CountDorkula Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 The problem: I watched the game yesterday and was struck by the multiple missed opportunities by our 'young' QB. There were opportunities to make plays that resulted, instead, in inaccurate throws and/or missed receivers. All kudos to SD for playing a smart game. But I couldn't help to agree with the announcers that the chances for EJ and the Bills were there. I thought to myself many times, geez [insert a dozen QB names], would have made that play. The Bills could have won that game. The solution: Start him a couple more games and if/when he falters sit him in favor of Orton. Let him watch and learn. This would be the best thing for his development. While there's no guarantee he truly has the instincts to be a winning NFL QB, this approach at least keeps his psyche intact and allows him to grow for possible future usefulness. You can't teach 6' 5" and 4.6 speed. You can arguably teach throwing mechanics and field awareness (maybe). This approach presupposes the right QB coach. Am not sure if the Bills have the guy currently employed? Maybe Frank Reich has the skills to help EJ find the light? The future: Without a #1 draft pick there may not be a sure fire franchise available QB in next year's draft. In the 2014 season let's see what Orton has and hand EJ the clipboard. If Orton isn't the guy, pick up a quality FA next year who can play. In any event, DO NOT force a draft pick again based on desperation (e.g EJ at #16 when he was a projected 2nd/3rd rounder). The Bills FO needs to do a better job of scouting potential 'real deals'. Have a plan to draft the right guy, even if it takes a year of patience to find him. People need to get over this. Go back and take a look last year who the playoff QB's were and where they were drafted...
The_Dude Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Kyle Orton career completion percentage - 58.5% Ryan Fitzpatric career completion percentage - 59.9% ok Again, I respectfully disagree. I know the stats. I just don't care for them. Stat's don't show ball placement. Stat's don't show checkdowns vs. deep outs to receivers. A lot go into them. I believe Orton is a smart, accurate QB, that's capable of getting this very talented team to the playoffs. I believe that every team is only going to play one safety deep because they don't respect EJ (and why should they?). I believe Orton legitimizes our offense in a way EJ can't. I respect opinions that differ from mine, but that's how I see it.
The Dean Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Again, I respectfully disagree. I know the stats. I just don't care for them. Stat's don't show ball placement. Stat's don't show checkdowns vs. deep outs to receivers. A lot go into them. I believe Orton is a smart, accurate QB, that's capable of getting this very talented team to the playoffs. I believe that every team is only going to play one safety deep because they don't respect EJ (and why should they?). I believe Orton legitimizes our offense in a way EJ can't. I respect opinions that differ from mine, but that's how I see it. Actually, in context, stats show most of those things.
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) People need to get over this. Go back and take a look last year who the playoff QB's were and where they were drafted... They also need to go back and look at the QBs who have won the last 20ish SBs and see how many were selected #1 overall in the draft, as well as the number that were selected before/after pick 36ish. Edited September 22, 2014 by Dibs
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) True enough. But as a reminder, Rivers didn't even start until his third year in the NFL. He didn't become a good starter until his 5th year. EJ's rating is 90.8. Rivers' rating his 1st year starting (3rd year in the league) was 92. Rivers' rating his 2nd year starting was 82. Then things finally clicked. His rating has been over 100 five of the next 7 years. Personally, I'm going to be patient in my judgement of EJ. http://www.nfl.com/player/philiprivers/2506121/careerstats It's just been impossible to drive home this message. Everyone's short term memory fails when assessing the current guy. They look at russell rg3 and luck getting to the playoffs as rookies and it somehow morphs into an unrealistic expectation for a guy to astonish at his 13th game. Russell Wilson isn't putting the Hawks on his back winning games. Rg3 might lose his job permanently to cousins and Luck considered one of the best prospects ever still is having consistency issues. Never mind that Eli, a guy with two rings was abysmal his rookie year. Never mind that Brady Rodgers and Rivers rode pine their first season or more... Brees struggled so much San Diego drafted rivers, started Flutie over him at one point and let him go in free agency. Never mind as bad as we the board suggests this guy is, he still had the tenth best rookie passer rating in at least 25 years. I think the guy just needs to get to the point where he's just playing ball. I believe it is really difficult for an outsider to understand if a missed pass is on the qb or the WR, unless you hear someone fess up to it. If the guy hadn't made so many great throws people could "know" he is inaccurate. But if this is a timing issue and not an inability to hit a spot, then it's can improve. Edited September 22, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? Tossing away EJ's career and looking again for the next "franchise" QB.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? Well, we would "make the playoffs" for the first time in "15 years" in this scenario.
billsfan714 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? Tossing away EJ's career and looking again for the next "franchise" QB. Cue Herm Edwards.........
