C.Biscuit97 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I don't need to provide you with a source and quite frankly don't really give a hoot as to whether you have seen a report let alone believe it. PTR confirmed that Wawrow has even suggested it and it's safe to say he's quite close to the team. If he's so close, why does he never break a Bills story? I have not heard one report of this. Pretty BS to report this if you have no proof. And if you do, I will gladly apologize.
Agent 91 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I am not doubting this but where was it reported? IF this is true and i mean that the reports are accurate then this stinks. However if these are the same Vets who endorsed Fitz, well...maybe they should stick to playing not scouting. I hope these weren't offensive linemen. Because outside of Cordy I cant name one who has measured up. Freddy has gotten hung out to dry a few times. So lets see how that interaction plays out. But there are a few guys that need to do a self evaluation before they voice opinions on other guys.
Agent 91 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I'm glad of the Orton pick-up. I think we made a mistake ditching Thad. If this is considered a "panic" move, it is because the FO didn't see a single, viable back-up on the roster. Personally, I see the coaching staff looking too much at the preseason, and not enough from last season. Thad did alright by us, given the situation he stepped into last season. That shouldn't be so easily discounted. The funny part about what you said in regards to a single viable QB on this roster. We have EJ and he is SUPPOSED to still be a backup. Remember he was supposed to be a project with a sky high ceiling. The FO blunder is that they had a plan and didn't see it through. Im tired of him being a whipping boy. Why didnt the FO protect their investment and bring in at least. AT LEAST someone who could challenge for the start. Draft someone. Look at a QUALITY short term free agent. Groom your guy. Instead they decide to play status quo. Let Wilson die, and now theybare afraid. They are scared for their jobs now. We are in panic, rush, knee jerk mode. Its sickening.
Maury Ballstein Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I don't need to provide you with a source and quite frankly don't really give a hoot as to whether you have seen a report let alone believe it. PTR confirmed that Wawrow has even suggested it and it's safe to say he's quite close to the team. Which salty veteran went to Marrone and said get that EJ out of here ? You do need a link, no one needs to hear made up stories. Edited September 5, 2014 by Ryan L Billz
bowery4 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) 1. Timing. The Bills failed to secure a viable backup during the offseason, maintaining that they were happy with Tuel and Lewis. This wasn't posturing, either. Their failure to bring in another QB during the draft or address it during free agency suggests that they were happy with what they had. That changed very quickly after Lewis and Tuel's collectively disastrous preseason and camp. “We’re very happy with Thad Lewis,” said Whaley. “One of the things that Russ Brandon said that John Butler always told him is, in your backup quarterback, you want a guy to go .500. Now, he went 2-3, is that good enough? Obviously not, you’d rather him go 5-0, but we’re very comfortable with him.” - Doug Whaley during the scouting combine on taking second-hand personnel advice from a marketing executive 2. New ownership situation. Ironic that Whaley's quote of stupidity referenced above was before Ralph Wilson passed away, when his job was iron-clad secure as Russ's hand-picked guy. Once Ralph passed away, the front office realized they can't afford another season of failure -- hence the go-for-broke trade giving up next year's 1st rounder and hence their willingness to pay Orton $5M per year. 3. EJ. The hope was for EJ to make a gigantic leap this season. There's no doubt that this could still happen, but early indications are not good. Numerous reports have suggested veteran players walking into Marrone's office and informing him that EJ is simply not good enough. Failure to address the position would have lost the locker room. So yes, in my view the Orton signing has panic written all over it. I am not doubting this but where was it reported? IF this is true and i mean that the reports are accurate then this stinks. However if these are the same Vets who endorsed Fitz, well...maybe they should stick to playing not scouting. Source, please? If there are indeed "numerous reports" it should not be difficult to provide some quotations or at least linkies. Otherwise we will have to take this for simply what Dawgg " thinkies" I read a lot about the Bills and I haven't seen this suggested anywhere. I don't need to provide you with a source and quite frankly don't really give a hoot as to whether you have seen a report let alone believe it. PTR confirmed that Wawrow has even suggested it and it's safe to say he's quite close to the team. PTR said Wawrow HINTED at that and as much as I like his reports and participation on the board, anyone can speculate... and not be right about it. Show a link or your rep is discounted and rightly so. And I don't care if if you don't care. Btw you had no problem quoting Whaley up top. Show us and you win us over, otherwise it is just another, this agenda fits my opinion post. Lastly one thing it shows that you are not giving them credit for is faith that the 2 back ups would improve and some loyalty to their guys. At least until they could and did replace them with someone who is clearly a better option at that point. Edited September 5, 2014 by bowery4
mattsox Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 http://profootballta...ng-their-heads/ I like Florio, but I love how this is not really a "Cowboys got Screwed" thing, but rather a "Bills took the bait", "roll the dice" "break-glass-in-case-of-emergency" and comments at the end along the lines that there is no real concern if he comes in and isn't ready. Even if Orton is half asleep this year we upgraded our back-up QB position from what we had and did so with money that we have a lot of. I know we may have a long history of bad decisions, bu brother, this is not one of them even if some want to twist it that way. I am sorry if someone else linked to this article and I missed it earlier. Additionally, Mods please feel free to merge this if you feel it belongs in another thread. ...I read it and couldn't help but post as it bugged me. Orton is a backup QB. If he comes in for any reason, Manuel's done as far as I'm concerned. Which is probably a better than 75% chance that happens.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Orton is a backup QB. If he comes in for any reason, Manuel's done as far as I'm concerned. Which is probably a better than 75% chance that happens. How did you arrive at this likelihood?
