papazoid Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 i know this is crazy talk...but what happens if we lose to houston and EJ plays like he did vs san diego ?
DrDawkinstein Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 i know this is crazy talk...but what happens if we lose to houston and EJ plays like he did vs san diego ? Then the board will scream and cry and threads will be made and closed and everyone will tune in for the next game as life goes on this season. I think he'd have to string together 4-5 horrible losses in a row before he gets benched.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Some civility please. Another 50-plus pages of this won't change where we are. EJ is our QB for the foreseeable future and like it or not, we have a front row seat to his maturation or his demise. Enjoy the positives and B word at the negatives-that's our right as fans. Right now I'm bitching, but in perspective. I still believe this still can work with EJ. I also believe it can go south in a major way. We have to play this out and getting nasty with each other doesn't seem to be a constructive thing to be doing. You
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 "Cam Newton did" Cam Newton has showed more then his fair share of mistakes since he has been in the league......and take a look at that team......strong defense......a stable of running backs.....christ it almost looks like US. And by the way putting the game on Cams shoulders has not shown to be getting the job done. For christ sake his veteran backup comes in and moves that team this year. RGIII......are we really going to throw RGIII into this equation? The guy cant stay healthy.....and once again a situation where his backup has now come in and probably wont relinquish that starting role.....RGIII is probably on the trading block. And then their is Andrew Luck......the number 1 overall pick that the colts completely tanked a season to get to.....and EJ Manuel a mid 1st round pick is supposed to be held to that standard...... I dont understand why YOU dont understand that this is obviously the team scheme....they know Manuel is a project with huge upside so all they want him to do right now is not LOSE games....that is not a knock on EJ Manuel the player that is what the bills are doing ON PURPOSE. Take a look at Gino last night.....yeah he slings it......to the other team. Gino makes poor decisions. The jets are backing him up with a very good defense and he just throws the ball to the other team for losses. Keep in mind that EJ BEAT the team last night that GINO lost to. And they did it by protecting the football and not losing the turnover ratio. I knew it was a matter of time before you started beating the "lets play Orton" drum......even though the team is 2-1 and EJ has actually shown obvious improvement from last year you want to sit him and bring in a very good backup (average starter) and kill any progress that EJ Manuel has made. This team needs to think longer term then that.....they dont need a few wins now so they can be right back where they started next year. They need to groom this young QB and actually have a VIABLE starter next year (hopefully we can hang onto Orton as a backup)....they need EJ to CONTINUE to progress just like he has been. One bad game does not take away from the fact that EJ is better at his deep throws....better at his sideline throws....is making better decisions....is not making taking stupid hits that would knock him out of the game and derail his season...is throwing receivers open.......basically....EJ Manuel over the course of 3 games has shown to be a better quarterback then last year. Improvement of a QB is not based on a flow chart that shows the exact improvement week to week.....it has hills and valleys. last week was a valley......the 1st two weeks were hills. Just because he isnt slinging the rock all over the field does not mean that he hasnt shown obvious improvement. Ok...not to be rude but I quit reading after you started out the way you did. You can't validate EJ by tearing down the accomplishments of first round QBs preceding him. Moving on, we'd all be on the EJ bandwagon if he showed as much as Andy Dalton did his rookie year but I suppose you'll say I'm being unreasonable there too. And to the 'EJ was a project' bs...you DONT draft projects in the first round. Never.
Kemp Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I agree that the notion of drafting a project in Round 1 is stupid. Curious if everyone can agree upon that unless EJ is markedly improved by the end of this season that he will not be the starter here next season.
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I agree that the notion of drafting a project in Round 1 is stupid. Curious if everyone can agree upon that unless EJ is markedly improved by the end of this season that he will not be the starter here next season. I would think that's the case--or in the very least, he'll have to compete for the job with another starting-caliber prospect or veteran.
GG Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I would think that's the case--or in the very least, he'll have to compete for the job with another starting-caliber prospect or veteran. Highly likely. Which still puzzles me why Whaley didn't take a flyer on Murray or Mettenberger this year.
