peterpan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Stats can be misleading however, in this case they are confirming what our eyes are seeing. Ej is holding this team back, he doesn’t seem to be improving, and its not good.
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Stats can be misleading however, in this case they are confirming what our eyes are seeing. Ej is holding this team back, he doesn’t seem to be improving, and its not good. Only if we had a guy like Alex Smith....
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Stats can be misleading however, in this case they are confirming what our eyes are seeing. Ej is holding this team back, he doesn’t seem to be improving, and its not good. Actually, the stats tell us that EJ is a middle-of-the-pack QB right now, and his performance in weeks 1 and 2 was not only not holding the team back, it was actually critical for the team to win. He made key throws at the right time; that's what QBs need to do. He didn't do it in week 3, and the team didn't win. Right now, he's not good enough to put the team on his back and win a game where everything else goes wrong, like what happened on Sunday. That's what the best QBs do; he's not there right now, and it's open for debate as to whether or not he'll ever get there. That said, to say he isn't improving, when his work in weeks 1 and 2 was arguably better than he played in all of 2013, would be incorrect IMO.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 The problem with QBR(among other things) is it tries to be analytical in just that specific game. TB is by all accounts, a horrible team, we know that now but didn't at the time Carolina played them. The fact that Derek Anderson gets a higher grade for beating them than EJ gets for coming back in OT to beat the Bears, tells me all I need to know about it. It looks at specific instances in the game that were definining, why stop there, why not look at specific games that were defining or clutch as they put it.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Stats can be misleading however, in this case they are confirming what our eyes are seeing. Ej is holding this team back, he doesn’t seem to be improving, and its not good. How on earth do the Bills have two wins? The running game must be dominating? Nope. In weeks one and two the Bills moved the ball primarily on the strength of EJ and the passing game. What games have you been watching?
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Perhaps you should look at history... Whoops..... http://www.giants.co...d0-ee1a6f342625 On that one, toche! But again, I'm not wallowing in our not drafting Geno...but between the two I see Geno as a guy who tries to win and EJ as a guy who tries to not lose. How on earth do the Bills have two wins? The running game must be dominating? Nope. In weeks one and two the Bills moved the ball primarily on the strength of EJ and the passing game. What games have you been watching? I believe that the first couple wins are a result of talent. So we played a combination of good special teams, defense, and offense. The thing is we had an element of surprise...teams the Bears and Dolphins weren't sure how we'd use Sammy... They played cautious, it cost them. Now certainly EJ played good enough for us to win those two games -- but I see teams playing 8 in the box from here on out till EJ can take a game over -- and it's my opinion that EJ can't take a game over.
DrDawkinstein Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 On that one, toche! But again, I'm not wallowing in our not drafting Geno...but between the two I see Geno as a guy who tries to win and EJ as a guy who tries to not lose. By trying to win, you mean slinging it around, throwing pick-6 to start the game, and being a turn over machine by trying to force things? I also think that has to do more with coaching than the player. It's safe to assume that Ryan is preaching a "just chuck it", sink or swim type of attitude, where Marrone and Hackett are trying to bring their project QB along slowly. If given the choice of coaches for developing a QB, I'll take Marrone/Hackett over Ryan's camp every time.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 On that one, toche! But again, I'm not wallowing in our not drafting Geno...but between the two I see Geno as a guy who tries to win and EJ as a guy who tries to not lose. I believe that the first couple wins are a result of talent. So we played a combination of good special teams, defense, and offense. The thing is we had an element of surprise...teams the Bears and Dolphins weren't sure how we'd use Sammy... They played cautious, it cost them. Now certainly EJ played good enough for us to win those two games -- but I see teams playing 8 in the box from here on out till EJ can take a game over -- and it's my opinion that EJ can't take a game over. He doesn't have to take a game over, nor should it be expected. There are a handful of NFL QBs who can and none of them displayed an ability to do so after 13 career starts. Stop being unrealistic.
TC in St. Louis Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Just looked at this. 53 pages about EJ. The Buffalo Bills fans are the best.
Dorkington Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Just looked at this. 53 pages about EJ. The Buffalo Bills fans are the best. Most of the forum is about EJ, at the moment. Even threads that have nothing to do with him, turn into debate.
prissythecat Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 How on earth do the Bills have two wins? The running game must be dominating? Nope. In weeks one and two the Bills moved the ball primarily on the strength of EJ and the passing game. What games have you been watching? He is Peter Pan, so he can fly...
GG Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Most of the forum is about EJ, at the moment. Even threads that have nothing to do with him, turn into debate. Why is that a surprise? The QB is the focal point for any team. And if the QB for a play off caliber team is struggling, that's where the bulk of the talk will be.
