fan wouldn't have made a better decision for the most important position on the team?

 

So allow me to say it again......what choice did we totally screw up on that puts us in a better QB position then we are right now. Because the options were limited and we are not drafting high enough to get Cam, or RG III, or Luck......the bills took a QB with a great winning percentage in college with all world measurables who won bowl games at a highly rated college school.......with enough warts that they could get him mid round (lets be real here....if EJ didnt have warts we dont have a shot at him just like we didnt have shot at Cam, or RGIII, or Luck)

 

They took their QB with a lot of potential and measurables and they started to develop him. It was not the WRONG call....it was as right as any other choice they had on the table.

 

Ideally, I'd have Manuel on the bench for three years, watching a veteran play. Failing that, I'd do exactly what the staff is doing this year: put him in a position to execute a conservative game, and minimize the chances of breaking him. I'd have done that last year...but it's nearly impossible to get any sort of consistent performance or development out of someone who's work is consistently interrupted as it was. I also wouldn't be afraid to bench him for a week or two, with the clear explanation to everyone of "You're head space is completely !@#$ed up right now; you need a break to regain your perspective" (and it's shocking how effective that practice can be - I've seen people take sudden leaps in competence after that sort of "forced change of perspective," after they've had down-time to synthesize lessons and suddenly everything clicks.)

 

And then, if he's not making consistent (note: not constant. There's a difference) progress within a reasonable amount of time (a solid season and a half of starting, in this case)...kick him to the curb without hesitation.

 

 

That's what I'd do - hell, that's what I have done, developing talent in my own industry. It actually works very well, maximizing the likelihood of getting a productive worker while minimizing the chances you'll make a blisteringly stupid decision reacting to inevitable mistakes. And that's what's really at work here: people who've clearly never professionally managed someone before who can't accept that talent isn't born fully-formed from the head of Zeus but might actually require development.

 

Man...this post was better then your last one even

[The_Dude]

 

 

So allow me to say it again......what choice did we totally screw up on that puts us in a better QB position then we are right now. Because the options were limited and we are not drafting high enough to get Cam, or RG III, or Luck......the bills took a QB with a great winning percentage in college with all world measurables who won bowl games at a highly rated college school.......with enough warts that they could get him mid round (lets be real here....if EJ didnt have warts we dont have a shot at him just like we didnt have shot at Cam, or RGIII, or Luck)

 

They took their QB with a lot of potential and measurables and they started to develop him. It was not the WRONG call....it was as right as any other choice they had on the table.

 

 

 

Man...this post was better then your last one even

 

Johnny, stop with the hypotheticals... Who cares about them. Here's the deal, we have a talented team and a question mark at quarterback. Behind that question mark we have a known commodity in a solid veteran quarterback. Doug's coaching for his career. Who would you go with if you were Doug?

[John from Riverside]

Johnny, stop with the hypotheticals... Who cares about them. Here's the deal, we have a talented team and a question mark at quarterback. Behind that question mark we have a known commodity in a solid veteran quarterback. Doug's coaching for his career. Who would you go with if you were Doug?

 

Dud......hypotheticals are being discussed because there is supposidly some sort of hypothetical plan of having a better starting QB then we do (even though it isnt true)

 

Doug is gonna go with the QB that was drafted when he was brought in.....the bills were smart to bring in Orton in case of injury but if you think at 2-1 they are making a QB change your very very dillusional.

[GG]

So allow me to say it again......what choice did we totally screw up on that puts us in a better QB position then we are right now. Because the options were limited and we are not drafting high enough to get Cam, or RG III, or Luck......the bills took a QB with a great winning percentage in college with all world measurables who won bowl games at a highly rated college school.......with enough warts that they could get him mid round (lets be real here....if EJ didnt have warts we dont have a shot at him just like we didnt have shot at Cam, or RGIII, or Luck)

 

They took their QB with a lot of potential and measurables and they started to develop him. It was not the WRONG call....it was as right as any other choice they had on the table.

 

.....

 

Man...this post was better then your last one even

 

Pick a spot, did the Bills have no choice or have they mishandled the position? You can't disagree with me and then laud Tom.