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I agree that the notion of drafting a project in Round 1 is stupid. Curious if everyone can agree upon that unless EJ is markedly improved by the end of this season that he will not be the starter here next season. Unless he improves quickly I see Orton starting sooner rather than later. If the Dougs don't make the playoffs then they're done. Pegula will want to bring in his own guys anyways...the Dougs are literally on the hot seat. There's no time to 'develop' a QB...They HAVE to win now.
GunnerBill Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Curious if everyone can agree upon that unless EJ is markedly improved by the end of this season that he will not be the starter here next season. I think if he played like he did the first 2 games for 10 games with 3 stinkers and 3 very good games mixed in he would be the starter next season. If he plays like vs San Diego every week he will be benched by week 8. I think the other thing to consider here is that the Bills with no 1st rounder have limited options for replacing EJ next year even if he does underwhelm the rest of the way. If the Giants cut Eli (which I do think is a possibility if they have a 6-10 or worse season) then you could consider him, beyond that I'm not sure I see any half decent proven vet hitting the market. Just a load of bottom of the pile QBs like Cassel and Henne and I'd rather stick with EJ and hope it clicks given that scenario. They could draft another guy with their 2nd round pick or by trading up into the late 1st.... and start over, which might be an option, but then you have the rookie growing pains again next year (which I'm not necessarily against but that is the truth of it).
Big Gun Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 "Cam Newton did" Cam Newton has showed more then his fair share of mistakes since he has been in the league......and take a look at that team......strong defense......a stable of running backs.....christ it almost looks like US. And by the way putting the game on Cams shoulders has not shown to be getting the job done. For christ sake his veteran backup comes in and moves that team this year. RGIII......are we really going to throw RGIII into this equation? The guy cant stay healthy.....and once again a situation where his backup has now come in and probably wont relinquish that starting role.....RGIII is probably on the trading block. And then their is Andrew Luck......the number 1 overall pick that the colts completely tanked a season to get to.....and EJ Manuel a mid 1st round pick is supposed to be held to that standard...... I dont understand why YOU dont understand that this is obviously the team scheme....they know Manuel is a project with huge upside so all they want him to do right now is not LOSE games....that is not a knock on EJ Manuel the player that is what the bills are doing ON PURPOSE. Take a look at Gino last night.....yeah he slings it......to the other team. Gino makes poor decisions. The jets are backing him up with a very good defense and he just throws the ball to the other team for losses. Keep in mind that EJ BEAT the team last night that GINO lost to. And they did it by protecting the football and not losing the turnover ratio. I knew it was a matter of time before you started beating the "lets play Orton" drum......even though the team is 2-1 and EJ has actually shown obvious improvement from last year you want to sit him and bring in a very good backup (average starter) and kill any progress that EJ Manuel has made. This team needs to think longer term then that.....they dont need a few wins now so they can be right back where they started next year. They need to groom this young QB and actually have a VIABLE starter next year (hopefully we can hang onto Orton as a backup)....they need EJ to CONTINUE to progress just like he has been. One bad game does not take away from the fact that EJ is better at his deep throws....better at his sideline throws....is making better decisions....is not making taking stupid hits that would knock him out of the game and derail his season...is throwing receivers open.......basically....EJ Manuel over the course of 3 games has shown to be a better quarterback then last year. Improvement of a QB is not based on a flow chart that shows the exact improvement week to week.....it has hills and valleys. last week was a valley......the 1st two weeks were hills. Just because he isnt slinging the rock all over the field does not mean that he hasnt shown obvious improvement. I see, so it's all EJ when the Bills win, and it's a "team loss" when the Bills lose. Gotcha My gawd ignorance is bliss!
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I see, so it's all EJ when the Bills win, and it's a "team loss" when the Bills lose. Gotcha My gawd ignorance is bliss! Dripping with irony.
