The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Second in 1990, 91, 92, and 94, behind Reed (and ahead of Lofton in 90-92). And no...he never led, but you're the dumbass who was bitching that Fred Jackson was second in receptions. We disagree. You don't like my point...and so I'm a "dumbass"? Clever one you are. First, as one who doesn't put great emphasis on stats I'm not apt to look up stats from two decades ago. Second, Fred is currently leading in receptions..what I said is that he's second in total receiving yards. Learn to discuss with others politely I recommend. There's no need for all that. And it's also cowardly. Calling a man a dumbass is something that seems to only happen on the internet. I've never been called that when discussing sports in person. Why must everyone take such offense to disagreements on the interenet? You're ridiculous.
Rob's House Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 We disagree. You don't like my point...and so I'm a "dumbass"? Clever one you are. First, as one who doesn't put great emphasis on stats I'm not apt to look up stats from two decades ago. Second, Fred is currently leading in receptions..what I said is that he's second in total receiving yards. Learn to discuss with others politely I recommend. There's no need for all that. And it's also cowardly. Calling a man a dumbass is something that seems to only happen on the internet. I've never been called that when discussing sports in person. Why must everyone take such offense to disagreements on the interenet? You're ridiculous. Reminds me of my first interaction with Tom. Don't take it personally. Being called an idiot by Tom is something of a rite of passage around here.
Chef Jim Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 We disagree. You don't like my point...and so I'm a "dumbass"? Clever one you are. First, as one who doesn't put great emphasis on stats I'm not apt to look up stats from two decades ago. Second, Fred is currently leading in receptions..what I said is that he's second in total receiving yards. Learn to discuss with others politely I recommend. There's no need for all that. And it's also cowardly. Calling a man a dumbass is something that seems to only happen on the internet. I've never been called that when discussing sports in person. Why must everyone take such offense to disagreements on the interenet? You're ridiculous. I don't like your friends already.
Orton's Arm Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I recently read the explanation of how QBR works, basically. It strikes me as a pretty cool metric. No credit for garbage time! I like the fact QBR doesn't give you credit for garbage time. I'm gradually coming to adopt it as my favorite QB evaluation metric. They can, in context. Ignoring stats and only relying on your "eye" is just as incomplete of an analysis as only looking at stats. A complete and competent analysis takes quantitative and qualitative evidence into consideration. I think that you and I see eye to eye on this. However, it's worth bearing in mind that most of the people here haven't studied statistics, don't work with statistics, and don't have a strong grasp of statistics. As such, they don't have the statistical tools to defend themselves from the incorrect use of stats. Their main line of defense is the eyeball test. As I'm sure you're aware, plenty of stats can become distorted or inflated. A QB's completion percentage can be inflated by focusing on dump-off passes. His yards per season can be inflated if his offensive coordinator adopts a pass-happy offense. But you see statistics like those thrown around here all the time. A few years ago it was pointed out that Ryan Fitzpatrick was throwing for about as many yards per season as Jim Kelly. Lots of people here didn't see Fitzpatrick's performances as Kelly-like. But they were unable to come up with a good statistical counterargument. So they relied on the eyeball test. (As an aside, the correct statistical counterargument to the Kelly/Fitzpatrick comparison is that Kelly was in a run-heavy offense; whereas Fitzpatrick's head coach couldn't possibly have been more pass-happy. Passing yards per season is a distorted measuring tool which makes Kelly look worse than he should and Fitzpatrick look better than he should. However, Kelly had significantly more yards per pass attempt--correctly indicating Kelly to have been the better QB.) If you want people to use stats plus the eyeball test, that's fine. But then there needs to be an effort to teach people how to correctly use stats. Otherwise you'll get people comparing Rob Johnson's quarterback rating with Jim Kelly's, or Fitzpatrick's yards per season with Kelly's; and coming up with all sorts of nonsense.
Maury Ballstein Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Where's my Geno smith crowd at ? Pick city. Turnover machine.
