To all of the EJ bashers

[26CornerBlitz]

But that's the thing. Even though EJ had a decent game, I don't think that he had the type of game that would get his critics on the bandwagon, which is to be more of a complete QB.

 

The comparison to Geno can't go on, because they have completely different flaws. Geno can't move the ball between the 20's, is erratic, but can throw a beautiful ball to Kerley and Decker for the scores. EJ is the opposite at this point, and makes far less mistakes.

 

Pick which QB will have superior improvement on the flaws.

 

I'll counter your point with the picture perfect bomb to Sammy that was just broken up by Grimes and the beautifully thrown pass to Chandler along the left sideline that was initially ruled incomplete but challenged by Marrone.

 

EJ is very much improved.

[Homey D. Clown]

 

A perfectly reasonable perspective, IMO.

 

Thank you very kindly!

[GG]

I'll counter your point with the picture perfect bomb to Sammy that was just broken up by Grimes and the beautifully thrown pass to Chandler along the left sideline that was initially ruled incomplete but challenged by Marrone.

 

EJ is very much improved.

 

To quibble on this, in a perfectly thrown pass, a DB wouldn't be in a position for a break up, no matter how great the DBs effort.

 

EJ is improving, but not quite there yet to silence the criticism.

[Captain Hindsight]

The only way to truly watch and evaluate QB play is the all-22.

What about comparing it to Jordan palmers footwork on one pass attempt in a video?

[K-9]

I'll counter your point with the picture perfect bomb to Sammy that was just broken up by Grimes and the beautifully thrown pass to Chandler along the left sideline that was initially ruled incomplete but challenged by Marrone.

 

EJ is very much improved.

 

I guess the "beautiful ball thrown for the scores" that EJ threw in his very first game to Woods and Stevie vs. the Pats* didn't happen (and the Woods TD was a direct result of looking off the safety which made both the S and CB bite on Chandler). Or how about the long post to Woods for a TD in the Raven's game? He showed this ability in his first few games as a pro. It's fair to think that if he hadn't gotten injured we would have seen more of it, too. Funny how quickly people forget things.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Deranged Rhino]

season ticket holders get NFL Rewind for FREE.

 

Didn't know that, thanks!

 

What about comparing it to Jordan palmers footwork on one pass attempt in a video?

 

:lol:

[yungmack]

Upon rerunning the game, there are 3 plays I want to mention. On the first red zone, EJ made a horrible pass to Woods who would have scored with a decent throw. On the plays leading up to the 3rd FG, they needed a first down. EJ made a medicre pass to Sammy that, had it been better, looked like it would have easily led to a first and maybe more. And in I think the fourth quarter, EJ had Sammy (might have been someone else) playing off the line to his left. As soon as the ball was snapped, EJ turned to make the quick throw. Problem was, three defenders were prepared to level the receiver so instead of firing the ball to the receiver, EJ threw it into the ground at his feet. That decision spoke volumes to me. There are many QBs who would have taken the easy reception even if it lost yards and got the receiver knocked silly. That EJ correctly diagnosed the situation and made the right choice, all in a split second, really got me excited.

[John from Riverside]

We disagree.

 

I think the original sentiment of the OP is off-base because he is operating under the erroneous assumption that if we have any criticisms of EJ, we are therefore bashers. The premise of the thread is wrong and meant to provoke strong opinions.

 

Don't whine when you get these opinions.

 

If only that were true then the "bashers" would mostly be in line with those who are actually talking positively about EJ

 

That is NOT what is happening......these select few bashers are saying EJ Manuel is a poor QB......NEVER talking about the strides he has made and ONLY talking about the negative they can dig up

 

This is happening

[26CornerBlitz]

I guess the "beautiful ball thrown for the scores" that EJ threw in his very first game to Woods and Stevie vs. the Pats* didn't happen (and the Woods TD was a direct result of looking off the safety which made both the S and CB bite on Chandler). Or how about the long post to Woods for a TD in the Raven's game? He showed this ability in his first few games as a pro. It's fair to think that if he hadn't gotten injured we would have seen more of it, too. Funny how quickly people forget things.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

[John from Riverside]

Upon rerunning the game, there are 3 plays I want to mention. On the first red zone, EJ made a horrible pass to Woods who would have scored with a decent throw. On the plays leading up to the 3rd FG, they needed a first down. EJ made a medicre pass to Sammy that, had it been better, looked like it would have easily led to a first and maybe more. And in I think the fourth quarter, EJ had Sammy (might have been someone else) playing off the line to his left. As soon as the ball was snapped, EJ turned to make the quick throw. Problem was, three defenders were prepared to level the receiver so instead of firing the ball to the receiver, EJ threw it into the ground at his feet. That decision spoke volumes to me. There are many QBs who would have taken the easy reception even if it lost yards and got the receiver knocked silly. That EJ correctly diagnosed the situation and made the right choice, all in a split second, really got me excited.

 

Yung thank you for this

 

I think it shows an objective look at EJ both positive and negative and shows areas where he actually is progressing. Last year EJ through some balls where WR's took bad licks because he led them into hits from defenders......last night I watched Andrew Luck (who just about everyone considers a better QB at this point) throw a ball that led his reciever right into a vicious hit........

[BillsVet]

EJ Manuel : NFL completion percentage - 59.9%; NFL Interceptions - 10

Geno Smith : NFL completion percentage - 56.9%; NFL Interceptions - 23

 

Robert Woods made a phenomenal catch versus Chicago. It goes down as a completion, despite being thrown high. A screen pass that loses a yard is a completion as well, so think you've gotta look more deeply than the completion percentage statistic, say for example on throws from 11-20 yards or however ESPN breaks it down. That's a deeper analysis.

