John from Riverside Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm not trying to knock EJ here. I just think JfH is going a little too far defending EJ. To start saying "a lot of those teams are losing" is an insinuation that those teams aren't better off with those QB's. Cutty may be debatable, but the rest are not. I was talking about for the 2014 season. I understand why JfH defends EJ, and I also understand that he has to stick to his guns. But it's ridiculous to even imply that 9/10 of those QB's wouldn't be better for us in 2014. It damages his credibility when he (rightfully) defends EJ from the overly critical. 2015 and beyond? Maybe that will change. What truly hurts credibility are folks saying that EJ is not playing well when he plainly is..... The next thing on the checklist is to show he can be consistant.......but the truly foolish looking are looking are the ones who are SEARCHING for ways to downplay his performance...then when they cant find anything to back that up and posters give accurate information to the contrary....they continue to post it like it is fact..... I in fact....is NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Top 10 QB's for 2014 season only. #1- P. Manning #2- A. Rodgers #3- D. Brees #4- P. Rivers #5- T. Brady #6- A. Luck #7- R. Wilson #8- J. Cutler #9- C. Newton #10- M. Stafford I went to the ESPN site and got a significantly different list.... 2014 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER TOTAL QBR 1 Kirk Cousins, WSH 93.7 2 Peyton Manning, DEN 92 3 Derek Anderson, CAR 89.6 4 Ryan Fitzpatrick, HOU 84.1 5 Matthew Stafford, DET 81.4 6 Carson Palmer, ARI 79.9 7 Matt Ryan, ATL 74 8 Philip Rivers, SD 73.6 9 Aaron Rodgers, GB 72.1 10 Drew Brees, NO 71.1 Edited September 15, 2014 by prissythecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 @NickelCityBills Week 2 wCP through Sunday night's game. Manuel in middle of pack but in good company Number 5 shows the worth of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Let's see how EJ performs when the Bills are down by a couple scores and he has to make multiple throws downfield before he's anointed as the answer. Some "experts" on this board will not be happy unless EJ goes 20-20-0-2000 yards and 20 TDS in a game. He looks a winner, 2-0, to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I went to the ESPN site and got a significantly different list.... 2014 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 1 Kirk Cousins, WSH 6.1 0.0 -0.8 0.1 5.4 41 11.5 8.1 93.7 2 Peyton Manning, DEN 13.7 0.0 -0.7 0.9 13.9 75 19.7 13.4 92.0 3 Derek Anderson, CAR 7.9 0.3 -0.6 -0.0 7.6 40 9.7 6.3 89.6 4 Ryan Fitzpatrick, HOU 7.7 -0.1 0.0 0.2 7.8 55 11.3 6.7 84.1 5 Matthew Stafford, DET 13.1 1.2 -2.2 0.0 12.1 93 17.9 10.1 81.4 6 Carson Palmer, ARI 7.8 1.5 -1.9 0.6 8.0 50 9.2 5.1 79.9 7 Matt Ryan, ATL 11.4 1.3 -1.5 0.5 11.7 105 16.8 8.1 74.0 8 Philip Rivers, SD 13.5 -1.2 -0.8 0.8 12.2 92 14.6 7.0 73.6 9 Aaron Rodgers, GB 10.8 1.1 -4.6 3.0 10.3 95 14.6 6.7 72.1 10 Drew Brees, NO 11.4 -0.1 -1.5 1.9 11.6 94 14.1 6.3 71.1 Well as a stats guy, I freely admit they don't tell the full story. And two games is an awfully small sample size. Number 5 shows the worth of the list. That's based on ONE game. I don't know if that is a good metric, or not. But no metric is perfect with a sample of one or two games. As we all know, Fitz is perfectly capable of paying a good game or two. Or has it been too long for some to remember that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 And that K9 is the entire point......the displeasure that looks really foolish right now is being put on the record so that when EJ lays an egg this group will be out here starting 30 threads about how bad EJ Manuel is and how they told us all so. By trying to plant the seed in games where EJ was actually decent they are laying groundwork for later on..... Its transparent....and it sucks It's the equivalent of the original post of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Time to get the ignore/block feature out. These gurus that complain after EJ's 2-0 start will be unbearable after a bills loss. No accountability, yap after wins yap after losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Fixed. You think he has no flaws? Now there's some real hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 It's the equivalent of the original post of this thread. Asking the folks that are consistent in their criticism of EJ regardless of a game's outcome (and they're out there) if they're changing their tune at all is (IMO) in no way equivalent to continuing to say that a guy isn't playing well when he obviously is out of some desire to possibly be right down the road. I just don't see why folks have to be so invested in being right or wrong about a player. Personally, I have felt since day 1 that EJ would eventually be a quality starter in this league. Does that make me right? Who knows at this point? Based on last year, the answer would be no. Based on the first 2 games of this year, the answer would be closer to yes. That doesn't mean I have to wear blinders when he doesn't play well simply so that I can be right later on if/when he does...I can just watch his play, be objective, and care more about the team winning. I'm not saying that you specifically do what John is saying, but I can say that some folks do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 You can keep Cutler. I'll stay with EJ. Looking toward the future, Manning, Brady, Brees and perhaps even Rivers might be great for the short term. But the Bills would be on the lookout for their future QB ASAP. Notice ANY 2nd year QBs on that list? Didn't think so. I believe I would have put Luck in that list in his 2nd year (maybe his rookie year). Same with Wilson. Very rare for a QB to demonstrate elite skills in the NFL this early in his career. To a degree we think every high QB pick should be able to do this now, because we've been fortunate enough to see a couple do it recently. Keep that in perspective. It is a very rare occurrence. The 2nd year QBs come from as bad a class of QBs as in recent memory. I also believe Geno has a much better arm than EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 MDH has it right. 