negativo Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Why would anyone suggest that cutting 3 backup quarterbacks and signing a $5 million journeyman the week of the season opener is a sign of panic? Why would anyone suggest EJ's awful preseason following his poor rookie campaign has management and players fearful he will bust? As Kevin Bacon would say at the Faber College parade, "Move along. All is well. Nothing to see here."
Dawgg Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 PTR said Wawrow HINTED at that and as much as I like his reports and participation on the board, anyone can speculate... and not be right about it. Show a link or your rep is discounted and rightly so. And I don't care if if you don't care. Btw you had no problem quoting Whaley up top. Show us and you win us over, otherwise it is just another, this agenda fits my opinion post. Lastly one thing it shows that you are not giving them credit for is faith that the 2 back ups would improve and some loyalty to their guys. At least until they could and did replace them with someone who is clearly a better option at that point. Report from Jason Cole: <iframe src="https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://twitter.com/JasonPhilCole/status/503281788920553472" data-controller="core.front.core.autosizeiframe" data-embedid="abb805ff23651fcdb44cafabcb01f7ff" allowfullscreen=""> " data-controller="core.front.core.autosizeiframe" data-embedId='f01107853aff54cf3e813f6b9dd1a684' allowfullscreen=''> I've seen it elsewhere, but like I previously mentioned, I don't care about proving anything to you. Thanks If he's so close, why does he never break a Bills story? I have not heard one report of this. Pretty BS to report this if you have no proof. And if you do, I will gladly apologize. It's a catch-22, right? In order to stay close to the Bills' brass, you can't really violate their trust and break inside info can you? Unlike reporters with a national scope, he can't really write about other teams -- so alienate the Bills, and his bread and butter is gone. Thus, he walks a fine line. A mere implication from someone like him so close to the team carries weight IMO. Jason Cole reported this also: https://twitter.com/JasonPhilCole/status/503281788920553472
The Dean Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Report from Jason Cole: https://twitter.com/...281788920553472 I've seen it elsewhere, but like I previously mentioned, I don't care about proving anything to you. Thanks It's a catch-22, right? In order to stay close to the Bills' brass, you can't really violate their trust and break inside info can you? Unlike reporters with a national scope, he can't really write about other teams -- so alienate the Bills, and his bread and butter is gone. Thus, he walks a fine line. A mere implication from someone like him so close to the team carries weight IMO. Jason Cole reported this also: https://twitter.com/...281788920553472 For what it's worth, I've only seen this reported by Cole, and the Cole report cited a few times. I don't believe it has been "widely reported".
26CornerBlitz Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 For what it's worth, I've only seen this reported by Cole, and the Cole report cited a few times. I don't believe it has been "widely reported". I find this Cole report difficult to believe when you consider the Bills hiring of QB coach Downing and what we've heard directly from OBD via Whaley, Marrone, Hackett, et al
Best Player Available Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 let's hope some players and other coaches. are going into Marrones office and saying Downing sucks. So far looking really hard to see improvement in the only one of three remaining QB's who experienced his "coaching" this year.
The Dean Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I find this Cole report difficult to believe when you consider the Bills hiring of QB coach Downing and what we've heard directly from OBD via Whaley, Marrone, Hackett, et al Oh, I think the Cole report is pure conjecture and likely nonsense. Just look at the report. Claims Marrone "was told by several players/staffers...at the end of 2013". Had Cole gotten this information when it was fresh, he would have reported it then, right? In fact it should have been "widely reported" at the end of the year, if there were any substance to it. But furthermore, how does Cole get information about "several players/staffers"? Surely Marrone could have been a source, as he would have knowledge of the various players/staffers he speaks with. Do you think he got this information from Marrone? Perhaps those players/staffers came to Marrone as a unit (at the same time). But then I would have expected that to leak quickly and wide, had that information been available close to the event. I have no idea where Cole got the information, as he doesn't even cite the unnamed "source with close ties to the Bills" (for example). A rumor he heard "in the wind", perhaps. Hear it enough times and it must be true, right? Former coach, player? Perhaps, but then again one needs to take a source like that with a grain of salt---and source it as such "former Bills employee". An irresponsible Tweet, as is, I think.
