dave mcbride Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I generally agree with most of this. Have the Bulls made poor picks? No doubt about it. Whitner is not as bad as he was made to be by some here, but he wasn't worth the #8 pick (of course, if he was Earl Thomas, no one cares about him being a S). But even with all those missed picks (why some people re harsh picks from 7 years ago is beyond me but whatever), the Bills have started Fitz, JP, Thad, Tuel, Edwards, Manuel, and Holcomb and have finished 6-10 or 7-9 the last 5 years. If you replace any if those guys with Peyton or Brady, those bad picks don't stand out as much. Homer alert, but I think the Bills have a very good roster. I think it good enough where EJ doesn't have to carry the team. If he can progress and make big plays & limit turnovers, this could be an interesting team. Finally, I think it is a good sign of the talent improvement that a 2nd rounder doesn't automatically start. We have a deeper roster than we have had in years. That's a positive in my eyes. I like the roster to an extent too, but the effective trade of Byrd and Alonso for Rivers/Searcy is bad news. I'm not a huge fan of the Spikes move, who is admittedly a solid run defender. The trouble is, the new rules make this even more of a passing game than before, and he's really bad in coverage. Basically, I think the defense is more flawed than last season and with a weaker coordinator. If I had to guess, I suspect they'll drop from the 10th ranking to around 17th-18th. And the qb situation is bad -- no doubt about it. There's a reason that just about every preseason publication has them at 4-12 or so, which unfortunately I think is about right. I still think Watkins was a great pick, btw. Edited September 5, 2014 by dave mcbride
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I like the roster to an extent too, but the effective trade of Byrd and Alonso for Rivers/Searcy is bad news. I'm not a huge fan of the Spikes move, who is admittedly a solid run defender. The trouble is, the new rules make this even more of a passing game than before, and he's really bad in coverage. Basically, I think the defense is more flawed than last season and with a weaker coordinator. If I had to guess, I suspect they'll drop from the 10th ranking to around 17th-18th. And the qb situation is bad -- no doubt about it. There's a reason that just about every preseason publication has them at 4-12 or so, which unfortunately I think is about right. I still think Watkins was a great pick, btw. Fair take but I feel like our defense was a bit overrated. They were still bad against the run and they still struggled to make big stops at crucial times. And losing Byrd and Kiko hurts but there still is a ton of talent. If preseason actually matters (I really don't care about preseason), they should still be pretty good. Now, it comes down to an improvement in the offense. If they could get to middle of the pack, this could be a playoff contender. If not, it's another long offseason.
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 So the Rams and Cardinals made bad draft picks. And the Bills with CK. I notice a pattern here. These are teams that seem to struggle to make the playoffs.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 So the Rams and Cardinals made bad draft picks. And the Bills with CK. I notice a pattern here. These are teams that seem to struggle to make the playoffs. The Cardinals went 10-6 in the toughest division in the NFL. The Rams went 8-8 in that same division and lost their starting qb for most of the year.
thewildrabbit Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 i agree if you need a starting LT. these teams drafted backups. The idea being that they wanted proper talented depth, and at some point in the very near future those players will become starters. I can see a solid reason for allowing Robinson time as a backup, and Cooper missed his first season with a broken leg. According to Cardinals HC Bruce Arians "He's going to be a heck of a player. It's just a matter of time and taking the right approach with him and letting him get healthy." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000389152/article/jonathan-cooper-wont-start-for-arizona-cardinals
Charles Romes Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I wonder how these other guys have looked. Without exagerating, Koundjo has looked like probably one of the worst linemen I have ever seen in pre-season for the Bills. Guys like Colin Brown and Tony Snow-- who were terrible-- even looked better in pre-season. What about cornell green. That's always been by benchmark for bad line play. A second round bust is just devastating - you lose a strong starter and the wasted pick has to clog up a roster spot for at least 2 years.
Alphadawg7 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Two highly drafted OTs in the last two drafts are not starting. Not much of a peep about that though in the media. Greg Robinson, #2 overall to STL this year, and Jonathan Cooper, #7 overall to AZ in 2013, will not start. Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 1m Ourlads agrees. G-Rob's a backup. This is big news. MT @mqsteffes: Greg Robinson also not starting in STL, but no one thinks that's a story ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 49m Bruce Arians: Jonathan Cooper won't start, hasn't earned it http://wp.me/p14QSB-9yQJ Good post...I don't get this boards expectation that rookies must start right away or they are busts. The game is a transition, and sometimes the rookies need time before they are ready or their are guys ahead of them that are ok and the team can bring the rookie along slower. This instant gratification stuff is crazy...this is the NFL, just because you are drafted high does not mean you can instantly just play and start in this league.
Marv Levy Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 RGIII hasn't played well at all since his first season. And he hasn't proved that he can be effective as a pocket passer. It may be the case that he is a bust. Lets see what happens this season. One more hit on that knee and he won't have anymore seasons. Guy takes a serious beating!
GunnerBill Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 with a weaker coordinator. I suspect Schwartz will prove you wrong on that. Not as many flashy sack stats but I'm pretty sure this will be a more disciplined defense. You can talk about it being a "passing league" all you want - the fundamentals of defense are the same - if you can't stop the run you can't stop anyone. The Packers found that again to their cost last night. Pett's scheme whilst a huge improvement on what went before still couldn't stop the run.
machine gun kelly Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I'm not worried about CK, I do think at some point the BILLS will need to transition him to Guard, but IMHO CK will be a very good Guard in the years to come...not this year maybe, but as Pears ages out and the line transitions, I think CK will fill that void quite well...he's only been playing football for a relatively short time and already manned the one of the best Offensive lines in college football...give him some time to develop and be coached, and he'll be a good Guard in the NFL. You might be right, but most line coaches don't want a guard who is that tall.
