Good article on EJ

[dollars 2 donuts]

I got the guy's, back, like many of you here.

 

I have speculated otherwise at various times for the sake of argument, but he is MY QB and I am behind him 100%!

Edited September 4, 2014 by dollars 2 donuts

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Because "win now" is not a f---ing switch that you flip? Harbaugh benefited big time from a lot of the right talent, finally being employed the wrong way. Funny how Alex Smith was a dud without good coaching and is now one of the game's smartest, more efficient QBs. This team has talent. EJ has talent. Let's see what it can do. I am far more receptive to the idea that Marrone is a coach of low pedigree that wasn't ready for the NFL, than I am to the idea that EJ is a bust after 9.5 games.

 

EJ is really sorry for everything he did wrong the past 14 years, starting when he was in 4th grade, but get a grip.

 

Whoa, I must have hit a nerve. You drop f-bombs and tell me to get a grip? Perhaps it is because you don’t want to face the potentially icy cold truth about hard-working EJ. And Alex Smith’s success in KC only makes me think Orton could really take advantage of the talent here, and make a star out of a guy like Watkins.

 

In my mind, the moment Orton enters the game (if in relief of EJ’s struggles), it is “win now” mode. We shall see if it becomes necessary. I am just glad he’s in the bullpen.

 

The “Marrone is not ready for primetime” argument is really just a red herring. He doesn’t make the mental mistakes I enumerated. The question of whether he is who we need at the helm will not really be entertained in my mind until at least late this year. I think he has shown a lot of what we have lacked in a head coach.

 

My biggest fear with what I have seen thus far in EJ is that he ultimately might not be a good enough leader of full grown NFL professionals. In this way he’d be similar to what befell Rob Johnson, J.P. Losman, and Trent Edwards.

 

Like Brian Cox might say, I am waiting for his nuts to drop.

Edited September 4, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[RuntheDamnBall]

Whoa, I must have hit a nerve. You drop f-bombs and tell me to get a grip?

Yes, a grip about football, a sport played for entertainment.

Perhaps it is because you don’t want to face the potentially icy cold truth about hard-working EJ. And Alex Smith’s success in KC only makes me think Orton could really take advantage of the talent here, and make a star out of a guy like Watkins.

Perhaps because the "potentially icy cold truth" is not a truth at all but a projection. I am willing to admit that my projection and hopes for EJ could be wrong. Seems that many of his doubters cannot. They sound full of themselves (read it here first, he's gonna suck!) and it's annoying.

 

And to only discern one truth from Alex Smith's success is to be pretty nearsighted, and to admit that you see what you want to see. I see a guy that people thought had a talent (was perhaps overrated at #1 overall), but needed to be used correctly. When Harbaugh arrived, he was. Orton did not have his pedigree. At all. EJ's is closer. I'm not saying they are similar at all. Only that scouts' projections for the two are more in line.

In my mind, the moment Orton enters the game (if in relief of EJ’s struggles), it is “win now” mode. We shall see if it becomes necessary. I am just glad he’s in the bullpen.

OK. I am, too, FWIW.

 

The “Marrone is not ready for primetime” argument is really just a red herring. He doesn’t make the mental mistakes I enumerated. The question of whether he is who we need at the helm will not really be entertained in my mind until at least late this year. I think he has shown a lot of what we have lacked in a head coach.

And yet, he hasn't shown much for it. Why the longer leash for Marrone and not for a guy that he and the team invested in as a long term project?

 

My biggest fear with what I have seen thus far in EJ is that he ultimately might not be a good enough leader of full grown NFL professionals. In this way he’d be similar to what befell Rob Johnson, J.P. Losman, and Trent Edwards.

 

Those QBs have precious little in common with each other or with EJ. What is the point? Leadership is a buzzword. Yet, Kelly, Wood and many others think he's exhibiting great leadership for what it's worth. The thing is, if you ask what EJ's #1 problem is, there is a new one every time, often invented ("slow eyes," "not making reads," "progressions," "inaccurate," "leadership," yadda yadda). I am surprised the kid can tie his shoes in the morning based on what people say about him here.

Like Brian Cox might say, I am waiting for his nuts to drop.

I think he can find his confidence, but I am not sure that the booing, the "columnists" trying to push his buttons, and extreme over-analysis of his every move including body language and press conference demeanor (from people who must have never watched Eli Manning in their lives) will contribute positively to that. One of the best things that he has going for him is that he seems to be able to stay positive and push out the doubters.

