It isn't just Kouandjio not starting....

[Augie]

 

Mike Mayock fell in love with Greg "Big Ol' Bubble-Butt" Robinson at The Combine. He was probably the most influential analyst responsible for his draft stock rising so high.

 

It's too early to tell for sure about Robinson, obviously, but I generally like Mayock better than the others (though he certainly wasn't alone). Having said that, you will hear about QB's labeled as a "product of the system". I don't believe I've ever heard that about an OT, but they had something interesting going on there. I think he'll come around, but it does give you some hope for CK (that was one brutal preseason) .

 

How many rookie OTs, beside Hendy, are starting?

 

That is an excellent question, and I'm far too lazy to try to give you an answer. We have some hard working people here who might do better.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Augie

[Kelly the Dog]

Mike Mayock fell in love with Greg "Big Ol' Bubble-Butt" Robinson at The Combine. He was probably the most influential analyst responsible for his draft stock rising so high.

I don't know this either way, and it's something I would very much like to know, but I would probably bet that a GM like Doug Whaley, or any decent GM in the league never watches Mike Mayock (who I think is the best overall TV guy), doesn't know a thing about Mayock's ratings and never ever ever watches, reads, knows or cares what ANY draftnik on TV or online thinks about any player they are considering drafting.

[YoloinOhio]

 

I don't know this either way, and it's something I would very much like to know, but I would probably bet that a GM like Doug Whaley, or any decent GM in the league never watches Mike Mayock (who I think is the best overall TV guy), doesn't know a thing about Mayock's ratings and never ever ever watches, reads, knows or cares what ANY draftnik on TV or online thinks about any player they are considering drafting.

fact. They may know about it, but they don't utilize it.

[Kelly the Dog]

fact. They may know about it, but they don't utilize it.

I doubt they even know. If anything they probably stay away on purpose. It's possible that SportsCenter or highlights of the Combine are on somewhere in the background where they happen to be but I very much doubt they even know what TV, radio and Internet draftniks think.

 

Put it this way: Would you? I sure as hell wouldn't if I was a GM. I'd listen to my scouts and what I saw myself and whatever NFL scouting service the team uses. That's it. I like Mayock and there would be no way I would listen to him about anyone.

[Nanker]

So GMs and Coaching staffs are immune to buying into hype?

 

I'm not so sure about that. There's a lot of group-think that goes on in The League.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Nanker

[BADOLBILZ]

I doubt they even know. If anything they probably stay away on purpose. It's possible that SportsCenter or highlights of the Combine are on somewhere in the background where they happen to be but I very much doubt they even know what TV, radio and Internet draftniks think.

 

Put it this way: Would you? I sure as hell wouldn't if I was a GM. I'd listen to my scouts and what I saw myself and whatever NFL scouting service the team uses. That's it. I like Mayock and there would be no way I would listen to him about anyone.

 

Actually I think the Bengals have been drafting from Mel Kiper's guide for the past 6-7 years and their roster is pretty good.

 

Where teams really get in trouble is drafting for need at any position other than QB. For a good organization the draft is an ongoing process of roster building not a singular isolated annual event to patch current holes with players who are not likely to excel immediately.....as the Bills have treated it for half a century.

 

Draft publications and scouting services are traditionally pretty accurate. A good portion of the whiffs are due to injury or a lack of desire to excel, which are hard to anticipate in many cases.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Actually I think the Bengals have been drafting from Mel Kiper's guide for the past 6-7 years and their roster is pretty good.

 

Where teams really get in trouble is drafting for need at any position other than QB. For a good organization the draft is an ongoing process of roster building not a singular isolated annual event to patch current holes with players who are not likely to excel immediately.....as the Bills have treated it for half a century.

 

Draft publications and scouting services are traditionally pretty accurate. A good portion of the whiffs are due to injury or a lack of desire to excel, which are hard to anticipate in many cases.

the Bengals used to do this because they employed 1 1/2 college scouts. Yes, you read that correctly. They hired some additional scouts a few yrs ago and since then have drafted much better.

 

The overriding factor though in it appearing their picks have worked out better is that they had not changed systems on either side of the ball for several years. This will magically do wonders for draft "success."

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually I think the Bengals have been drafting from Mel Kiper's guide for the past 6-7 years and their roster is pretty good.

 

Where teams really get in trouble is drafting for need at any position other than QB. For a good organization the draft is an ongoing process of roster building not a singular isolated annual event to patch current holes with players who are not likely to excel immediately.....as the Bills have treated it for half a century.

 

Draft publications and scouting services are traditionally pretty accurate. A good portion of the whiffs are due to injury or a lack of desire to excel, which are hard to anticipate in many cases.