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 He doesn't have to take a game over, nor should it be expected. There are a handful of NFL QBs who can and none of them displayed an ability to do so after 13 career starts. Stop being unrealistic. I disagree. Cam Newton did. Andrew Luck did. RGIII did. In the past 10 years we've seen QBs do it. We've also seen some like Roethlisberger take time to develop with a solid team around them. But Roethlisberger showed promise in ways EJ hasn't.
John from Riverside Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 I disagree. Cam Newton did. Andrew Luck did. RGIII did. In the past 10 years we've seen QBs do it. We've also seen some like Roethlisberger take time to develop with a solid team around them. But Roethlisberger showed promise in ways EJ hasn't. "Cam Newton did" Cam Newton has showed more then his fair share of mistakes since he has been in the league......and take a look at that team......strong defense......a stable of running backs.....christ it almost looks like US. And by the way putting the game on Cams shoulders has not shown to be getting the job done. For christ sake his veteran backup comes in and moves that team this year. RGIII......are we really going to throw RGIII into this equation? The guy cant stay healthy.....and once again a situation where his backup has now come in and probably wont relinquish that starting role.....RGIII is probably on the trading block. And then their is Andrew Luck......the number 1 overall pick that the colts completely tanked a season to get to.....and EJ Manuel a mid 1st round pick is supposed to be held to that standard...... I dont understand why YOU dont understand that this is obviously the team scheme....they know Manuel is a project with huge upside so all they want him to do right now is not LOSE games....that is not a knock on EJ Manuel the player that is what the bills are doing ON PURPOSE. Take a look at Gino last night.....yeah he slings it......to the other team. Gino makes poor decisions. The jets are backing him up with a very good defense and he just throws the ball to the other team for losses. Keep in mind that EJ BEAT the team last night that GINO lost to. And they did it by protecting the football and not losing the turnover ratio. I knew it was a matter of time before you started beating the "lets play Orton" drum......even though the team is 2-1 and EJ has actually shown obvious improvement from last year you want to sit him and bring in a very good backup (average starter) and kill any progress that EJ Manuel has made. This team needs to think longer term then that.....they dont need a few wins now so they can be right back where they started next year. They need to groom this young QB and actually have a VIABLE starter next year (hopefully we can hang onto Orton as a backup)....they need EJ to CONTINUE to progress just like he has been. One bad game does not take away from the fact that EJ is better at his deep throws....better at his sideline throws....is making better decisions....is not making taking stupid hits that would knock him out of the game and derail his season...is throwing receivers open.......basically....EJ Manuel over the course of 3 games has shown to be a better quarterback then last year. Improvement of a QB is not based on a flow chart that shows the exact improvement week to week.....it has hills and valleys. last week was a valley......the 1st two weeks were hills. Just because he isnt slinging the rock all over the field does not mean that he hasnt shown obvious improvement.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 "Cam Newton did" Cam Newton has showed more then his fair share of mistakes since he has been in the league......and take a look at that team......strong defense......a stable of running backs.....christ it almost looks like US. And by the way putting the game on Cams shoulders has not shown to be getting the job done. For christ sake his veteran backup comes in and moves that team this year. RGIII......are we really going to throw RGIII into this equation? The guy cant stay healthy.....and once again a situation where his backup has now come in and probably wont relinquish that starting role.....RGIII is probably on the trading block. And then their is Andrew Luck......the number 1 overall pick that the colts completely tanked a season to get to.....and EJ Manuel a mid 1st round pick is supposed to be held to that standard...... I dont understand why YOU dont understand that this is obviously the team scheme....they know Manuel is a project with huge upside so all they want him to do right now is not LOSE games....that is not a knock on EJ Manuel the player that is what the bills are doing ON PURPOSE. Take a look at Gino last night.....yeah he slings it......to the other team. Gino makes poor decisions. The jets are backing him up with a very good defense and he just throws the ball to the other team for losses. Keep in mind that EJ BEAT the team last night that GINO lost to. And they did it by protecting the football and not losing the turnover ratio. I knew it was a matter of time before you started beating the "lets play Orton" drum......even though the team is 2-1 and EJ has actually shown obvious improvement from last year you want to sit him and bring in a very good backup (average starter) and kill any progress that EJ Manuel has made. This team needs to think longer term then that.....they dont need a few wins now so they can be right back where they started next year. They need to groom this young QB and actually have a VIABLE starter next year (hopefully we can hang onto Orton as a backup)....they need EJ to CONTINUE to progress just like he has been. One bad game does not take away from the fact that EJ is better at his deep throws....better at his sideline throws....is making better decisions....is not making taking stupid hits that would knock him out of the game and derail his season...is throwing receivers open.......basically....EJ Manuel over the course of 3 games has shown to be a better quarterback then last year. Improvement of a QB is not based on a flow chart that shows the exact improvement week to week.....it has hills and valleys. last week was a valley......the 1st two weeks were hills. Just because he isnt slinging the rock all over the field does not mean that he hasnt shown obvious improvement. Amen ^