[The Wiz]

I think he can find his confidence, but I am not sure that the booing, the "columnists" trying to push his buttons, and extreme over-analysis of his every move including body language and press conference demeanor (from people who must have never watched Eli Manning in their lives) will contribute positively to that. One of the best things that he has going for him is that he seems to be able to stay positive and push out the doubters.

This point to me is one that rings out the most. I watched his presser from the other day and in the 8 minutes I think 2 questions didn't use the word "criticism". Everyone(columists) appears to be focusing on every negative tidbit they can get out of him.

[HamSandwhich]

It's all about whats in front of us now! Go EJ and GO BILLS!!!

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Perhaps because the "potentially icy cold truth" is not a truth at all but a projection. I am willing to admit that my projection and hopes for EJ could be wrong. Seems that many of his doubters cannot. They sound full of themselves (read it here first, he's gonna suck!) and it's annoying.

 

Ok, the first thing I’d like to make perfectly clear… I am not trying to get under your (or anyone’s) skin – I have truly enjoyed this exchange, and that’s precisely why I post my thoughts on here. The micro-criticism of EJ's play simply comes with the territory. We have sucked, and need someone to be the guy. Until we find one, it will continue.

 

And what I really hope is that about halfway through this year, I will be served the biggest plate of humble pie, just as EJ leads us to another clutch win in a hostile environment. Say, the Jets game in the Meadowlands on Oct 26th. If that happens, it will be quite a delicious serving of humble pie for me, and I’ll even offer you a nibble (since you seem to be at a similar confidence level with Marrone).

 

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state

 

If you haven’t, please read this pre-draft scouting report on EJ, from Florida State people, no less. It details some alarmingly troubling things that have already come to pass (no pun intended, I swear!). This is why I am not counting on Todd Downing orchestrating a sudden breakthrough in his 2^nd NFL season.

 

And our playoff baby is already in the 9^th grade, so I just do not have the time to wait for another baby to develop while this defense is ready to roll.

Edited September 4, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

 

Ok, the first thing I’d like to make perfectly clear… I am not trying to get under your (or anyone’s) skin – I have truly enjoyed this exchange, and that’s precisely why I post my thoughts on here. The micro-criticism of EJ's play simply comes with the territory. We have sucked, and need someone to be the guy. Until we find one, it will continue.

 

And what I really hope is that about halfway through this year, I will be served the biggest plate of humble pie, just as EJ leads us to another clutch win in a hostile environment. Say, the Jets game in the Meadowlands on Oct 26th. If that happens, it will be quite a delicious serving of humble pie for me, and I’ll even offer you a nibble (since you seem to be at a similar confidence level with Marrone).

 

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state

 

If you haven’t, please read this pre-draft scouting report on EJ, from Florida State people, no less. It details some alarmingly troubling things that have already come to pass (no pun intended, I swear!). This is why I am not counting on Todd Downing orchestrating a sudden breakthrough in his 2^nd NFL season.

 

And our playoff baby is already in the 9^th grade, so I just do not have the time to wait for another baby to develop while this defense is ready to roll.

Word. And I'd gladly help myself to seconds of Marrone-crow if the situation warrants it. To be honest, my EJ radar is extra sensitive in light of posts from some "fans" here who want to see the kid get injured. Sorry to appear on edge about it.

[1billsfan]

Ok, the first thing I’d like to make perfectly clear… I am not trying to get under your (or anyone’s) skin – I have truly enjoyed this exchange, and that’s precisely why I post my thoughts on here. The micro-criticism of EJ's play simply comes with the territory. We have sucked, and need someone to be the guy. Until we find one, it will continue.

 

And what I really hope is that about halfway through this year, I will be served the biggest plate of humble pie, just as EJ leads us to another clutch win in a hostile environment. Say, the Jets game in the Meadowlands on Oct 26th. If that happens, it will be quite a delicious serving of humble pie for me, and I’ll even offer you a nibble (since you seem to be at a similar confidence level with Marrone).

 

http://www.tomahawkn...l-florida-state

 

If you haven’t, please read this pre-draft scouting report on EJ, from Florida State people, no less. It details some alarmingly troubling things that have already come to pass (no pun intended, I swear!). This is why I am not counting on Todd Downing orchestrating a sudden breakthrough in his 2^nd NFL season.