dave mcbride Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I like the fact QBR doesn't give you credit for garbage time. I'm gradually coming to adopt it as my favorite QB evaluation metric. I think that you and I see eye to eye on this. However, it's worth bearing in mind that most of the people here haven't studied statistics, don't work with statistics, and don't have a strong grasp of statistics. As such, they don't have the statistical tools to defend themselves from the incorrect use of stats. Their main line of defense is the eyeball test. As I'm sure you're aware, plenty of stats can become distorted or inflated. A QB's completion percentage can be inflated by focusing on dump-off passes. His yards per season can be inflated if his offensive coordinator adopts a pass-happy offense. But you see statistics like those thrown around here all the time. A few years ago it was pointed out that Ryan Fitzpatrick was throwing for about as many yards per season as Jim Kelly. Lots of people here didn't see Fitzpatrick's performances as Kelly-like. But they were unable to come up with a good statistical counterargument. So they relied on the eyeball test. (As an aside, the correct statistical counterargument to the Kelly/Fitzpatrick comparison is that Kelly was in a run-heavy offense; whereas Fitzpatrick's head coach couldn't possibly have been more pass-happy. Passing yards per season is a distorted measuring tool which makes Kelly look worse than he should and Fitzpatrick look better than he should. However, Kelly had significantly more yards per pass attempt--correctly indicating Kelly to have been the better QB.) If you want people to use stats plus the eyeball test, that's fine. But then there needs to be an effort to teach people how to correctly use stats. Otherwise you'll get people comparing Rob Johnson's quarterback rating with Jim Kelly's, or Fitzpatrick's yards per season with Kelly's; and coming up with all sorts of nonsense. My beef with qbr is that the old rating is an incredibly accurate evaluator of play over a full season (as opposed to short intervals). Also, qb rating differential (between offense and defense) may well be the best predictor of team performance in all of team sports (outside of points scored and given up, obviously). Over the course of a full season, a lot of peripheral stuff comes out in the wash in the older system and I still trust it a lot. The good qbs have good ratings and the bad qbs have bad ratings. I really can't think of qbs with 100 plus rating who I thought didn't perform really well. Edited September 23, 2014 by dave mcbride
Rob's House Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 My beef with qbr is that the old rating is an incredibly accurate evaluator of play over a full season (as opposed to short intervals). Also, qb rating differential (between offense and defense) may well be the best predictor of team performance in all of team sports (outside of points scored and given up, obviously). Over the course of a full season, a lot of peripheral stuff comes out in the wash in the older system and I still trust it a lot. The good qbs have good ratings and the bad qbs have bad ratings. I really can't think of qbs with 100 plus rating who I thought didn't perform really well. That argument can become circular though if you judge who the better QBs are based on QB rating. I think Rob Johnson had a slightly higher rating than Flutie due to his tendency to take a sack rather than throw the ball away. A system that rewards that kind of poor decision making is inherently flawed.
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Where's my Geno smith crowd at ? Pick city. Turnover machine. It's funny you should mention Geno because while he is very much unproven and seemingly more likely to throw a game away I prefer his style to EJs. EJ is the 'I'm gonna try to not lose the game' guy whereas Geno is the 'everything be damned, I'm gonna try and win' kind of guy.
26TrapDraw Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Here we have another example of gross exaggeration. K maybe not never but you have to admit he throws most passes either high or they flutter. I watched Can Newton throw a laser to Kelvin Benjamin last night and would love to see EJ do that more. I want to see him take command and not just try not to make mistakes.
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 K maybe not never but you have to admit he throws most passes either high or they flutter. I watched Can Newton throw a laser to Kelvin Benjamin last night and would love to see EJ do that more. I want to see him take command and not just try not to make mistakes. I would love to see EJ throw a pass that makes him worthy to be Cam Newtons water boy.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 K maybe not never but you have to admit he throws most passes either high or they flutter. I watched Can Newton throw a laser to Kelvin Benjamin last night and would love to see EJ do that more. I want to see him take command and not just try not to make mistakes. EJ has ball location issues on some of his throws without any doubt. He isn't ready to take command. He needs support from the run game and a clean pocket to operate in. He can and has made plays when things break down on occasion as evidenced by his escape from a sack yesterday where he hit Chandler for a 37 yard gain. Patience. I would love to see EJ throw a pass that makes him worthy to be Cam Newtons water boy. Beautiful pass to Chandler against the Dolphins in week 2. Guess that doesn't make the grade for you.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Beautiful pass to Chandler against the Dolphins in week 2. Guess that doesn't make the grade for you. Well, how about more than one, smart guy! I CAN AND WILL ALWAYS MOVE THE GOALPOSTS.
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I would love to see EJ throw a pass that makes him worthy to be Cam Newtons water boy. Just so you know......you might have been playing nice in the beginning but your posts are getting worse and worse and everyone can see it.......
FireChan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Well, how about more than one, smart guy! I CAN AND WILL ALWAYS MOVE THE GOALPOSTS. If you aren't moving the goal posts, you don't want to win an argument enough.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 If you aren't moving the goal posts, you don't want to win an argument enough.
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) It's funny you should mention Geno because while he is very much unproven and seemingly more likely to throw a game away I prefer his style to EJs. EJ is the 'I'm gonna try to not lose the game' guy whereas Geno is the 'everything be damned, I'm gonna try and win' kind of guy. And as I see this quote Geno throws another should be int that hits a defender right in the hands........ Ball security is a real factor in the NFL Edited September 23, 2014 by John from Hemet
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 If you aren't moving the goal posts, you don't want to win an argument enough. Dude, I gotta admit we see eye to eye very infrequently, but that's some funny sh--. And as I see this quote EJ throws another should be int that hits a defender right in the hands........ Ball security is a real factor in the NFL ??
LB3 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 If you aren't moving the goal posts, you don't want to win an argument enough. Win
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Dude, I gotta admit we see eye to eye very infrequently, but that's some funny sh--. ?? sorry tired
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 It's funny you should mention Geno because while he is very much unproven and seemingly more likely to throw a game away I prefer his style to EJs. EJ is the 'I'm gonna try to not lose the game' guy whereas Geno is the 'everything be damned, I'm gonna try and win' kind of guy. Kind of like Fitz. I know everyone came away thinking "Damn, Fitz threw 3 picks but the guy really tries to win."
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