YoloinOhio Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 The worst part, if I am a STL fan, is that they didn't take a QB.
jumbalaya Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) St Louis did not throw away their RG3 picks. As a matter of fact that was a highly successful trade. They have about 5 starters and I think a couple of pro bowlers from that trade and moves related to it. Edited September 4, 2014 by jumbalaya
FireChan Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 St Louis did not throw away their RG3 picks. As a matter of fact that was a highly successful trade. They have about 5 starters and I think a couple of pro bowlers from that trade and moves related to it. Yes yes, and a vaunted 7-9 record.
peterpan Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) I really have to wonder how these guys get rated sometimes. Greg Robinson was a road Grader but he was never an elite LT prospect. Then on draft day the Rams said they planned to start him out at G because he was so raw. Ummmm what? You admit he isnt good enough to play LT right after drating him 2nd overall? Im not surprised. Meanwhile Jake Mathews was a stud from the get go. Everyone knew it going back 2-3 seasons. He is starting at LT for a much better team. Its obvious who St. Louis should have taken, if they wanted a T. Same goes for EJ really. He was never worth a 1st round pick and everyone here knows it. Bills thought they were smarter than everyone else and reached for a middle round prospect. Edited September 4, 2014 by peterpan
John from Riverside Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 The Greg Robinson one is a absolute stunner.....not even at guard?
prissythecat Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 How can RG III be a bust if his best season is arguably better than any season by a Bills QB in franchise history? http://www.pro-footb.../G/GrifRo01.htm . If his only good production is going to be one season ,then he is a bust given that Washington literally sold the farm to get him. Comparing his one year success to Bills QBs is not really relevant to the discussion?
YoloinOhio Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 If his only good production is going to be one season ,then he is a bust given that Washington literally sold the farm to get him. Comparing his one year success to Bills QBs is not really relevant to the discussion? This
dave mcbride Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) If his only good production is going to be one season ,then he is a bust given that Washington literally sold the farm to get him. Comparing his one year success to Bills QBs is not really relevant to the discussion? Again, how can anyone in their right mind be predicting "bust" when the player under discussion has played only two seasons and in one of them put up numbers that are better than any comparable player for the Bills put up over the franchise's 50+ year history? Moreover, his numbers were good by any standard. And as for bringing him up as a bust, it was not me who did that. Sheesh. It's like people want him to fail. He was hurt last year, and I'd far rather have him on the Bills than the players we currently have at that position. Edited September 4, 2014 by dave mcbride
Tyrod's Tailor Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 The worst part, if I am a STL fan, is that they didn't take a QB. Could have had Bortles. Big oopsie.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Picking OT that high is a bad move. This is proven over and over. These GMs just can't help themselves it seems. Look at that 2013 draft. Eric Fisher was a matador last year---at RT. Now of course Andy Reid will move him to LT. That should work out well.. Joeckel couldn't start at LT, so he too was put in at RT. After the Jags traded away their LT, Joeckel lasted exactly 1 game before going out on IR. Lane Johnson played RT al last season. He is suspended for the first 4 games this year. That's 3 of the top 4 players taken in that draft. It's nuts. Agreed. Certain positions seem to flame out more than others at top picks and OT is one of them. QB, too. But really, they all do. It's seems that half of the first round every year turn out to be busts. That is the reason I loved the Sammy Watkins trade. The chances of him becoming a star, or even just a very good player, were significantly better IMO than Eric Ebron and whomever they were going to draft next year number one. The Bills all but said Ebron was their choice had they not picked Sammy. Granted, you still do have to give these guys some time. It's hard to make that transition. Bruce Smith wasn't all that good as a rookie and he may be the best DE ever. Manning and Brady weren't good and they are two of the best QB ever.
prissythecat Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Again, how can anyone in their right mind be predicting "bust" when the player under discussion has played only two seasons and in one of them put up numbers that are better than any comparable player for the Bills put up over the franchise's 50+ year history? Moreover, his numbers were good by any standard. And as for bringing him up as a bust, it was not me who did that. Sheesh. It's like people want him to fail. He was hurt last year, and I'd far rather have him on the Bills than the players we currently have at that position. Love how you are making excuses for the mess of a season last year that the Redskins had. Maybe I can say that EJ has been hurt since last year and thats why his play is bad ? I never said that RGIII is a bust in present period. But he sure looks like he is headed in that direction. His initial success was tied to a gimmick offensive scheme that no one is relying on anymore because it has been figured out. Nothing so far indicates that RGIII can be successful as a pocket passer and thats why there is a lot of noise about having Kirk Cousins start because he can run such an offense better.
BigBuff423 Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) If his only good production is going to be one season ,then he is a bust given that Washington literally sold the farm to get him. Comparing his one year success to Bills QBs is not really relevant to the discussion? In the current P.C. climate, you may *not* want to use the term Redskins and "sold the farm" in the same sentence...might ruffle a few feathers Edited September 4, 2014 by BigBuff423
The Big Cat Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Love how you are making excuses for the mess of a season last year that the Redskins had. Maybe I can say that EJ has been hurt since last year and thats why his play is bad ? I never said that RGIII is a bust in present period. But he sure looks like he is headed in that direction. His initial success was tied to a gimmick offensive scheme that no one is relying on anymore because it has been figured out. Nothing so far indicates that RGIII can be successful as a pocket passer and thats why there is a lot of noise about having Kirk Cousins start because he can run such an offense better. He also looked abysmal in preseason THIS year.