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Dripping with irony. EJ sucks, nothing will ever change that. the reason it was windy on Sunday is because EJ sucks. VIVA LE DEREK ANDERSON!!!!!
FireChan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 EJ sucks, nothing will ever change that. the reason it was windy on Sunday is because EJ sucks. VIVA LE DEREK ANDERSON!!!!! Eliminating common sense outliers, QBR makes a lot of sense as a statistical measure.
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Newton had one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history. What are you talking about? And then what? It seems to me that teams have figured him out a bit. What I am saying is throwing names like Luck, Newton, and RGIII (by the way we have NEVER drafted low enough to get any of those guys) when it comes to EJ Manuel is ridiculous
FireChan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) And then what? It seems to me that teams have figured him out a bit. What I am saying is throwing names like Luck, Newton, and RGIII (by the way we have NEVER drafted low enough to get any of those guys) when it comes to EJ Manuel is ridiculous Yes, Cam is so figured out with his 2013 pro-bowl appearance and divisional playoff appearance. The 2011 Panthers had way worse non-QB talent than the 2014 Bills. Edited September 23, 2014 by FireChan
K-9 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Is anyone seriously under the impression that the development of a QB is some sort of linear process? A steady ascendancy towards excellence? Sorry to break it to you, but there are gonna be some really poor performances mixed in among some very good ones along the way. This is unavoidable. It's the nature of athletics and team sports. Nobody in the history of sport has performed at peak level in every contest. It's all about how you bounce back from the poor ones that separate the best from everyone else. GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Eliminating common sense outliers, QBR makes a lot of sense as a statistical measure. It looks like it makes sense when enough of a body of work is considered; prior to a certain number of games it just appears scattered IMO.
sjjr Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 If the Bills win 8+ games and EJ starts more than 12 games overall, he is definitely the starter and QB of the franchise going forward. He is good enough to win games in the NFL and gives the Bills the best chance to win each week no question. When he came out last year, most people felt like he needed some time to develop but had to play because of what happened with Kolb. I thought he played better than expected last season. Not sure what people expect from him. This team is built to run the football, be physical and play strong D. The Bills are not going to put it up 40 times in game like Peyton Manning because that isn't their gameplan ever. He's accounted for 4 tds this season and 1 turnover. This team is not a come from behind team and EJ isn't a come from behind QB at this point. He's played winning football so far this season and showing improvement all the time. The Bills are 2-1, with a winnable game this Sunday. It's a long season, but closing out the first quarter of the season at 3-1 would be a good start. Let the kid play and Go Bills!
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Ok...not to be rude but I quit reading after you started out the way you did. You can't validate EJ by tearing down the accomplishments of first round QBs preceding him. Moving on, we'd all be on the EJ bandwagon if he showed as much as Andy Dalton did his rookie year but I suppose you'll say I'm being unreasonable there too. And to the 'EJ was a project' bs...you DONT draft projects in the first round. Never. You absolutely do draft projects in the 1st round and it happens all the time. I see, so it's all EJ when the Bills win, and it's a "team loss" when the Bills lose. Gotcha My gawd ignorance is bliss! OMG....is this really a retort? Ok...not to be rude but I quit reading after you started out the way you did. You can't validate EJ by tearing down the accomplishments of first round QBs preceding him. Moving on, we'd all be on the EJ bandwagon if he showed as much as Andy Dalton did his rookie year but I suppose you'll say I'm being unreasonable there too. And to the 'EJ was a project' bs...you DONT draft projects in the first round. Never. And you cant throw out prior QBs in EJ's face......especially ones that we had no shot at. Every situation is different.
buffaloaggie Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Drew Brees never took off in San Diego until they drafted Philip Rivers. Maybe E.J. needs some added motivation in the form of real competition. No matter what, the Bills need to draft another QB. I wish we had drafted Jimmy Garoppolo instead of Cyrus K. E.J. is not a good QB yet. Not giving up on him, but the frustration of him giving up on runs too early because he doesn't want to take a hit, not stepping into throws, and his just making bad decisions is growing.
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