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? Tossing away EJ's career and looking again for the next "franchise" QB. Which makes total sense if one is 100% convinced that he will never be better than mediocre. I for one am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet though. Edited September 22, 2014 by Dibs
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Which makes total sense if one is 100% convinced that he will never be better than mediocre. I for one am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. +1
GG Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 It's just been impossible to drive home this message. Everyone's short term memory fails when assessing the current guy. They look at russell rg3 and luck getting to the playoffs as rookies and it somehow morphs into an unrealistic expectation for a guy to astonish at his 13th game. Russell Wilson isn't putting the Hawks on his back winning games. Rg3 might lose his job permanently to cousins and Luck considered one of the best prospects ever still is having consistency issues. Just stop with the Russell Wilson analogies. Seahawks aren't asking him to be Manning, because they don't have to. But if they did, Wilson could carry the load. Note who's the highest rated QB in the game is. From his first day as a pro Russell Wilson showed an incredible command of the field and rose to starter from third string. He was NFL ready during his first summer. There is no comparing EJ to Russell Wilson. Stop it.
Big Gun Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) It's just been impossible to drive home this message. Everyone's short term memory fails when assessing the current guy. They look at russell rg3 and luck getting to the playoffs as rookies and it somehow morphs into an unrealistic expectation for a guy to astonish at his 13th game. Russell Wilson isn't putting the Hawks on his back winning games. Rg3 might lose his job permanently to cousins and Luck considered one of the best prospects ever still is having consistency issues. Never mind that Eli, a guy with two rings was abysmal his rookie year. Never mind that Brady Rodgers and Rivers rode pine their first season or more... Brees struggled so much San Diego drafted rivers, started Flutie over him at one point and let him go in free agency. Never mind as bad as we the board suggests this guy is, he still had the tenth best rookie passer rating in at least 25 years. I think the guy just needs to get to the point where he's just playing ball. I believe it is really difficult for an outsider to understand if a missed pass is on the qb or the WR, unless you hear someone fess up to it. If the guy hadn't made so many great throws people could "know" he is inaccurate. But if this is a timing issue and not an inability to hit a spot, then it's can improve. Yeah, and all those guys showed ability, competency and flashes of being good in their first 10 games. What has EJ shown? 5 total good throws this year, maybe, other than that it's been a crap show. Edited September 22, 2014 by old school
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Which makes total sense if one is 100% convinced that he will never be better than mediocre. I for one am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet though. that's my point. Sure I'd like to see the drought end but at what cost? Sophomore slump anyone? It happens all the time. the big ? is can they overcome their slump. We need to see IF EJ is the man and act accordingly and not rashly.
BillsVet Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 using Orton NOW to "make the playoffs" will serve the Bills what? It may serve to save the Doug's their jobs. And if the book on Manuel is he won't throw to anything less than a wide open receiver downfield, they'll act accordingly. Executives will look to save their jobs before falling on their sword.
Dibs Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 that's my point. Sure I'd like to see the drought end but at what cost? Sophomore slump anyone? It happens all the time. the big ? is can they overcome their slump. We need to see IF EJ is the man and act accordingly and not rashly. Yeah, I was agreeing with you......and was pointing out that those fans who have totally given up on EJ won't be able to see your logic due to their fixed stance on the issue.
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Yeah, and all those guys showed ability, competency and flashes of being good in their first 10 games. What has EJ shown? 5 total good throws this year, maybe, other than that it's been a crap show. Hey, I'm by no means an EJ apologist, but you've been watching a different game than I have. His worst outing was yesterday by a country mile, and I can list 5 good throws from yesterday off the top of my head. It may serve to save the Doug's their jobs. And if the book on Manuel is he won't throw to anything less than a wide open receiver downfield, they'll act accordingly. Executives will look to save their jobs before falling on their sword. I think they're sinking or swimming with EJ...if he's not good enough, they're out (even if Orton came in and played well enough to get them to the post-season).
RussellDopeland Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 What Manuel really needs is a swift kick in the a$$ from his godfather Bruce. I mean it with all sincerity. He seems too mild-mannered and frankly, meek. To be a great player not only is talent required, but the "want" has to be present as well. Neither Manuel nor Gilmore appear to have that "want" at the moment- they're content to leave the stadium after a loss with a shrug of the shoulders and the banal phrase "we need to get better" on their lips. QBs have to have brass b@lls- Manuel plays as if he lacks them altogether.
BillsVet Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 I think they're sinking or swimming with EJ...if he's not good enough, they're out (even if Orton came in and played well enough to get them to the post-season). High level executives don't go down on principle. And in this case, the principle is Manuel, who is undoubtedly their pick. They'll cut their losses and go with Orton if they see the season going down the tubes. Besides, which GM and HC would trot EJ out to keep up appearances if the team feels someone else gives them a better change to win?
Big Gun Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Hey, I'm by no means an EJ apologist, but you've been watching a different game than I have. His worst outing was yesterday by a country mile, and I can list 5 good throws from yesterday off the top of my head. I think they're sinking or swimming with EJ...if he's not good enough, they're out (even if Orton came in and played well enough to get them to the post-season). I know, I just threw that out there as a way of saying way more bad throws than good.
thebandit27 Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 High level executives don't go down on principle. And in this case, the principle is Manuel, who is undoubtedly their pick. They'll cut their losses and go with Orton if they see the season going down the tubes. Besides, which GM and HC would trot EJ out to keep up appearances if the team feels someone else gives them a better change to win? I don't think they'd do it to keep up appearances; I think they'd do it to give themselves every opportunity to be right about the kid in the long-term. I know, I just threw that out there as a way of saying way more bad throws than good. Yesterday that was certainly the case. The first 2 weeks I disagree.
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