BillsVet Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 So we can define down Buffalo picking a guy who probably won't contribute by highlighting that because it happened before Buffalo isn't so bad? Sure. I don't get the Greg Robinson thing, but Jonathan Cooper was picked last year 7th overall, IR'd for the season, and actually plays guard, not tackle. That doesn't change that him not playing is good. I think most reasonable people here figured Kouandjio would challenge Pears for the starting job. Heck, I think the scouts and coaches figured that as well, because, as we've seen, Pears isn't cutting it at OT. He's kicked inside presumably because Urbik has struggled. A lot of people used to highlight that Buffalo's first round picks weren't busts to indicate that their drafting prowess was fine. Well, second round picks (you can't call them busts or success) should be contributing sooner rather than later in today's NFL. CK was a disaster in camp, so it ain't looking good, but it's not made better because other teams have the same problem. So-so drafting teams will never get ahead.
dave mcbride Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 He also looked abysmal in preseason THIS year. This may be semantics, but if a player has one transcendently good season in which he leads a bad team to the playoffs, then I'm not going to call him a bust even if he declines immediately afterward. And Griffin was indeed amazingly good in 2012: he led the league with the lowest INT percentage, had a QB rating of 102.74, completed 66 percent of his passes, led the league in ypa with an average of 8.1 ypa, and led the league in rushing ypc (6.8) with over 800 yards rushing. When is the last time a player led the league in both rushing ypc and passing ypa? Never, I suspect. That's an incredible achievement.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 This may be semantics, but if a player has one transcendently good season in which he leads a bad team to the playoffs, then I'm not going to call him a bust even if he declines immediately afterward. And Griffin was indeed amazingly good in 2012: he led the league with the lowest INT percentage, had a QB rating of 102.74, completed 66 percent of his passes, led the league in ypa with an average of 8.1 ypa, and led the league in rushing ypc (6.8) with over 800 yards rushing. When is the last time a player led the league in both rushing ypc and passing ypa? Never, I suspect. That's an incredible achievement. It is. But I remember watching him and saying this is never going to last. He is way too careless, he is going to get killed. He also throws the ball off his back leg way, way, way too much which was obvious then and is finally and really catching up to him now (it did all last year, too). He was a great player because he was a double threat. I doubt he can be or will be that double threat like he was in his first year. He's too slender to take the abuse. It's possible that he will learn to be a great QB but his rookie season seems to be an outlier because of how he plays the game. Not his stats.
dave mcbride Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 It is. But I remember watching him and saying this is never going to last. He is way too careless, he is going to get killed. He also throws the ball off his back leg way, way, way too much which was obvious then and is finally and really catching up to him now (it did all last year, too). He was a great player because he was a double threat. I doubt he can be or will be that double threat like he was in his first year. He's too slender to take the abuse. It's possible that he will learn to be a great QB but his rookie season seems to be an outlier because of how he plays the game. Not his stats. We shall see, but it doesn't take away from what he did in his first season. It's one of the greatest rookie seasons in NFL history.
GunnerBill Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 I respectfully disagree with Mr Mcbride that RGIII can never be called a bust whatever he does from year 2 onwards because year 1 was so good. It wouldn't be the first time someone was great until NFL defenses catch up and have tape on them (although maybe the most extreme example of it). However, I agree that calling him a bust at this point is silly. Having siad that I really don't think Gruden was a good choice as Head Coach for RGIII. As I said in the bold predictions thread - this is a guy who wanted Dalton over Kap.... not a huge stretch to say Cousins is more "his type" of QB. On Kouandjio - BillsVet is right that you want a 2nd rounder to come in and play early. But I think the Bills have said "he is not ready" and are going to work with him. If they still end up with some production at tackle or guard down the road then they have done well.... if not it is a big black mark against this front office whiffing so badly on a 2nd rounder when you have just traded away the following year's 1st.
John from Riverside Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 So we can define down Buffalo picking a guy who probably won't contribute by highlighting that because it happened before Buffalo isn't so bad? Sure. I don't get the Greg Robinson thing, but Jonathan Cooper was picked last year 7th overall, IR'd for the season, and actually plays guard, not tackle. That doesn't change that him not playing is good. I think most reasonable people here figured Kouandjio would challenge Pears for the starting job. Heck, I think the scouts and coaches figured that as well, because, as we've seen, Pears isn't cutting it at OT. He's kicked inside presumably because Urbik has struggled. A lot of people used to highlight that Buffalo's first round picks weren't busts to indicate that their drafting prowess was fine. Well, second round picks (you can't call them busts or success) should be contributing sooner rather than later in today's NFL. CK was a disaster in camp, so it ain't looking good, but it's not made better because other teams have the same problem. So-so drafting teams will never get ahead. I think the big thing about this is that this year (and last) were supposed to be big years for getting a OT.....these were supposed to be strong OT drafts at the top. So far it isnt working out that way
Nanker Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Those draft experts who called Robinson the best tackle prospect in a decade, I wonder what they had to say about Manuel? Mike Mayock fell in love with Greg "Big Ol' Bubble-Butt" Robinson at The Combine. He was probably the most influential analyst responsible for his draft stock rising so high. Edited September 4, 2014 by Nanker
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