GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Here is the "obvious". 66% completion percentage (11th), 7.8 ypa (10th), 95.4 passer rating (13th), a 2-1 TD-INT ratio (17th). Oh and a rushing TD to boot. That to me is doing well. It is good, not great, but to ignore the satats and say he hasn't "done well" because he has failed your eye test is not "obvious" at all. It is subjective nonsense.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Another voice of reason enters the fray. Thanks for stepping up and not being afraid to take the insults & attacks from the "I have blinders on" crowd, for just stating the obvious. 2-0. Here is the "obvious". 66% completion percentage (11th), 7.8 ypa (10th), 95.4 passer rating (13th), a 2-1 TD-INT ratio (17th). Oh and a rushing TD to boot. That to me is doing well. It is good, not great, but to ignore the satats and say he hasn't "done well" because he has failed your eye test is not "obvious" at all. It is subjective nonsense. Oh, those stats and the wins are just blinders. Look at how real quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Colin Kaepernick played. That's how you win in the NFL. You can't win games with a quarterback who plays like EJ Manuel did in these two wins.
John in Jax Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 2-0. Yep, that's good. But as has been noted several times already in this very thread, it's not because of EJ's sparkling play that the Bills have won those two games.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Yep, that's good. But as has been noted several times already in this very thread, it's not because of EJ's sparkling play that the Bills have won those two games. You're right, it's in part due to his efficiency and taking care of the ball. No QB wins alone, my friend. He is not Jimbo reincarnate. He is a guy growing into the role, and winning while doing it. We saw a lot of QBs struggle yesterday, while ours played competently against a team that just thrashed Tom frickin' Brady at home.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 I think this year's defense can do more things than last year's. That is partly the calls, it is partly the personnel and it is partly the depth. Particularly at o line, LB and WR. All 3 were upgraded significantly.
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 And this team has been built specifically so that winning or losing doesn't depend on getting sparkling play out of the Quarterback every week!! That is kind of the point of everything that Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley have tried to do in the past 5 years. Listen, we would all love it if we had a Peyton Manning back there, but we don't. We have a young kid who is now 6-6 in his twelve starts (and was up in one in which he went out and ended up a loss) and is playing good football. We are not going to get sparkling football out of EJ at this stage, at least not consistently. We are not asking him for that either.
MDH Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 I have no clue what people are complaining about. This is a generalization but there are pretty much two ways to get a QB NFL ready: 1) Let him go out there and wing it, make lots of mistakes, but also make lots of plays. It's trial by fire. This way is almost always accompanied by losing because those mistakes kill a team. or 2) Play it safe and ease him into the league. If a team happens to have a good D they can win during this learning process. Otherwise they'll likely lose more than they win. Given the two choices and the fact that the Bills have a good D who actually wants to see choice one? I wonder what the EJ haters think of Russel Wilson. Because he pretty much used this same formula to ease into his role as starting QB. Safe throws, occasionally getting big chunks, solid ST, great D. They didn't win because of his arm but he contributed much to the winning.
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 I'm convinced that a lot of the biggest EJ bashers don't actually watch a lot of other teams save for the highlights reel, hence they think a lot of other quarterbacks are flawless.
MDH Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 I'm convinced that a lot of the biggest EJ bashers don't actually watch a lot of other teams save for the highlights reel, hence they think a lot of other quarterbacks are flawless. Yeah, I'm fairly certain of this as well. HoF level QBs miss throws every single week. Every...single...week. What sets them apart from everybody else is they are extremely consistent with good throws. It doesn't mean they don't make bad ones. Of course, to get to that level of consistency it takes time. Nobody comes into the league looking like that right off the bat unless their name is Marino.
Kemp Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 He still missed two throws that were easy as pie and one of them definitely cost a touchdown. He has become a better manager and that's important, but I remain unimpressed that he will ever be good enough to be among the best. If he turns out to be consistently competent, I will be satisfied, though.