 

Bills crapped the bed starting with handling Fitzpatrick's situation. Who cares that he didn't want to compete with a rookie? He was under contract for 3 more years at a decent salary for a backup. He was going to do what the coach told him to do. I did not disagree with Bills drafting Manuel. But everything they've done leading up to the pick and subsequently has blown up in their face, and a lot of it was self-imposed.

 

And now you can't just look at bringing Manuel along in a vacuum. There are 52 other guys who want to win now. There are 4 guys out in the field that are getting killed while EJ is going through his learning pains. He does not seem to have teammates' unconditional support. He needs to turn it around fast, because it's not just the fans who are losing patience.

[The_Dude]

 

 

Dud......hypotheticals are being discussed because there is supposidly some sort of hypothetical plan of having a better starting QB then we do (even though it isnt true)

 

Doug is gonna go with the QB that was drafted when he was brought in.....the bills were smart to bring in Orton in case of injury but if you think at 2-1 they are making a QB change your very very dillusional.

 

I think another couple games like Sunday and that's the end of EJ.

 

Do you not get that even if the master plan were to give EJ time to develop that ended when Ralph died? There's no reason for Pegula to keep a losing front office and coach and every reason to oust them. There's no reason if EJ isn't a bust that this team can't make the playoffs. It's the end of the Doug's if they don't make the playoffs so that changes the conventional wisdom of giving EJ time. Times almost up unless he starts killing it.

[John from Riverside]

Pick a spot, did the Bills have no choice or have they mishandled the position? You can't disagree with me and then laud Tom.

 

Bills crapped the bed starting with handling Fitzpatrick's situation. Who cares that he didn't want to compete with a rookie? He was under contract for 3 more years at a decent salary for a backup. He was going to do what the coach told him to do. I did not disagree with Bills drafting Manuel. But everything they've done leading up to the pick and subsequently has blown up in their face, and a lot of it was self-imposed.

 

Fitz didnt want to be here....so they released him and got what they perceived to be a equal talent player in Kolb (we will never know if this is true cuz he took another concussion)

 

And now you can't just look at bringing Manuel along in a vacuum. There are 52 other guys who want to win now. There are 4 guys out in the field that are getting killed while EJ is going through his learning pains. He does not seem to have teammates' unconditional support. He needs to turn it around fast, because it's not just the fans who are losing patience.

 

I hate to bring up this undisputable fact....but they ARE WINNING....they are in fact 2-1....on top of the division.

 

I think another couple games like Sunday and that's the end of EJ.

 

Do you not get that even if the master plan were to give EJ time to develop that ended when Ralph died? There's no reason for Pegula to keep a losing front office and coach and every reason to oust them. There's no reason if EJ isn't a bust that this team can't make the playoffs. It's the end of the Doug's if they don't make the playoffs so that changes the conventional wisdom of giving EJ time. Times almost up unless he starts killing it.

 

So now we are hypthetically talking about if he loses 2 more games in a row? Because we are in fact 2-1 and one game shouldnt automatically bring out the doom and gloom beating stick.

 

Are you somehow thinking that Kim Pegula is gonna walk in after the NFL owers approve the sale go up to EJ Manuel and do her best YOOOOOUR FIIIIIIIIRRRRED Vince McMahan immitation? EJ gets the season....unless he just totally craps the bed and there is nothing so far that points to that happening.

Edited September 23, 2014 by John from Hemet

[Garranimal]

A good historical threshold is 1,000 pass attempts.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Cool, so Tebow is owed 600 or so more attempts!

[Big Gun]

I'll take "there isn't one"?

 

The magic number is the number of games it takes for them to find someone better. That person does not exist right now, despite protestations to the contrary and Orton's presence on the roster for all of 4 weeks, without a training camp.

 

How do you know this? How many times have you watched and studied Ortons play to come to this conclusion? I personally think Orton would perform lightyears better than EJ has ever performed.

 

They drafted Goodwin, Woods, Watkins and signed Williams for EJ. They went so out of their way to get him the necessary pieces to succeed and what does he do? Nothing but dump the ball of to the oldest RB in the league. C'mon if you can't see EJ is the problem it's on you.