 

 

If only that were true then the "bashers" would mostly be in line with those who are actually talking positively about EJ

 

That is NOT what is happening......these select few bashers are saying EJ Manuel is a poor QB......NEVER talking about the strides he has made and ONLY talking about the negative they can dig up

 

This is happening

 

Just so I'm aware, what is the official TBD definition of a "basher?" Because these debates leave people ready to bash their head in, oh, wait...

 

We need definitions on the following terms: hater, realist, optimist, negative, etc. Until then it's hard to appropriately use recently invented terminology.

 

For example, is one a "basher" if EJ throws for under 300 yards but has a completion percentage above 60%? Or is that a hater?

[Lurker]

The awesome thing about being an EJ "realist" is that you get to move the goalposts whenever you want.

Ain't it the truth...although I suspect that trait runs a lot deeper than just a critique of E.J.'s performance.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Robert Woods made a phenomenal catch versus Chicago. It goes down as a completion, despite being thrown high. A screen pass that loses a yard is a completion as well, so think you've gotta look more deeply than the completion percentage statistic, say for example on throws from 11-20 yards or however ESPN breaks it down. That's a deeper analysis.

 

 

 

 

Just so I'm aware, what is the official TBD definition of a "basher?" Because these debates leave people ready to bash their head in, oh, wait...

 

We need definitions on the following terms: hater, realist, optimist, negative, etc. Until then it's hard to appropriately use recently invented terminology.

 

For example, is one a "basher" if EJ throws for under 300 yards but has a completion percentage above 60%? Or is that a hater?

Forget the titles. If you've written EJ off already, you're being short-sighted. If you think he is the second coming, you don't exist, because nobody has ever said that.

 

I see three camps:

1) people who think he has superb potential that he is meeting at times, but has a ways to go

2) people who are skeptical, but hope for the best

3) people who think he'll never be a good QB. They usually use "facts" like "the eye test" and "can't read defenses" and "progressions" and "slow eyes" and a bunch of sh-- that they heard Todd McShay say.

 

Camp #3 is treading water right now because they are thinking in absolutes. Camps #1 and 2 could be characterized as reasonable, even if they disagree.

[BillsVet]

Forget the titles. If you've written EJ off already, you're being short-sighted. If you think he is the second coming, you don't exist, because nobody has ever said that.

 

I see three camps:

1) people who think he has superb potential that he is meeting at times, but has a ways to go

2) people who are skeptical, but hope for the best

3) people who think he'll never be a good QB. They usually use "facts" like "the eye test" and "can't read defenses" and "progressions" and "slow eyes" and a bunch of sh-- that they heard Todd McShay say.

 

Camp #3 is treading water right now because they are thinking in absolutes. Camps #1 and 2 could be characterized as reasonable, even if they disagree.

 

Where and when did I write him off?

 

I just wanted to know what I am.

[Dorkington]

To quibble on this, in a perfectly thrown pass, a DB wouldn't be in a position for a break up, no matter how great the DBs effort.

 

EJ is improving, but not quite there yet to silence the criticism.

 

That's BS, sorry. Sometimes a DB will be in position to break up any ball that could be completed to the WR. That's what good DBs are paid to do.

[GG]

That's BS, sorry. Sometimes a DB will be in position to break up any ball that could be completed to the WR. That's what good DBs are paid to do.

 

Then it's not a perfectly thrown ball, especially when the WR has one step on the DB. That's the whole point of a perfectly thrown ball - you take the defenders' positioning away with the placement of the pass. There are only two possibilities. Either the receiver catches it or he drops it. Otherwise it's not a perfectly thrown ball, and then it's a battle between the WR & the DB.

[John in Jax]

My response to you Jax was rather immature and for that I do apologize. Please do provide us your insight

 

Well, as I've already stated, my initial post in this thread was just me agreeing with two other posters about EJ's shortcomings (See Post #38). PLEASE GO BACK AND READ POST #38.....I defy anyone to say that "Stopthepain" is off the mark with his calculated assessment of EJ.

 

The fact is that I agreed with "Stopthepain's" post, where he stated that EJ is "nothing more than a game manager." In this thread, we've seen many of EJ's supporters feeling just fine with that notion. Sorry, but I don't agree with, or want that role for a Bills QB. I'd like a real QB.

 

I also agreed with "sullim4" who stated that the Bills' red zone production was a big concern. I pointed out that of course, the QB (EJ) has a very prominent role in red zone operations.

 

Any yes, I did take a pejorative shot at all those EJ fanatics who have blinders on, and who are running high on emotion because of the 2 Wins. Sorry about that (even though it's true...LOL).

[Formerly Allan in MD]

EJ has to settle down in the zone. Too much adrenelin can lead to some really poor throws, as he exemplifies. Hopefully he'll grow in time.

[John from Riverside]

Where and when did I write him off?

 

I just wanted to know what I am.

 

Only you can answer that Vet

[Dorkington]

Then it's not a perfectly thrown ball, especially when the WR has one step on the DB. That's the whole point of a perfectly thrown ball - you take the defenders' positioning away with the placement of the pass. There are only two possibilities. Either the receiver catches it or he drops it. Otherwise it's not a perfectly thrown ball, and then it's a battle between the WR & the DB.

 

So your assumption is that a WR is always open if the QB throws the ball "perfectly"?

 

I don't even know where to start on how much I disagree with that.

 

It's ridiculous to the point where I actually have no argument that I can make, heh. This isn't even about EJ, but simply about football in general. Even the most perfect pass won't be completed if the DB covers the WR. Instead, a "perfect" QB wouldn't throw the ball if he recognizes coverage. But sometimes DBs disguise their coverage with a bit of space, or hand off to another DB in waiting. The perfect pass gives the WR the best *chance* at catching the ball against the coverage. If a DB makes the correct play, or is in position, then you get an incompletion.