 

And our playoff baby is already in the 9^th grade, so I just do not have the time to wait for another baby to develop while this defense is ready to roll.

 

One thing that sticks out is this..."He must be willing and eager to run on designed plays and when the opportunity presents itself on called pass plays."

 

With the solid backup Orton on board, I do hope that EJ is being told that it's ok to run when he sees an open field (which with the RBs and WRs we have should be almost all the time).

 

This is something that would probably catch the Bears completely off guard and might be the Bills' x-factor to put a couple TDs on the board early in the game.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

One thing that sticks out is this..."He must be willing and eager to run on designed plays and when the opportunity presents itself on called pass plays."

 

With the solid backup Orton on board, I do hope that EJ is being told that it's ok to run when he sees an open field (which with the RBs and WRs we have should be almost all the time).

 

This is something that would probably catch the Bears completely off guard and might be the Bills' x-factor to put a couple TDs on the board early in the game.

 

Agreed, it is something that Aaron Rodgers kills defenses with. It is so deflating to a defense who defends the play so well that the QB has nowhere to go, but then he crushes their spirit by scrambling for a first down when everyone is guarding their men.

[Dibs]

......Alex Smith’s success in KC only makes me think Orton could really take advantage of the talent here, and make a star out of a guy like Watkins.

 

......

 

I am unsure of what you mean here. You seem to be implying that AS became somewhat better at KC....which isn't the case. He won 20.5 of his last 26 starts at SF. He had a 90.7 QBR in 2011 and 104.1 in 2012. At KC he had 89.1 QBR and won 11 of 15.

 

It isn't like he was running in the mid 70's QBR(a la Orton's last 10 starts) and then took off with a new team.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Dibs

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

I am unsure of what you mean here. You seem to be implying that AS became somewhat better at KC....which isn't the case. He won 20.5 of his last 26 starts at SF. He had a 90.7 QBR in 2011 and 104.1 in 2012. At KC he had 89.1 QBR and won 11 of 15.

 

It isn't like he was running in the mid 70's QBR(a la Orton's last 10 starts) and then took off with a new team.

 

Not a big fan of using ESPN’s QBR, or even the old QB rating system, completion percentages, etc. as the gospel truth in talking QB play.

I just meant that KC had little success with bums like Thigpen, Croyle, Palko, etc. before Alex Smith. Smith came in. And suddenly, they go to the playoffs with, as you somewhat implied by Smith’s KC QBR, only decent QB play.

And I also know that Orton was one of those pre-Smith guys, too. But he only had a cup of coffee with them as the Crennel ship sank, and he actually led them to some wins to close out the year.

So, anyway, we are chasing a silent fart in a windstorm at this point.

[3rdand12]

I got the guy's, back, like many of you here.

 

I have speculated otherwise at various times for the sake of argument, but he is MY QB and I am behind him 100%!

I think i will go move forward with this statement .

I expect to root for him and all the rest of these fellows ( even Brooks ) But i am watching him closely) .

Edited September 5, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Big Gun]

Not a big fan of using ESPN’s QBR, or even the old QB rating system, completion percentages, etc. as the gospel truth in talking QB play.

 

I just meant that KC had little success with bums like Thigpen, Croyle, Palko, etc. before Alex Smith. Smith came in. And suddenly, they go to the playoffs with, as you somewhat implied by Smith’s KC QBR, only decent QB play.

 

And I also know that Orton was one of those pre-Smith guys, too. But he only had a cup of coffee with them as the Crennel ship sank, and he actually led them to some wins to close out the year.

 

So, anyway, we are chasing a silent fart in a windstorm at this point.

 

Lol, nice! He who smelt it dealt it!

[The Voice of Truth]

Still suffering from th Chris Brown effect? I was a sucker once too.

[Orton's Arm]

Yes, a grip about football, a sport played for entertainment.

 

Perhaps because the "potentially icy cold truth" is not a truth at all but a projection. I am willing to admit that my projection and hopes for EJ could be wrong. Seems that many of his doubters cannot. They sound full of themselves (read it here first, he's gonna suck!) and it's annoying.

 

And to only discern one truth from Alex Smith's success is to be pretty nearsighted, and to admit that you see what you want to see. I see a guy that people thought had a talent (was perhaps overrated at #1 overall), but needed to be used correctly. When Harbaugh arrived, he was. Orton did not have his pedigree. At all. EJ's is closer. I'm not saying they are similar at all. Only that scouts' projections for the two are more in line.