12 starts! What more can you want? LY he was hurt for most of those 10. He has a great start this year and you can see he bails when needed and gets out of bounds. Give him time to grow and I see great things ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 LOL Look at # 28 http://espn.go.com/n...arterbackRating 13 EJ Manuel 26 Geno Smith, 27 Derek Carr, 28 Tom Brady, 29 Ryan Tannehill And look who's at number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I also credit Papazoid for giving a list of what he considers the top 10 "Franchise" Quarterbacks, but I think 10 is an arbitrary number to be honest. For me personally there are 4 guys currently in the league who have proven themselves elite over a significant period of time: Manning (P) Brady Rodgers Brees Then there is a group of 4 who I think the vast majority of NFL fans (even accounting for biases) would have in their current top 10 (one of whom interestingly wasn't in Papazoid's) Rivers Roethlisberger Luck Wilson To me after that there are as many as 10 grouped pretty closely who I think if you asked 100 fans distributed pretty equally across the league to list would all have similar inclusions. From Papazoid's list there is no way Cutler makes my top 10, none at all, and there are others I'd have ahead of Matt Stafford and Cam Newton. I think the groups are more like the top 4; the next 4; then a much bigger group of guys who you can consistently win with and could even win a Superbowl with if everything comes right (Flacco) but who you are unlikely to dominate with (you could split this into two between those who have proven they can be clutch and those who haven't I suppose). Then there is a small group of guys I just don't think you can win with (Cassell, Henne, Fitzpatrick, Hoyer etc..) Edited September 15, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I've had enough of all the EJ bashing. Just because he sucks doesn't mean you have to bash him. Jeez. Edit: In all seriousness, I'm still not sold on EJ, but he's played well enough to deserve to be the man under C. It's even better that he is healthy and can still run when needed. At this point I would not trade him for RG 3. I wouldn't trade a back up punter for RG3. He actually does suck. Edited September 15, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If we want to talk about rankings, the conversation, IMO, needs to be fleshed out in a separate thread. IMO, there are 3 elite QBs right now: Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Everyone else falls into 3 categories: franchise QB, unproven, or non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The 2nd year QBs come from as bad a class of QBs as in recent memory. I also believe Geno has a much better arm than EJ. The quality of the class has NO bearing on this. Only the quality of the individual QB. So far, this year, EJ looks quite a bit better than Geno. Who knows who will develop to be the better QB? And what makes you think you have the crystal ball to know that? All most of us ask is to recognize the progress he has made. Checks down all the time? Nope. Doesn't' throw downfield? He's done it quite a bit, actually. Locks onto one WR? I believe he has looked the safety/LB a number of times already this year. Complain about some passes that weren't perfect, if you like, But at least when you do, point out the PERFECT pass to Watkins that was a would-be TD had he held on. Yes, there is work to do? Of course. I think he's showing the ability to do whatever is asked of him--admittedly that hasn't be a lot so far. We'll see where his ceiling is. But when he gets time to throw, so far, so good. Some here have simply refused to mention the progress--are you one of those posters? I believe in praise tempered with reality and criticism balanced with praise, if any has been earned. So far, EJ has earned some praise, but in reality has much more to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The 2nd year QBs come from as bad a class of QBs as in recent memory. I also believe Geno has a much better arm than EJ. Yes because of course the arm is the be all end all of the QB position.... (Dont look now but Geno just threw another pick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The 2nd year QBs come from as bad a class of QBs as in recent memory. I also believe Geno has a much better arm than EJ. Geno does throw a better ball ... if you play on defense. If we want to talk about rankings, the conversation, IMO, needs to be fleshed out in a separate thread. IMO, there are 3 elite QBs right now: Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Everyone else falls into 3 categories: franchise QB, unproven, or non-starter. Luck is already, or will be by year's end, on that list of elite. The kid is on his way to being the best QB in the league for many, many, years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The 2 step drop and throw passes look like Losman, he is not accurate on those short slants, he will get those down though. It is a quick, rushed play to begin with, but somehow rushes it even more. I am extremely happy with his play thus far this year all in all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Luck is already, or will be by year's end, on that list of elite. The kid is on his way to being the best QB in the league for many, many, years to come. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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