[What a Tuel]

Dud......hypotheticals are being discussed because there is supposidly some sort of hypothetical plan of having a better starting QB then we do (even though it isnt true)

 

Doug is gonna go with the QB that was drafted when he was brought in.....the bills were smart to bring in Orton in case of injury but if you think at 2-1 they are making a QB change your very very dillusional.

 

They are also delusional if they think Orton is the answer. He is a great veteran backup but there is a reason he has played like 21 games in the last four seasons and is 6-15 across 3 teams.

[John from Riverside]

How do you know this? How many times have you watched and studied Ortons play to come to this conclusion? I personally think Orton would perform lightyears better than EJ has ever performed.

 

They drafted Goodwin, Woods, Watkins and signed Williams for EJ. They went so out of their way to get him the necessary pieces to succeed and what does he do? Nothing but dump the ball of to the oldest RB in the league. C'mon if you can't see EJ is the problem it's on you.

 

Given your past posts.....is it really suprising that you feel the backup QB could play better then EJ Manuel

 

personally....I think some of you would take just about anyone athlete or not over EJ Manuel

[The_Dude]

 

 

I hate to bring up this undisputable fact....but they ARE WINNING....they are in fact 2-1....on top of the division.

 

 

 

So now we are hypthetically talking about if he loses 2 more games in a row? Because we are in fact 2-1 and one game shouldnt automatically bring out the doom and gloom beating stick.

 

Are you somehow thinking that Kim Pegula is gonna walk in after the NFL owers approve the sale go up to EJ Manuel and do her best YOOOOOUR FIIIIIIIIRRRRED Vince McMahan immitation? EJ gets the season....unless he just totally craps the bed and there is nothing so far that points to that happening.

 

Your ridiculous bait and switch of my argument won't work.

 

I'm not suggesting Pegula will cut EJ after he's officially the owner. I'm suggesting that then is paying over a billion dollars for this team and people who spend that kind of money typically want their hand picked people running their investment. I'm suggesting that it's very reasonable to assume that if the Bills don't make the playoffs the they'll have no case to make to Pegula to retain their jobs. I'm suggesting that because of those unproven, but extremely reasonable assumptions that it'd be wiser for the Doug's to start Orton if EJ doesn't get it together.

 

We're 2-1. That's not shabby. We beat the freaking Bears! But here's the thing, did we beat the Bears or did we catch them sleeping? Did they just not know how to play us? The Chargers, a very talented team no doubt, did know how to play us.... Now was the first two weeks really what we are on offense or is this past Sunday? That I do not know. But I am personally sold on EJ not being the guy.

[John from Riverside]

They are also delusional if they think Orton is the answer. He is a great veteran backup but there is a reason he has played like 21 games in the last four seasons and is 6-15 across 3 teams.

 

I honestly am not going to say that Orton woudnt come in and do a good job. Given that we are won hit away from it I certainly hope so

 

But that really is not my point.....Kyle Orton is NOT the long term answer in Buffalo........and we dont have a 1st round pick next year. People should really HOPE that EJ IS the answer

[GG]

I hate to bring up this undisputable fact....but they ARE WINNING....they are in fact 2-1....on top of the division.

 

Why do you think they're back on the hot seat after one bad outing? It's because still EJ hasn't shown enough consistency to ward off criticism. And his faults are still nearly identical to last year. He doesn't feel comfortable in the pocket, bails out on plays and has serious accuracy issues. AFAIK, none of the QBs who are served up as examples that they got better over time had so many flaws they needed to fix. EJ may be a three year project in an era where he doesn't get three years to prove himself.

[What a Tuel]

I honestly am not going to say that Orton woudnt come in and do a good job. Given that we are won hit away from it I certainly hope so

 

But that really is not my point.....Kyle Orton is NOT the long term answer in Buffalo........and we dont have a 1st round pick next year. People should really HOPE that EJ IS the answer

 

Oh I agree, that's why I said he was a good veteran backup. But I think people are putting their hopes in a bench guy who isn't going to turn out to be the QB we all know they want and crave.

 

It is going to go from "Put Orton in, EJ sucks" to "Good thing we gave our 1st round pick away, now we will suck for 3 more years!" when Orton doesn't Peyton Manning his way to the post season. (Of course we would hope he would though!)

Edited September 23, 2014 by What a Tuel