DC Tom Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 People need to get over this. Go back and take a look last year who the playoff QB's were and where they were drafted... Conversely, look at where the Bills drafted QBs the past 14 years. Anyone who argues that you can only get a "sure-fire" QB with a high first-round pick to replace the current first-round-picked QB deserves to be beaten.
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Conversely, look at where the Bills drafted QBs the past 14 years. Anyone who argues that you can only get a "sure-fire" QB with a high first-round pick to replace the current first-round-picked QB deserves to be beaten. Obviously, as they are clearly obtainable after the first round. The odds however of obtaining a "sure-fire" QB after the first 36ish picks are drastically reduced. Anyone who argues that it is a reasonable strategy to try and find your "sure-fire" QB after the very top of the 2nd round deserves also to be beaten.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Just stop with the Russell Wilson analogies. Seahawks aren't asking him to be Manning, because they don't have to. But if they did, Wilson could carry the load. Note who's the highest rated QB in the game is. From his first day as a pro Russell Wilson showed an incredible command of the field and rose to starter from third string. He was NFL ready during his first summer. There is no comparing EJ to Russell Wilson. Stop it. I sense a reading comprehension deficit at work here. I advocate that it is incorrect to set expectations based on the achievements of that rookie class. And cite the circumstances for each of these QBs is quite different. How on earth is that interpreted as contrasting the two. I am pretty sure I kept it to about a sixth grade reading level. Hmmm. Dunno what else to say.
DC Tom Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Obviously, as they are clearly obtainable after the first round. The odds however of obtaining a "sure-fire" QB after the first 36ish picks are drastically reduced. Anyone who argues that it is a reasonable strategy to try and find your "sure-fire" QB after the very top of the 2nd round deserves also to be beaten. But you're inverting my point: it's not that you can find "sure-fire" QBs later. It's that there's no such thing in any round. Doubly so when you're the Bills.
ricojes Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 EJ had a bad game yesterday, there's just no denying that. Yesterday you definitely can see the huge gap between a very good QB and EJ. I believe he has the potential to be very good, but at this point and time he's very average. So we're kind of stuck in development mode, which is why it's imperative that they address the run game and get that on track. The Bills can win with EJ, but can't rely on EJ to win games.
BillsVet Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I don't think they'd do it to keep up appearances; I think they'd do it to give themselves every opportunity to be right about the kid in the long-term. They don't have a long term with the Buffalo Bills if they don't make the playoffs in 2014. It's why they traded their 2015 first round pick, in hopes of accelerating EJ's development. If (and it's an if at this point) things get bad, i.e. being 2-3 after week 5, the EJ experiment at least needs to be reviewed. Regardless, the way to beat the Buffalo Bills was on display for the league to see yesterday.
CountDorkula Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Conversely, look at where the Bills drafted QBs the past 14 years. Anyone who argues that you can only get a "sure-fire" QB with a high first-round pick to replace the current first-round-picked QB deserves to be beaten. Obviously, as they are clearly obtainable after the first round. The odds however of obtaining a "sure-fire" QB after the first 36ish picks are drastically reduced. Anyone who argues that it is a reasonable strategy to try and find your "sure-fire" QB after the very top of the 2nd round deserves also to be beaten. So we should all just beat each other....
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 But you're inverting my point: it's not that you can find "sure-fire" QBs later. It's that there's no such thing in any round. Doubly so when you're the Bills. Sorry. Misinterpreted what you meant by "sure-fire". You meant sure-fire prospect......I thought you meant ended up as a sure-fire pro(as in frachise QB).
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Yeah, and all those guys showed ability, competency and flashes of being good in their first 10 games. What has EJ shown? 5 total good throws this year, maybe, other than that it's been a crap show. How many good throws constitute a commensurate "flash of being good?" Since it is greater than 5 in 3 games, what is the number? Tom Brady showed flashes his rookie year? Drew Brees flashed his way out of San Diego. All of you QB bashers will never be happy because there will never be a qb drafted by the bills who is an instant probowler. It's never gonna happen.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Drew Brees flashed his way out of San Diego. Not even close to how it went down.
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 How many good throws constitute a commensurate "flash of being good?" Since it is greater than 5 in 3 games, what is the number? Tom Brady showed flashes his rookie year? Drew Brees flashed his way out of San Diego. All of you QB bashers will never be happy because there will never be a qb drafted by the bills who is an instant probowler. It's never gonna happen. Drew Brees did not flash his way out of San Diego. He was a pro bowl up and coming star QB who got injured in a contract year. The Chargers had Rivers on the bench and decided not to pay $20M/year to a QB who might not recover fully from his injury. Please, look it up(wiki would do the job). Brees leaving San Diego had nothing to do with their views on his ability.