That's why I said "any decent GM," specifically with the Bengals in mind. Although, as Yolo says, they hired a lot more scouts in the last several years compared to what they had. I agree that the scouting services are pretty good, and I even think certain draft publications like Ourlads is pretty good. I just don't believe for a second that good GMs in the league would use them. Their own scouts and the services provide everything they need to know. if they get interested in a player they have access to all the film they need. I've heard Whaley talk about a dozen times on GR and bills.com etc about how he scouts and what their process is, and I would bet he doesn't know or care what Kiper or McDouche or Mayock, etc. say.

[BADOLBILZ]

the Bengals used to do this because they employed 1 1/2 college scouts. Yes, you read that correctly. They hired some additional scouts a few yrs ago and since then have drafted much better.

 

The overriding factor though in it appearing their picks have worked out better is that they had not changed systems on either side of the ball for several years. This will magically do wonders for draft "success."

 

Having at least a serviceable starting NFL QB during most of that time helps as well, but the bottom line is that they took a lot of guys with pundit-recognized talent who other GM's poo-poo'ed in favor of their own personal Torrel Troups and turned those picks into pretty deep roster.

 

The draft is not rocket science nor is it a crap shoot. If you make sound decisions on talent and prioritize well, you get rewarded IN THE LONG TERM. Reach for need and don't adequately address your QB need diligently until it is filled then you can really put together an impressive run of futility.

 

That's why I said "any decent GM," specifically with the Bengals in mind. Although, as Yolo says, they hired a lot more scouts in the last several years compared to what they had. I agree that the scouting services are pretty good, and I even think certain draft publications like Ourlads is pretty good. I just don't believe for a second that good GMs in the league would use them. Their own scouts and the services provide everything they need to know. if they get interested in a player they have access to all the film they need. I've heard Whaley talk about a dozen times on GR and bills.com etc about how he scouts and what their process is, and I would bet he doesn't know or care what Kiper or McDouche or Mayock, etc. say.

 

If you hire scouts who give you the same opinion as draftniks and then you have success.........just sayin'.

 

I don't care if Whaley listens to Kiper or Mayock or not.....it's important that he not overthink things and that has been a traditional problem in Buffalo.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Having at least a serviceable starting NFL QB during most of that time helps as well, but the bottom line is that they took a lot of guys with pundit-recognized talent who other GM's poo-poo'ed in favor of their own personal Torrel Troups and turned those picks into pretty deep roster.

 

The draft is not rocket science nor is it a crap shoot. If you make sound decisions on talent and prioritize well, you get rewarded IN THE LONG TERM. Reach for need and don't adequately address your QB need diligently until it is filled then you can really put together an impressive run of futility.

 

 

 

If you hire scouts who give you the same opinion as draftniks and then you have success.........just sayin'.

 

I don't care if Whaley listens to Kiper or Mayock or not.....it's important that he not overthink things and that has been a traditional problem in Buffalo.

you are oversimplifying the NFL scouting process. The college scouts are researching players years before their eligibility, with detail aligned to their specific schemes the team runs, with about 40% more information on the players than someone who does not work for an nfl team has access to.

[Best Player Available]

 

 

Yes yes, and a vaunted 7-9 record.

Man, 7-9 I can remember when the bIlls hit that mark for years in a row.

Those were the days..........

[thewildrabbit]

You guys think that every NFL player drafted should be a plug and play no matter where they are picked. The bottom line is that not every player taken early doesn't always pan out right away. The success rate for a top LT is by far more successful with a top ten pick then it is after the 10th pick.

 

I can't emphasis enough how much the Bills got super lucky with Cordy Glenn, and now again with a 7th rounder in Henderson.

 

Greg Robinson is backing up Jake Long who was the #1 overall in 2008, and a pro bowler. Long started 15 games last year, and Robinson is a smart move by the Rams to draft a quality player to eventually replace Long.

 

Taylor Lewan is the backup LT behind Michael Roos in Tennessee, and same deal as with St Louis. Jake Matthews is the starting LT for the Falcons.

 

2013 #1 overall Eric Fisher is the starting LT for the Chiefs. #2 overall pick Luke Joeckel is the starting LT in Jacksonvile. 4th overall pick Lane Johnson was moved to 2nd string as he is facing a suspension. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/28/suspension-looming-lane-johnson-slides-to-second-team/

 

Chance Warmack is a starting OG for the Titans. Justin Pugh is the starting RT for the Giants. DJ Fluker is the starting RT for the Chargers.

 

A lot of teams draft O linemen early to ensure a greater probability for success in the draft. Rather then taking a gamble with a later round pick.

 

The Bills are so very lucky to have found such a good pair of bookend OT's. Now if they would only fix the OG positions.

