TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Anyone who says "let's see EJ on that team!" to piss on Russell Wilson's success just plain doesn't understand football. The worst part of being a Bills fan for the past 15 years has been arguing with delusional people about horrible QBs. At least there is still hope that the Bills finally hit on one with EJ, even though it looks bad right now.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Anyone who says "let's see EJ on that team!" to piss on Russell Wilson's success just plain doesn't understand football. The worst part of being a Bills fan for the past 15 years has been arguing with delusional people about horrible QBs. At least there is still hope that the Bills finally hit on one with EJ, even though it looks bad right now. And people who just pretend like Wilson doesn't benefit from one of the best defenses in years are just as delusional and don't understand football. Edited September 5, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
OCinBuffalo Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Anyone who says "let's see EJ on that team!" to piss on Russell Wilson's success just plain doesn't understand football. The worst part of being a Bills fan for the past 15 years has been arguing with delusional people about horrible QBs. At least there is still hope that the Bills finally hit on one with EJ, even though it looks bad right now. My question: why does it seem we have to hang the 13 years prior to last year and this one on: 1. Whaley 2. Marrone 3. EJ ? As Bills fans, we got what we wanted when we got rid of Polian, then, Ole Whitey, and then Donahoe. And the Benevolent Order of NFL/Media Protection Club has taken every opportunity to crap on us, and scare the hell out of anyone who would take the job, ever since. Now? We have a bunch of new guys who are clearly doing quite well with what they were handed, and/or clearly busting their asses to be better. Why does our, age-old problem with Ralph/Donahoe/Butler/Polian/Marv Levy/Chris Mortensen et al......have to be their problem? It seems illogical to me, to speak in terms of 15 years, when 2 years, last year and this one, is all that truly matters. Our war with the NFL/Big Markets/ESPN/The Old Boys Club that says you don't fire Bill Polian AND Bum Phillip's son.....has nothing to do with who is leading the Buffalo Bills now. Edited September 5, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
#34fan Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 All the OP is saying is that it has become obvious that certain "intangibles" are worth more in the long run than some "measurables" these LAZY, WORTHLESS, scouts and STUBBORN GM's live and die by.... Time to try a different approach to the drafting process... START with an athletes production, effectiveness, and attitude, and END with all the hearsay, and stopwatch B.S. Here are a few college Athletes, the Bills ought to give FUTURE consideration. Sammy Coates, WR, Auburn Cody Prewitt, LB, Ole Miss Myles Jack, two-way weapon, UCLA Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor Gary Nova, QB, Rutgers Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas Just a few kids that are lookin' promising..... Hopefully we won't miss-out on too many more Marquis players.
OCinBuffalo Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 All the OP is saying is that it has become obvious that certain "intangibles" are worth more in the long run than some "measurables" these LAZY, WORTHLESS, scouts and STUBBORN GM's live and die by.... Time to try a different approach to the drafting process... START with an athletes production, effectiveness, and attitude, and END with all the hearsay, and stopwatch B.S. Here are a few college Athletes, the Bills ought to give FUTURE consideration. Sammy Coates, WR, Auburn Cody Prewitt, LB, Ole Miss Myles Jack, two-way weapon, UCLA Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor Gary Nova, QB, Rutgers Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas Just a few kids that are lookin' promising..... Hopefully we won't miss-out on too many more Marquis players. IF you are interested in quantifying "production, effectiveness, and attitude", and have a reasonable methodology for doing so, I'd be willing to help with the math/stats/modeling.
#34fan Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 IF you are interested in quantifying "production, effectiveness, and attitude", and have a reasonable methodology for doing so, I'd be willing to help with the math/stats/modeling. For what? -Lightning in a bottle? It's a saying of mine...There is NO stat for STUD. It can't easily be quantified... You know it, when you see it, or you don't.
TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) So Russell Wilson is not really a great young QB and if EJ just had that defense..... Facts: Wilson tied Manning's rookie TD passing record. Wilson has had a QB rating of over 100 both years he has been in the league. Wilson is the only QB other than Cunningham to rush for 1000+ yards and throw for 50+ TD in his first two seasons. Wilson led his team to a Super Bowl win his 2nd season. Wilson is a smart, dual threat QB who is extremely athletic and can beat you in many ways. EJ is a hardworking and likeable guy who cannot complete simple NFL throws on a consistent basis. The truth hurts. Edited September 5, 2014 by TheFunPolice
mdk Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 One bad decision led to several more bad decisions. Trading Lynch meant we used a #1 on Spiller. If we hadn't we could have taken Dez Bryant. If we had Dez Bryant we wouldn't have needed TJ Graham, and we could have picked up Wilson in that round to be mentored by Ryan Fitzpatrick. +1
SJDK Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 We could have had joe Montana or Brady or Tebow ...lmao smh
TheFunPolice Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) My question: why does it seem we have to hang the 13 years prior to last year and this one on: 1. Whaley 2. Marrone 3. EJ ? As Bills fans, we got what we wanted when we got rid of Polian, then, Ole Whitey, and then Donahoe. And the Benevolent Order of NFL/Media Protection Club has taken every opportunity to crap on us, and scare the hell out of anyone who would take the job, ever since. Now? We have a bunch of new guys who are clearly doing quite well with what they were handed, and/or clearly busting their asses to be better. Why does our, age-old problem with Ralph/Donahoe/Butler/Polian/Marv Levy/Chris Mortensen et al......have to be their problem? It seems illogical to me, to speak in terms of 15 years, when 2 years, last year and this one, is all that truly matters. Our war with the NFL/Big Markets/ESPN/The Old Boys Club that says you don't fire Bill Polian AND Bum Phillip's son.....has nothing to do with who is leading the Buffalo Bills now. Bills fans demanded the firing of Bill Polian? lol Bills message boards are truly bizarro world There is no debate. Russell Wilson IS one of the top young QBs in the game. Trying to argue otherwise is a waste of time. Edited September 5, 2014 by TheFunPolice
mdk Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Put Manuel into Carroll's scheme and playcalling and put Wilson with Hackett/Marrone Wouldn't matter. Wilson processes the game twice as fast as EJ.
Dean Cain Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Is that 12" madden player up for us trading for him?
OCinBuffalo Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Bills fans demanded the firing of Bill Polian? lol Bills message boards are truly bizarro world There is no debate. Russell Wilson IS one of the top young QBs in the game. Trying to argue otherwise is a waste of time. How long have you been a Bills fan? After the 3rd SB loss, Polian's so-called altercation with an employee is the convenient excuse, but a very large # of fans wanted somebody fired. They couldn't bring themselves to part with Marv, but they sure as hell could be done with Polian. That's largely because, back then, maybe 10% of fans actually knew what a GM did/anything about the draft. Consider: They used to hold it in a hotel conference room. Bizarro world? No, sir. My rebuttal of Revisionist History. There are a whole lot of Bills fans who know damn well they cheered when Polian was fired. If you lived it, the anger around WNY was palpable. Nobody knew what to do/think/say. Irrationality was the order of the day. Why do you think the famous Houston Oiler's comeback game(4th SB playoff run)....was blacked out? Time, as they say heals all wounds. Unfortunately, it also allows more than a few people to gradually BS themselves and others. In this case: into believing they never wanted Polian fied, and weren't saying "See? We don't need Polian!" when Butler sent a 1st and a 4th and got Rob Johnson from Jacksonville, and paid him $25 mil in 1998. You want to see what a REAL bizzarro world on this board would look like? Imagine us trading this year's 1st and a 4th for a backup QB who played less than half a season, was already injury prone, and dropping a 5-year, $50.5(1998 adjusted $ + 10 mil because that's reality) million, front loaded, 80% guaranteed....bomb on our salary cap, causing us to have to let both Dareus and Spiller go UFA. And this guy? Is like a combination of Tony Romo ability+choking, but also Trentative, with a decent arm, but who constantly hurts himself due to....running. That my friend, is bizzaro world. Let's keep things in perspective, shall we? Edited September 5, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
Rob's House Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Are there actually Bills fans defending the failure to draft Russell Wilson? Are we really going to pretend it's 20/20 hindsight when half the board was completely stoked when they heard we'd moved up because we figured Wilson was the obvious pick? To me that blunder ranks right up there with benching Flutie, dropping Bledsoe, and drafting Maybin. It was !@#$ing stupid. Only the most irrationally blinded of ODB apologists could possibly defend that move. Edited September 5, 2014 by Rob's House
OCinBuffalo Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 For what? -Lightning in a bottle? It's a saying of mine...There is NO stat for STUD. It can't easily be quantified... You know it, when you see it, or you don't. Then....you are an "intution" type scout? Come now, you mentioned "attitude". How am I supposed to determine "attitude" from one meeting that lasts .5 hours? This isn't poker. The stakes are a lot higher. How do we know we aren't being lied to? Worse, how do we know the other people telling us about this player's attitude aren't biasing things with their own perceptions? Worst of all, how do we know that the same day we talk to this coach or that, he isn't having an attitude problem himself? Double worst of all, how do we know favorites aren't being played/haven't been, for years? I do have a "quantifiable" suggestion, a methodology even! Set up a confidential, controlled study of randomly sampled "functional persons" in and around various college football programs, and ask them questions about how each prospect player treats them/others on a daily basis. Also, ask them if they ever ask for help, with anything. Why? Asking for help is a sure sign of knowing one's limitations, but also, knowing where to go/whom to ask to overcome them, and most importantly giving enough of a crap to try to get better, and not just settle for what is. I can think of no more necessary trait to find in rookie NFL football player(or a rookie anything for that matter). Collect the same data once a semester, every semester. I guarantee you my quantifiable "attitude" results will beat your "intuition" 99/100 times.