SouthernMan Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Manual isn't losing games for the Bills. That's the good news. What will be most telling in the coming weeks is if he can be the guy they can depend on to win games when it's necessary. In other words, when the defense has an off week, when there are a rash of injuries, when the team experiences bad calls from the officials, inopportune turnovers, or some other adversity, will Manual step it up and do enough to overcome those obstacles and put them in position to win? Those are the defining characteristics of elite QBs like Kelly, Elway, Brady, Manning, etc. Those are the type of QBs that are the difference makers in a 16 schedule, getting them into and advancing through the playoffs. A big thing all those QBs have in common is they're ultra-competitive and hate losing. If Rob Johnson had had Flutie's competitive streak, he might have been a decent QB. Manual doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. Not saying he doesn't want to win, but there's a difference between someone who simply wants to win and someone who absolutely does not accept losing. I haven't seen anything yet from Manual to show he's got everything it takes, but time will tell. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful that the staff is deliberately bringing him along slowly so they don't shatter his confidence. Manual may surprise us and have a breakout season, but I don't see any signs showing he's got what it takes to be elite.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Manual isn't losing games for the Bills. That's the good news. What will be most telling in the coming weeks is if he can be the guy they can depend on to win games when it's necessary. In other words, when the defense has an off week, when there are a rash of injuries, when the team experiences bad calls from the officials, inopportune turnovers, or some other adversity, will Manual step it up and do enough to overcome those obstacles and put them in position to win? Those are the defining characteristics of elite QBs like Kelly, Elway, Brady, Manning, etc. Those are the type of QBs that are the difference makers in a 16 schedule, getting them into and advancing through the playoffs. A big thing all those QBs have in common is they're ultra-competitive and hate losing. If Rob Johnson had had Flutie's competitive streak, he might have been a decent QB. Manual doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. Not saying he doesn't want to win, but there's a difference between someone who simply wants to win and someone who absolutely does not accept losing. I haven't seen anything yet from Manual to show he's got everything it takes, but time will tell. I'm skeptical, but still hopeful that the staff is deliberately bringing him along slowly so they don't shatter his confidence. Manual may surprise us and have a breakout season, but I don't see any signs showing he's got what it takes to be elite. It's Manuel. Edited September 15, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 A big thing all those QBs have in common is they're ultra-competitive and hate losing. If Rob Johnson had had Flutie's competitive streak, he might have been a decent QB. Manual doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. Not saying he doesn't want to win, but there's a difference between someone who simply wants to win and someone who absolutely does not accept losing. i can't agree with that at all. Everything you read about the kid is he is a phenomenally hard worker. He desperately wants to improve, wants to win and wants to be the best. That he doesn't scream and shout does not mean he lacks competitive tendencies. I hate it how people always presume guys who try and stay calm must not care enough about winning. Nothing could be further from the truth at all.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 A big thing all those QBs have in common is they're ultra-competitive and hate losing. If Rob Johnson had had Flutie's competitive streak, he might have been a decent QB. Manual doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. Not saying he doesn't want to win, but there's a difference between someone who simply wants to win and someone who absolutely does not accept losing. Remind me of Flutie's number of playoff wins. Also, Joe Flacco: fiery QB who doesn't accept losing, or QB who can play well enough to help his team win some hardware? Who gives a damn?
MarkAF43 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Interesting stat I heard this morning. The Bills ran 14 Red zone plays, 10 of which were runs that gained a total of 12 yards. EJ and Sammy missed on that pass (not sure who read the safety wrong, but they weren't on the same page), EJ missed on the pass to Woods, I believe he threw one away as well, which would leave one other RZ pass (which I don't recall). So while everyone is so quick to slam EJ, I would lean more towards the RZ issues as playcalling, not the play of your QB.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) You guys just don't get it. Until EVERY throw is PERFECT, EJ continues to suck, He didn't throw for 300+ yards? He sucks. I hate to see the EJ bashers stop now. Say it LOUD: He SUCKS! Some people do QB comparisons watching ESPN highlights where you never see an incompletion. Every pass is a TD. Obviously fantasy football is how these people rate players. Colin Kaepernick went to pieces last night against SF yesterday and he's held as an example of sometime better than EJ. Edited September 15, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
Dorkington Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I enjoy looking at splits... I feel like they tell more of the story: http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel He's only thrown 16 passes in the second half of games this season, compared to 31 in the first half. In the 4th quarter, he's thrown for 78% completion percentage... so being asked to not do much, but when he is called on, he's ready. On third downs he's passing for 62%, 9ypa, and almost averaging 5 ypc on keepers. In the RZ, he's 3-6, two TDs. To me, these things all speak towards someone who is improving and continuing to improve. These are clutch situations that he's performing in. Did he miss a couple passes that could have been TDs? Sure. Is he perfect? Nope. He's 12 games in, and is showing improvement, pretty steadily. Even if he stinks the place up this upcoming Sunday, to me, he's shown enough at this point to stick with developing him. Edited September 15, 2014 by Dorkington
GunnerBill Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Interesting stat I heard this morning. The Bills ran 14 Red zone plays, 10 of which were runs that gained a total of 12 yards. EJ and Sammy missed on that pass (not sure who read the safety wrong, but they weren't on the same page), EJ missed on the pass to Woods, I believe he threw one away as well, which would leave one other RZ pass (which I don't recall). So while everyone is so quick to slam EJ, I would lean more towards the RZ issues as playcalling, not the play of your QB. The 4th one was the attempted fade to Williams. It wasn't a great throw but Williams hadn't beaten his guy anyway.
aristocrat Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Ej is doing is exactly what he needs to do. Manage the game, don't turn it over and get the ball to the playmakers. The def and special teams are doing their thing. Yesterday was an incredible day full of pressure for that team and they delivered. That was about as must win as it gets with the all that happened to the franchise last week. I'm sure red zone will get the most work this week and if we can improve that we would have won by 30
ALF Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 It's even better that he is healthy and can still run when needed. At this point I would not trade him for RG 3.
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