All_Pro_Bills Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) How many good throws constitute a commensurate "flash of being good?" Since it is greater than 5 in 3 games, what is the number? Tom Brady showed flashes his rookie year? Drew Brees flashed his way out of San Diego. All of you QB bashers will never be happy because there will never be a qb drafted by the bills who is an instant probowler. It's never gonna happen. I expect EJ to be able to execute some basic throws with consistency and accuracy. This is not really too much to ask for from somebody coming out of a major college football program. Like consistently hit an open receiver on a 5 yard crossing pattern placing the ball in front of the receiver, at shoulder level, and hitting him in stride rather than throwing the ball high and behind similar to the throw that almost got Goodwin killed yesterday. I expect the QB to be able to execute a screen pass that doesn't require the running back to jump with arms extended to catch a high, floating pass that allows the defense to close on the play which turns a potential 10+ yard play into a 3 yard play. I expect the quarterback to be able to consistently execute basic 15-20 yard throws rather than miss wide open receivers high and wide. I expect a QB that is said to have 'arm strength' to be able to deliver the ball with velocity and 'on a rope' vs. floating a flopping spiral that's up for grabs. What I see instead is a QB that is not showing a lot of positive body language and a throwing motion more like a guy trying to 'aim' a football through a tire at the carnival rather than the delivery motion of an NFL quarterback. Edited September 22, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Austin Davis is outplaying EJ...that is a FACT. Hmmm, let us not consider the caliber of the Cowboys' D vs. the Chargers' D. Nope, nothing to think about there.
34-78-83 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I wish more people felt this way. During the Edwards vs. Fitz debates people would constantly use Trents comp% as reason for his superiority... I always felt Fitz was better. I got my point across by showing how Fitz doubled the production of TO and Lee when he played as opposed to Trent and that was more important that Trents comp %. You don't need to worry how people feel about this. It is a fact. You are right and there's 100 ways to prove it as above. I say on this board probably far too many times that not everything is up for debate even though people feel that is their right...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 The future: Without a #1 draft pick there may not be a sure fire franchise available QB in next year's draft. In the 2014 season let's see what Orton has and hand EJ the clipboard. If Orton isn't the guy, pick up a quality FA next year who can play. In any event, DO NOT force a draft pick again based on desperation (e.g EJ at #16 when he was a projected 2nd/3rd rounder). The Bills FO needs to do a better job of scouting potential 'real deals'. Have a plan to draft the right guy, even if it takes a year of patience to find him.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Hmmm, let us not consider the caliber of the Cowboys' D vs. the Chargers' D. Nope, nothing to think about there. how about the quality of Davis' skill players versus what EJ has? Seems to me EJ has a ton more to work with.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Austin Davis is outplaying EJ...that is a FACT. Who?
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 how about the quality of Davis' skill players versus what EJ has? Seems to me EJ has a ton more to work with. The Cowboys have zero pass rush.....None! The Chargers were collapsing the pocket all day long with quick pressure. Makes a huge difference regardless of the available weapons. The Cowboys D is a joke!
GG Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I sense a reading comprehension deficit at work here. I advocate that it is incorrect to set expectations based on the achievements of that rookie class. And cite the circumstances for each of these QBs is quite different. How on earth is that interpreted as contrasting the two. I am pretty sure I kept it to about a sixth grade reading level. Hmmm. Dunno what else to say. Really, you didn't invite a comparison between Wilson & EJ? Then which 6th grader wrote the following, and perhaps you can explain it to me, because I clearly don't understand it: They look at russell rg3 and luck getting to the playoffs as rookies and it somehow morphs into an unrealistic expectation for a guy to astonish at his 13th game. Russell Wilson isn't putting the Hawks on his back winning games.
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Who? Exactly. Who?! Who is an undrafted FA QB and he's handily outplaying EJ.
Orton's Arm Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I wish more people felt this way. During the Edwards vs. Fitz debates people would constantly use Trents comp% as reason for his superiority... I always felt Fitz was better. I got my point across by showing how Fitz doubled the production of TO and Lee when he played as opposed to Trent and that was more important that Trents comp %. Good post. Completion percentage is a potentially very misleading stat. It's easy for a QB to inflate his completion percentage with lots of short dump-off passes. One of the reasons that the quarterback rating system is useless is because it takes completion percentage into account. Kelly Holcomb--a guy not afraid to dump the ball off short--has a nearly identical career quarterback rating as John Elway. Quarterback rating is a broken stat! Total Quarterback Rating--or QBR--is a much better, more accurate way of assessing a quarterback's performance. I'm gradually coming to believe it's even better than yards per attempt. (Though either QBR or yards per attempt are much better stats than quarterback rating.) Manuel's performance against the Chargers represented the second-worst QBR of his career. I expect his QBR for the rest of the season to be closer to 42 (his rookie year average) than to 8.4 (his QBR against the Chargers).