Agent 91 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I'd rather switch OC's with Seattle instead. Couldn't have said it better
Agent 91 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I don't know if any of you caught it..... .....but Russel Wilson had a ball tipped(more like blocked) at the line of scrimmage tonight! Thus, using the logic I've heard here, either: 1. Russel Wilson should be run out of Seattle, because, well, a ball was blocked at the line....which is indicative...of something being wrong with the QB, like EJ, or so we were told week 1 of preseason. 2. Short QBs can't play in the NFL, because they can't see over the line/get their balls tipped/blocked. Therefore, EJ, being tall is the right choice for a QB. Speaking of inaccuracy, both QBs threw many inaccurate passes, it's just that Wilson's was knocked away after it was picked, and Rob Johnson's(oops, I mean Aaron Rodger's) wasn't. Not to mention, both QBs threw an awful lot of SHORT PASSES/CHECK DOWNS! Thus, clearly, both QBs sucked horribly by the "WGR/TSW Bureau of Standards and Measures": Rodgers: 5.3 yards per attempt(oh the terror!) Wilson: 6.8 yards per attempt(almost as Bad!) (Ahem, EJ Manuel's yards per attempt in the preseason? 6.3 :lol: ) Clearly, with yards per attempt numbers like these, as set by the astute sages of analyitcs both here and at WGR, both teams should be looking to use their 1st round draft pick next year(which will be in the 20s) on a QB that is clearly better than these 2, because, of course, one will be available to draft at those spots, and, because.....did I mention analytics? Yes, all sound an fury....indicative of: absolutely nothing. No propensities, no relationships, and sure as hell no causality. Yards per attempt is a completely useless statistic, because it simply does not account for the inherent bias that is baked in by the offensive schemes/concepts...gameplans!, for Christ's sake!, that are being run, nor does it account for situational conditions(such as Rodgers throwing for 20 yards down the field in garbage time). It doesn't even account for the F'ing weather. Yeah....and I'm supposed to believe that this is a "standard of measure"? But, by all means, keep saying it! I have all sorts of fun things lined up for you if you choose to continue down this path! BHWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I love confounding the amatuer "master statisticians" with their own buffoonery. Please continue with this, I don't want what I've been working on to go to waste! Words out of my own mouth. Wilson ok maybe he is over rated maybe not. I qualify that because he has only been 3 years. But no one will argue that Aaron Rodgers is top 3 in this league. I saw everything that people on this board complain about happen in that game. How many passes were off target; under thrown, over thrown, almost intercepted. How may times did we see a drink and dunk. I remember specifically in the 4th qtr the analyst said Rodger has goneb11-14 on throws under 11 yards... WITH NO YAC. Then only huge difference between what they do and what we do is they throw the ball down field to keep the defense honest. But lets face it. Unless Watkins is something like Percy Havin, expecting this team to be able to do what we saw on thursday night is insane. EJ is a west coast offense qb so he will not be airing it out 5-10 times a game. If the offense had a self determined identity, they would play much better.
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Started at 27 and ended up at 9 throughout the season. Curious were the bills started and finished? According to what? They had nearly identical YPC to the Bills and allowed just as many QB hits. You say "ended up 9th"...in what metric?
filthymcnasty08 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 And people who just pretend like Wilson doesn't benefit from one of the best defenses in years are just as delusional and don't understand football. You do not amass a 100+ QBR over your first 2 years courtesy of your defense.
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