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 They don't have a long term with the Buffalo Bills if they don't make the playoffs in 2014. It's why they traded their 2015 first round pick, in hopes of accelerating EJ's development. If (and it's an if at this point) things get bad, i.e. being 2-3 after week 5, the EJ experiment at least needs to be reviewed. Regardless, the way to beat the Buffalo Bills was on display for the league to see yesterday. That could certainly be the case; I don't think it is just for the record. I also think that SD didn't do anything in their approach that was vastly different than what Miami or Chicago tried to do; the difference IMO was that EJ simply didn't make the throws this game the way he did in the previous two. You are correct that that's the model for beating Buffalo...or perhaps, it may even be more appropriate to say that Buffalo's winning model involves EJ making the field-stretching throws that he missed yesterday.
papazoid Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? Tossing away EJ's career and looking again for the next "franchise" QB. making the playoffs this year is far more important than the development of one player. EJ is clearly NOT ready. at best he is mediocre and at worst an inaccurate mental midget. how is it fair to the rest of the players and fans to throw multiple seasons away going "All-In" on a mediocre unproven QB ? the team is better served letting EJ "develop" on the bench. I have no idea if Orton is the answer, but i'm quite sure EJ is not. THE BILLS BRAIN TRUST HAS FAILED AT THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. I bet before the draft, the Redskins would have taken the Bills next years 1st round pick for Cousins. Edited September 22, 2014 by papazoid
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Actually, in context, stats show most of those things. I'll take my eyes over stats everyday. I'm just not a fan. Stats are quantitative but my question is always why? If the QB had a bad day, why? Was the line bad? Were there drops? Was the QB inaccurate and lost? I don't believe stats can tell you these things.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 He's not going to get the luxury of having the rest of the season to prove himself. The Dougs necks are on the line, and if they feel EJ does not give them the best opportunity to win NOW, there is no doubt in my mind he is on a short leash, they are going to switch things up, and I have to believe EJ's days are numbered. probably true, I'm not a fan of his so if he is benched I wont be upset.
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Austin Davis is outplaying EJ...that is a FACT.
34-78-83 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I'll take my eyes over stats everyday. I'm just not a fan. Stats are quantitative but my question is always why? If the QB had a bad day, why? Was the line bad? Were there drops? Was the QB inaccurate and lost? I don't believe stats can tell you these things. I think you're right in this case. For example, you can have 2 guys with 60% completions and have one who throws very accurately but takes a ton of chances in coverage and down the field, and another who isn't accurate but has a great O-line and completes a lot of less risky passes, or has a great RAC receiver...
Orton's Arm Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Which would be fine & dandy if this was his rookie year, the GM didn't trade away last year's first rounder & didn't set playoffs as the goal for this season. If this was year 0 of the rebuilding project, then it's a very sound strategy. But Bills can't have it both ways. They can't stack the roster with good players, all expecting to win, and then fall back on "we need to wait on our QB to mature next year" excuse. You're right, there's nothing that can be done for this year, but without a first rounder next year, there may not be much to do next year either. I get what you're saying. In fact, I said the same things myself--first when the Bills took EJ in the first place; then when Whaley traded away next year's first round pick. Don't get me wrong. I'm very impressed with Watkins as a player. He's significantly ahead of where I'd expected him to be at this point in his career. But before investing two years' worth of first round picks into a single WR, it generally makes sense to get the QB position taken care of. From the get-go, Manuel represented an extremely risky prospect; with failure much more likely than success. It's one thing for a team to use a second or third round pick on a guy like that, and to try him out as an experiment. It's another thing for a team to use a first round pick on him; and then start building around him as if they were "set" at quarterback.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Maybe I am just disenfranchised with EJ, but I just don't see the proverbial "it" with him. I think it mostly has to do with how I perceive his awareness on the field. I know he was hurt last year and was told to get down when possible, but is jogging out of bounds two yards short of the sticks acceptable? Is throwing widowmaker balls to his receivers acceptable? (Yes i know other QB's get their wideouts killed) but it seems more frequent with EJ. Intentional grounding in the endzone? I also never see him uncork the alleged big arm he has. I just see a whole lot of Losman in the guy. Trentative.
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I think you're right in this case. For example, you can have 2 guys with 60% completions and have one who throws very accurately but takes a ton of chances in coverage and down the field, and another who isn't accurate but has a great O-line and completes a lot of less risky passes, or has a great RAC receiver... I wish more people felt this way. During the Edwards vs. Fitz debates people would constantly use Trents comp% as reason for his superiority... I always felt Fitz was better. I got my point across by showing how Fitz doubled the production of TO and Lee when he played as opposed to Trent and that was more important that Trents comp %.
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