Doc Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I like the roster to an extent too, but the effective trade of Byrd and Alonso for Rivers/Searcy is bad news. I'm not a huge fan of the Spikes move, who is admittedly a solid run defender. The trouble is, the new rules make this even more of a passing game than before, and he's really bad in coverage. Basically, I think the defense is more flawed than last season and with a weaker coordinator. If I had to guess, I suspect they'll drop from the 10th ranking to around 17th-18th. And the qb situation is bad -- no doubt about it. There's a reason that just about every preseason publication has them at 4-12 or so, which unfortunately I think is about right. I still think Watkins was a great pick, btw. You can't plan for injuries like what happened to Alonso. And Rivers looked pretty good in pre-season. As for Byrd, we'll see how much of a drop-off there with Searcy. While I don't expect Searcy to make the Pro Bowl, I doubt he'll be a dumpster fire.
YoloinOhio Posted September 5, 2014 Author Posted September 5, 2014 You can't plan for injuries like what happened to Alonso. And Rivers looked pretty good in pre-season. As for Byrd, we'll see how much of a drop-off there with Searcy. While I don't expect Searcy to make the Pro Bowl, I doubt he'll be a dumpster fire. searcy has a knack for big plays
dave mcbride Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Fair take but I feel like our defense was a bit overrated. They were still bad against the run and they still struggled to make big stops at crucial times. And losing Byrd and Kiko hurts but there still is a ton of talent. If preseason actually matters (I really don't care about preseason), they should still be pretty good. Now, it comes down to an improvement in the offense. If they could get to middle of the pack, this could be a playoff contender. If not, it's another long offseason. Yep - I don't disagree with your basic gist. I do think the defense was quite good last year despite the deficiencies in stopping the run. The ineffective offense hamstrung them a bit. Also, this article is being discussed elsewhere, but it is particularly depressing. I'm now starting to think that they'll be a bad team (not a sorta bad team) this season: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials You can't plan for injuries like what happened to Alonso. And Rivers looked pretty good in pre-season. As for Byrd, we'll see how much of a drop-off there with Searcy. While I don't expect Searcy to make the Pro Bowl, I doubt he'll be a dumpster fire. Hope you're right. He just looks slow to me out there (like a LB who specializes in pass defense and not a safety), and in past seasons he'd get lost in coverage. I do realize that experience improves recognition. Edited September 5, 2014 by dave mcbride
BigBuff423 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 You might be right, but most line coaches don't want a guard who is that tall. And that may very well be true, but if Henderson plays up to his potential and Glenn has the LT slot nailed down, that leaves a 2nd round pick in CK where? On the bench? If CK improves over time and with coaching and experience, hard to believe they leave him riding the pine...more likely in my mind, Cyril Richardson ends up at LG eventually and CK takes over Pears' spot when his contract either runs out or becomes too expensive because of CK's promise...just a guess....obviously.
Rob's House Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I'm assuming those calling Robinson a bust before the first game of his rookie season didn't read up on him pre-draft. Word on him was that he was raw, but with freakish physical attributes that could enable him to develop into an Orlando Pace type talent. The fact that he's not starting in the season opener isn't much of a story.
YoloinOhio Posted September 5, 2014 Author Posted September 5, 2014 I'm assuming those calling Robinson a bust before the first game of his rookie season didn't read up on him pre-draft. Word on him was that he was raw, but with freakish physical attributes that could enable him to develop into an Orlando Pace type talent. The fact that he's not starting in the season opener isn't much of a story. i read those reports. They were going to play him at guard this year, originally, while he developed the pass protection skills. Now not at all.
dave mcbride Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 It is. But I remember watching him and saying this is never going to last. He is way too careless, he is going to get killed. He also throws the ball off his back leg way, way, way too much which was obvious then and is finally and really catching up to him now (it did all last year, too). He was a great player because he was a double threat. I doubt he can be or will be that double threat like he was in his first year. He's too slender to take the abuse. It's possible that he will learn to be a great QB but his rookie season seems to be an outlier because of how he plays the game. Not his stats. Interesting -- http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/upshot/robert-griffin-iii-and-the-sunk-cost-fallacy.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&abt=0002&abg=1
Webster Guy Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Picking OT that high is a bad move. This is proven over and over. These GMs just can't help themselves it seems. Look at that 2013 draft. Eric Fisher was a matador last year---at RT. Now of course Andy Reid will move him to LT. That should work out well.. Joeckel couldn't start at LT, so he too was put in at RT. After the Jags traded away their LT, Joeckel lasted exactly 1 game before going out on IR. Lane Johnson played RT al last season. He is suspended for the first 4 games this year. That's 3 of the top 4 players taken in that draft. It's nuts. wow. I guess I never realized it was that bad. There are busts at all positions but it's hard to believe the scouts can be so wrong. Mike Williams at #4, Gallery etc. So much luck involved.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 I don't disagree, I just thought the comment was funny. Although, I haven't given up on him, but I know some who think he is done. If he can stay healthy, I think he can be fine. I know one NFL GM who said in 2012 he is the best player he EVER scouted and he's been doing this since 1995 (including Luck). Injuries are a b**ch. It's that "if he can stay healthy" thing that bites "best players". Close to home here, Sam Bradford is done as the Rams starter. He showed real talent at times - when he was healthy.
prissythecat Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Interesting -- http://www.nytimes.c...&abt=0002&abg=1 "...He looks like a bust only compared with what the team paid to get him, trading away the chance for four top players to get one quarterback. By one analysis at the time, to justify that trade, Griffin would have needed to perform at the level of Tom Brady, who has three Super Bowl rings with the New England Patriots."
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