The Big Cat Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Oh, I think the Cole report is pure conjecture and likely nonsense. Just look at the report. Claims Marrone "was told by several players/staffers...at the end of 2013". Had Cole gotten this information when it was fresh, he would have reported it then, right? In fact it should have been "widely reported" at the end of the year, if there were any substance to it. But furthermore, how does Cole get information about "several players/staffers"? Surely Marrone could have been a source, as he would have knowledge of the various players/staffers he speaks with. Do you think he got this information from Marrone? Perhaps those players/staffers came to Marrone as a unit (at the same time). But then I would have expected that to leak quickly and wide, had that information been available close to the event. I have no idea where Cole got the information, as he doesn't even cite the unnamed "source with close ties to the Bills" (for example). A rumor he heard "in the wind", perhaps. Hear it enough times and it must be true, right? Former coach, player? Perhaps, but then again one needs to take a source like that with a grain of salt---and source it as such "former Bills employee". An irresponsible Tweet, as is, I think. I think irresponsible is the right word for it. As Rodak has proven time and time again, mostly through Twitter, reporters looking to gin up clicks and foment unrest can, and will, lie by telling the truth. They skew the context in a way that what they're saying is accurate, but what they mean to imply isn't. What are the odds that Cole, and only Cole, have the hot lead and the talkative source on the 'EJ isn't good enough' scandal? Or how about: he was told--as we all were when the FO hired three different coaches to make the young QB better--that compared to playoff and Super Bowl winning quarterbacks in this era, EJ just isn't good enough...yet. On the topic of bringing in support to make him better, this is certainly something that is likely said by guys in the know. So when Cole turns around and says "I'm told by insiders that EJ isn't good enough" he's telling a truth, but it's a half truth, bordering on a lie. Also "staffer" could be the 19 year old Cowboys fan whose aunt has worked as a secretary in ticket sales since the 80's and got him a summer job making sure everyone's desk had enough paper clips and staplers.
GG Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 As Kevin Bacon would say at the Faber College parade, "Move along. All is well. Nothing to see here." My sixth degree of separation says that's not what Chip Diller would say.
dave mcbride Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I think irresponsible is the right word for it. As Rodak has proven time and time again, mostly through Twitter, reporters looking to gin up clicks and foment unrest can, and will, lie by telling the truth. They skew the context in a way that what they're saying is accurate, but what they mean to imply isn't. What are the odds that Cole, and only Cole, have the hot lead and the talkative source on the 'EJ isn't good enough' scandal? Or how about: he was told--as we all were when the FO hired three different coaches to make the young QB better--that compared to playoff and Super Bowl winning quarterbacks in this era, EJ just isn't good enough...yet. On the topic of bringing in support to make him better, this is certainly something that is likely said by guys in the know. So when Cole turns around and says "I'm told by insiders that EJ isn't good enough" he's telling a truth, but it's a half truth, bordering on a lie. Also "staffer" could be the 19 year old Cowboys fan whose aunt has worked as a secretary in ticket sales since the 80's and got him a summer job making sure everyone's desk had enough paper clips and staplers. Except for the fact that Cole is one of the better NFL reporters.
The Big Cat Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Except for the fact that Cole is one of the better NFL reporters. Well, 'better' being such a precise word, it's tough for me to refute that.
dollars 2 donuts Posted September 5, 2014 Author Posted September 5, 2014 Man, I know it is going to be a long season, but other than my obvious proclivity for rooting for this team, I really wish EJ would start the season going 20-30 for 300 and 3 TDs if no other reason than I just need SOME of this talk to stop.
CodeMonkey Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) What's the going rate for a QB with 70 career starts? The NFL Network guys called the move "panic" but "prudent." Explain that. Easy to explain. The Bills brain trust looked at how much their current backups sucked and panicked. Being so late in the preseason also added to the "panic" moniker. Prudent is obvious, a seasoned vet who is sure to be able to help Manuel as well as be a very decent game manager should he be called upon to do so. Edited September 5, 2014 by CodeMonkey
Dawgg Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Well, 'better' being such a precise word, it's tough for me to refute that. We're splitting hairs here. I think it's safe to say that a number of players are concerned about EJ's play, as it has the most direct correlative impact on the success of the team this season. The Bills panicked, plain and simple. That's not a bad thing, but it is what it is. It's unfortunate that our front office is incapable of adequately assessing its stable of QBs. - 1 year ago, the front office felt that a rookie 1st round QB did not need a dedicated QB coach - 6 months ago, the front office felt that Thad Lewis is an adequate NFL Backup (http://wivb.com/2014...s-as-backup-qb/) - 6 months ago, the front office felt that Jeff Tuel belonged on an NFL roster - 2 weeks ago, the front office felt that Jordan Palmer (whose QB statistics were worse than that of Brian Moorman) could be a viable backup. Now, Thad has been cut (and no team has claimed him) Jeff Tuel was cut and relegated to the practice squad (after not a single team claimed him) Jorda Palmer has been released and will probably retire Do you think a good front office operation would have handled the most important position in professional sports in such a lackluster fashion? Edited September 5, 2014 by Dawgg
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