 

OK. I am, too, FWIW.

 

 

And yet, he hasn't shown much for it. Why the longer leash for Marrone and not for a guy that he and the team invested in as a long term project?

 

 

Those QBs have precious little in common with each other or with EJ. What is the point? Leadership is a buzzword. Yet, Kelly, Wood and many others think he's exhibiting great leadership for what it's worth. The thing is, if you ask what EJ's #1 problem is, there is a new one every time, often invented ("slow eyes," "not making reads," "progressions," "inaccurate," "leadership," yadda yadda). I am surprised the kid can tie his shoes in the morning based on what people say about him here.

 

I think he can find his confidence, but I am not sure that the booing, the "columnists" trying to push his buttons, and extreme over-analysis of his every move including body language and press conference demeanor (from people who must have never watched Eli Manning in their lives) will contribute positively to that. One of the best things that he has going for him is that he seems to be able to stay positive and push out the doubters.

 

Even if you and I don't always have the same perspective about everything, I appreciate the clarity with which you've laid out your thoughts.

 

I'm not here to get under anyone's skin. I come here because I like football. The thing I want most for the Bills is for them to win a Super Bowl. That objective is very unlikely to be achieved until those running the team make more intelligent decisions than most of their NFL counterparts. That isn't happening now, and hasn't happened under any post-Polian GM.

 

As for Manuel: the two things I most value in a QB are accuracy and decision-making ability. An NFL QB should be able to process an incredible volume of spatial information in a very short amount of time. Most people--including most college quarterbacks--lack this mental bandwidth. Plenty of ex-Bills QBs are perfect examples. Rob Johnson had very good physical tools and was an accurate passer. But he couldn't process large volumes of information quickly. He focused his attention on downfield opportunities, while ignoring anything related to the pass rush. Trent Edwards made the opposite decision: he devoted his limited bandwidth to sack avoidance, not to looking for opportunities downfield. Which is why Edwards was much better than Johnson at avoiding sacks, but a lot worse at getting the ball to non-dump-off options. Losman is another example of a guy whose lack of mental tools led to a lack of success in the NFL.

 

Given this track record, Nix/Whaley decided to draft a first round QB with almost blissful disregard for whether he'd demonstrated any sort of fast information processing ability at the college level.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Plenty of ex-Bills QBs are perfect examples. Rob Johnson had very good physical tools and was an accurate passer. But he couldn't process large volumes of information quickly. He focused his attention on downfield opportunities, while ignoring anything related to the pass rush. Trent Edwards made the opposite decision: he devoted his limited bandwidth to sack avoidance, not to looking for opportunities downfield. Which is why Edwards was much better than Johnson at avoiding sacks, but a lot worse at getting the ball to non-dump-off options. Losman is another example of a guy whose lack of mental tools led to a lack of success in the NFL.

 

Great summary of our other anointed duds ... the thing is, they all showed flashes of good performance initially. But they all devolved into the same type of gun-shy disaster who took too many sacks on 3rd down.

 

I also think they were all too laid back as far as real leadership ability goes. Rob was a surfer dude, JP was a punk-ass kid who never owned his bad performances (which eventually turned the room on him), and Trent was ultimately too timid and too nice a guy. He never again wanted to get hit like Adrian Wilson hit him.

Edited September 5, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[C.Biscuit97]

Still suffering from th Chris Brown effect? I was a sucker once too.

 

Agreed. I only surround myself with the negative. Sullivan and that Sal dude from Rochester are the ones keeping it real!

 

EJ had 10 games. I'm not even watching this year. Just move them to Toronto now.

[Rocky Landing]

This was a very inspirational read.

 

Truth be told, it is really a puff-piece, and has to be taken with a grain of salt. That being said, I don't believe there is any fabrication here, and we can all hope that his preseason, and past-season woes were not entirely indicative of his ability.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I hope I never become like half of you on this board. You've taken the best sport in the world and somehow turned it into a chore it seems. Chore, hell, maybe torture.

[Rocky Landing]

I hope I never become like half of you on this board. You've taken the best sport in the world and somehow turned it into a chore it seems. Chore, hell, maybe torture.

Written without a shred of irony... Edited September 5, 2014 by Rocky Landing