FireChan Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 "Cam Newton did" Cam Newton has showed more then his fair share of mistakes since he has been in the league......and take a look at that team......strong defense......a stable of running backs.....christ it almost looks like US. And by the way putting the game on Cams shoulders has not shown to be getting the job done. For christ sake his veteran backup comes in and moves that team this year. RGIII......are we really going to throw RGIII into this equation? The guy cant stay healthy.....and once again a situation where his backup has now come in and probably wont relinquish that starting role.....RGIII is probably on the trading block. And then their is Andrew Luck......the number 1 overall pick that the colts completely tanked a season to get to.....and EJ Manuel a mid 1st round pick is supposed to be held to that standard...... I dont understand why YOU dont understand that this is obviously the team scheme....they know Manuel is a project with huge upside so all they want him to do right now is not LOSE games....that is not a knock on EJ Manuel the player that is what the bills are doing ON PURPOSE. Take a look at Gino last night.....yeah he slings it......to the other team. Gino makes poor decisions. The jets are backing him up with a very good defense and he just throws the ball to the other team for losses. Keep in mind that EJ BEAT the team last night that GINO lost to. And they did it by protecting the football and not losing the turnover ratio. I knew it was a matter of time before you started beating the "lets play Orton" drum......even though the team is 2-1 and EJ has actually shown obvious improvement from last year you want to sit him and bring in a very good backup (average starter) and kill any progress that EJ Manuel has made. This team needs to think longer term then that.....they dont need a few wins now so they can be right back where they started next year. They need to groom this young QB and actually have a VIABLE starter next year (hopefully we can hang onto Orton as a backup)....they need EJ to CONTINUE to progress just like he has been. One bad game does not take away from the fact that EJ is better at his deep throws....better at his sideline throws....is making better decisions....is not making taking stupid hits that would knock him out of the game and derail his season...is throwing receivers open.......basically....EJ Manuel over the course of 3 games has shown to be a better quarterback then last year. Improvement of a QB is not based on a flow chart that shows the exact improvement week to week.....it has hills and valleys. last week was a valley......the 1st two weeks were hills. Just because he isnt slinging the rock all over the field does not mean that he hasnt shown obvious improvement. Newton had one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history. What are you talking about?
Green Lightning Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Some civility please. Another 50-plus pages of this won't change where we are. EJ is our QB for the foreseeable future and like it or not, we have a front row seat to his maturation or his demise. Enjoy the positives and B word at the negatives-that's our right as fans. Right now I'm bitching, but in perspective. I still believe this still can work with EJ. I also believe it can go south in a major way. We have to play this out and getting nasty with each other doesn't seem to be a constructive thing to be doing.
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Some civility please. Another 50-plus pages of this won't change where we are. EJ is our QB for the foreseeable future and like it or not, we have a front row seat to his maturation or his demise. Enjoy the positives and B word at the negatives-that's our right as fans. Right now I'm bitching, but in perspective. I still believe this still can work with EJ. I also believe it can go south in a major way. We have to play this out and getting nasty with each other doesn't seem to be a constructive thing to be doing. Agreed--I hope I have maintained proper decorum in this thread. I think I have, but you never know how typed words get received, so this is a welcomed wake-up call. I'm also in continue-to-wait-and-see mode on EJ. 2 good, 1 bad...let's see what's next.
DrDawkinstein Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 No one in their right mind should compare EJ to Newton and Luck. Those are clear-cut #1 overall QB talents. Manuel was NEVER hyped or advertised to be that type of guy. He's a 2-3 year project with 13 games under his belt. That is the reality, like it or not.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Some civility please. Another 50-plus pages of this won't change where we are. EJ is our QB for the foreseeable future and like it or not, we have a front row seat to his maturation or his demise. Enjoy the positives and B word at the negatives-that's our right as fans. Right now I'm bitching, but in perspective. I still believe this still can work with EJ. I also believe it can go south in a major way. We have to play this out and getting nasty with each other doesn't seem to be a constructive thing to be doing. Indeed. I'm done with this topic until we have another game to look at. I've said my piece and don't expect everyone to agree. Go Bills.
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