[YoloinOhio]

You guys think that every NFL player drafted should be a plug and play no matter where they are picked. The bottom line is that not every player taken early doesn't always pan out right away. The success rate for a top LT is by far more successful with a top ten pick then it is after the 10th pick.

 

I can't emphasis enough how much the Bills got super lucky with Cordy Glenn, and now again with a 7th rounder in Henderson.

 

Greg Robinson is backing up Jake Long who was the #1 overall in 2008, and a pro bowler. Long started 15 games last year, and Robinson is a smart move by the Rams to draft a quality player to eventually replace Long.

 

Taylor Lewan is the backup LT behind Michael Roos in Tennessee, and same deal as with St Louis. Jake Matthews is the starting LT for the Falcons.

 

2013 #1 overall Eric Fisher is the starting LT for the Chiefs. #2 overall pick Luke Joeckel is the starting LT in Jacksonvile. 4th overall pick Lane Johnson was moved to 2nd string as he is facing a suspension. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/28/suspension-looming-lane-johnson-slides-to-second-team/

 

Chance Warmack is a starting OG for the Titans. Justin Pugh is the starting RT for the Giants. DJ Fluker is the starting RT for the Chargers.

 

A lot of teams draft O linemen early to ensure a greater probability for success in the draft. Rather then taking a gamble with a later round pick.

 

The Bills are so very lucky to have found such a good pair of bookend OT's. Now if they would only fix the OG positions.

i just don't think either Tennessee or StL are good enough teams to draft backups in the top 10.

[starrymessenger]

Greg Robinson will be all pro - as a guard!

[thewildrabbit]

i just don't think either Tennessee or StL are good enough teams to draft backups in the top 10.

If you want the QB to survive long enough to see if he can develop into a decent player I would think you would almost need to draft linemen in the top 10 on a bad team.

 

Chances are their scouting dept stinks, so better to take a player with a higher chance of success rate.

 

The only thing more important then the QB position is protecting the QB (the most valuable player on the team) IMO.

[YoloinOhio]

If you want the QB to survive long enough to see if he can develop into a decent player I would think you would almost need to draft linemen in the top 10 on a bad team.

 

Chances are their scouting dept stinks, so better to take a player with a higher chance of success rate.

 

The only thing more important then the QB position is protecting the QB (the most valuable player on the team) IMO.

i agree if you need a starting LT. these teams drafted backups.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Having at least a serviceable starting NFL QB during most of that time helps as well, but the bottom line is that they took a lot of guys with pundit-recognized talent who other GM's poo-poo'ed in favor of their own personal Torrel Troups and turned those picks into pretty deep roster.

 

The draft is not rocket science nor is it a crap shoot. If you make sound decisions on talent and prioritize well, you get rewarded IN THE LONG TERM. Reach for need and don't adequately address your QB need diligently until it is filled then you can really put together an impressive run of futility.

 

 

 

If you hire scouts who give you the same opinion as draftniks and then you have success.........just sayin'.

 

I don't care if Whaley listens to Kiper or Mayock or not.....it's important that he not overthink things and that has been a traditional problem in Buffalo.

 

I generally agree with most of this. Have the Bulls made poor picks? No doubt about it. Whitner is not as bad as he was made to be by some here, but he wasn't worth the #8 pick (of course, if he was Earl Thomas, no one cares about him being a S).

 

But even with all those missed picks (why some people re harsh picks from 7 years ago is beyond me but whatever), the Bills have started Fitz, JP, Thad, Tuel, Edwards, Manuel, and Holcomb and have finished 6-10 or 7-9 the last 5 years. If you replace any if those guys with Peyton or Brady, those bad picks don't stand out as much.

 

Homer alert, but I think the Bills have a very good roster. I think it good enough where EJ doesn't have to carry the team. If he can progress and make big plays & limit turnovers, this could be an interesting team.

 

Finally, I think it is a good sign of the talent improvement that a 2nd rounder doesn't automatically start. We have a deeper roster than we have had in years. That's a positive in my eyes.

[justnzane]

STL really threw away their RG3 picks.

 

Well they have gotten Michael Brockers, Zac Stacy, Janoris Jenkins and Alec Ogletree consequentially from the RG3 trade. That isn't terrible all things considered, but not quite what San Diego pulled off on the Ron Mexico trade.

[dave mcbride]

you are oversimplifying the NFL scouting process. The college scouts are researching players years before their eligibility, with detail aligned to their specific schemes the team runs, with about 40% more information on the players than someone who does not work for an nfl team has access to.

I don't think he's oversimplifying at all. This ain't rocket surgery.

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

I don't think he's oversimplifying at all. This ain't rocket surgery.

believe what you want