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Hmmm, let us not consider the caliber of the Cowboys' D vs. the Chargers' D. Nope, nothing to think about there. Doesn't change the fact that Davis is making plays and playing better than EJ.
GG Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 All of you QB bashers will never be happy because there will never be a qb drafted by the bills who is an instant probowler. It's never gonna happen. I haven't seen anyone clamoring for a probowl. What is expected is improvement in his second year, which he's struggling to provide. After two training camps and nearly a full season of action and the play is strikingly the same. For all the QBs that were projects (and better check Brees' history in SD before you insist that they dumped him for poor play) all got better. The ones who didn't improve, didn't last long, and it was only the front office stubbornness that delayed the obvious decisions.
Big Gun Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Hmmm, let us not consider the caliber of the Cowboys' D vs. the Chargers' D. Nope, nothing to think about there. So EJ could go 30-42 327 yards 3 TDs and 2 Int with ZERO sacks against the Cowboys defense. I don't think he could.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 So EJ could go 30-42 327 yards 3 TDs and 2 Int with ZERO sacks against the Cowboys defense. I don't think he could. Next time he throws for 300 yards will be the first.
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Good post. Completion percentage is a potentially very misleading stat. It's easy for a QB to inflate his completion percentage with lots of short dump-off passes. One of the reasons that the quarterback rating system is useless is because it takes completion percentage into account. Kelly Holcomb--a guy not afraid to dump the ball off short--has a nearly identical career quarterback rating as John Elway. Quarterback rating is a broken stat! Total Quarterback Rating--or QBR--is a much better, more accurate way of assessing a quarterback's performance. I'm gradually coming to believe it's even better than yards per attempt. (Though either QBR or yards per attempt are much better stats than quarterback rating.) Manuel's performance against the Chargers represented the second-worst QBR of his career. I expect his QBR for the rest of the season to be closer to 42 (his rookie year average) than to 8.4 (his QBR against the Chargers). Thank you, Sir.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Exactly. Who?! Who is an undrafted FA QB and he's handily outplaying EJ. Austin Davis is a quarterback for the St Louis Rams of the National Football League. A walk-on to the Southern Miss Golden Eagles program, Davis redshirted the 2007 season and became the starter a year later. Wikipedia this helps. I have been working so much this year I watch only two or three games a week counting college, down from 10ish. So EJ could go 30-42 327 yards 3 TDs and 2 Int with ZERO sacks against the Cowboys defense. I don't think he could. ouch
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Doesn't change the fact that Davis is making plays and playing better than EJ. How so? He played one decent game that resulted in a loss. The previous week he threw for 230 yards and zero TDs against one of the 3 worst teams in football. In limited duty in week 1, he threw for 190 yards with zero TDs and an interception in a loss to Matt Cassel and the 1-2 Vikings. Meanwhile, EJ has played 2 solid games (one on the road against a team that beat SF on the road at night, and one at home against a divisional opponent) and 1 stinker (against a team that beat the Superbowl champs the previous week). So remind me how he's playing better than EJ? Must be the 1 decent game he played against a defense that was among the worst all-time units in the history of professional football last year. Hyperbole can be fun, but sensible points are much more suitable for discussion IMO.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 So EJ could go 30-42 327 yards 3 TDs and 2 Int with ZERO sacks against the Cowboys defense. I don't think he could. I'm not surprised at all about your anti-EJ sentiments. You believe in extremes as in he NEVER does anything positive. We have you firmly in the negative column with blinders. So noted.
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 So EJ could go 30-42 327 yards 3 TDs and 2 Int with ZERO sacks against the Cowboys defense. I don't think he could. So you're basing your opinion of EJ on what he maybe might do against a horrible defense? That's...not...normal. By the way, he took zero sacks against Miami, who pummeled Tom Brady the week before, but don't let that get in the way. I swear I'm watching a different game than most people...I'm sure of it.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I'm not surprised at all about your anti-EJ sentiments. You believe in extremes as in he NEVER does anything positive. We have you firmly in the negative column with blinders. So noted. You are waaaaaaay too enamored with EJ to be objective.
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