BillsFanM.D. Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I'd let the process play out. As long as you've checked him out (which you clearly stated), and as long as he doesn't do anything egregious....I'd let it be. You'll have an opportunity to 'evaluate' him after the process. I'd save the constructive criticism until then. Otherwise, you might be removed from consideration as you said. If, however, he gets further from acceptable business behavior, you can opt to challenge him/his supervisors at any point along the way.
The Poojer Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 what about submitting 'additional writings', i honestly feel at this stage of the game, my resume is all i am willing to send, i am not going to invest extra time and effort when i am still in the first stages of the process...maybe if i get to the hiring manager. I'd let the process play out. As long as you've checked him out (which you clearly stated), and as long as he doesn't do anything egregious....I'd let it be. You'll have an opportunity to 'evaluate' him after the process. I'd save the constructive criticism until then. Otherwise, you might be removed from consideration as you said. If, however, he gets further from acceptable business behavior, you can opt to challenge him/his supervisors at any point along the way.
Captain Hindsight Posted October 14, 2014 Author Posted October 14, 2014 what about submitting 'additional writings', i honestly feel at this stage of the game, my resume is all i am willing to send, i am not going to invest extra time and effort when i am still in the first stages of the process...maybe if i get to the hiring manager. I wouldn't even know what that means. Additional writings? Does he want a writing sample?
The Poojer Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 its a retail/e-commerce business/data analyst position...maybe he wants to see a pivot table or a sql query...i don't know.... I wouldn't even know what that means. Additional writings? Does he want a writing sample?
DC Tom Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I wouldn't even know what that means. Additional writings? Does he want a writing sample? Probably TSW posts. Poojer's going to submit five thousand copies of "I would."
KD in CA Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 its a retail/e-commerce business/data analyst position...maybe he wants to see a pivot table or a sql query...i don't know.... He's probably applying for a job and trying to get you to do his interview homework for him. Sounds pretty shady to me.
Nanker Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Copy and paste a Nigerian Prince's email string asking for his bank account and PIN numbers.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I always love threads like this simply because I have trouble finding qualified candidates all of the time.
ricojes Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I'm finishing up my masters degree in a few months and yesterday I got my first phone call from a recruiter at a company in St. Paul Minnesota. We talked for a bit and the he asked me a few questions but I had no idea how to answer what my expected salary should be. I've done a few google searches but can find a good way to estimate it. I've never worked outside of the intern/ cashier role so I didn't even know where to begin. Any tips from my fellow Bills fans? Best advise I received for this question was to delay discussions of compensation as long as possible. You are the seller and the interviewer is the buyer. Early discussions of price are always to the seller's disadvantage. Once the buyer has made a firm decision to buy, price negotiations are much easier for the seller. Try to change the subject by saying you need to have more information on the job at hand in order to get a clear understanding of what fair compensation would be. Or I believe we need to discuss the job before discussing compensation further. If that doesn't get you off the hook, you really have no alternative but to answer. In that case you should do some research on starting salaries in your field and decide what's works for you as well... Edited October 14, 2014 by ricojes
IDBillzFan Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 here's one for you. Got several calls and emails from a recruiter about a local job. We finally connected yesterday via phone. All of his messages and emails indicate a very weak grasp of the english language in both conversation and in writing. No biggie, i can look past all that, but more on that in a little bit. We discuss the position, I express interest, he says he will pass it along to the hiring manager. Few minutes pass, I get an email asking to forward my resume and salary requirements, I respond quickly. Phone rings this morning at 7:48AM and he starts talking to me calling me by my last name, in all correspondence I have used my first and last name in the salutation, but he constantly calls me McCarthy and also does so in our email communications. So despite being a bit annoyed that he called before 8AM, I listen and he asks me to submit some 'writings' about the position and how I relate to the position. I ask him if my resume didn't already include all of that information, he says no, he needs 'writings'. I tell him that I will do my best to address it but that I do have a job I need to do, so hopefully I will have some 'writings' to him later today. I get to work and call his number which is local just to see if it is a legit number(i already looked into the recruiting firm he represents) it eventually goes to his voicemail so it seems ok, I look him up on linkedin and it indicates he is local to the philly area, so no issues there. The job is appealing to me, but I am not thrilled about how this person is handling the process, not sure if I should call the agency and express my displeasure in being called before 8AM, being called by my last name, the additional requests for 'writings'. I figure if I complain, my name gets immediately pulled from the candidate pull and while I am not 'actively' looking right now, i like to keep my options open if i see something interesting..... What say you? You're being played.
BillsFanM.D. Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Not sure about that part. It is weird. Without specifics of what he's requesting or how it pertains to position...I have no clue. That may be the 'tipping point' already to moving up the ladder to see what is going on. You could try to contact a supervisor and explain that you're willing to work with this recruiter but you are having a hard time understanding (literally) what it is he wants...and why. Nothing wrong with an honest conversation.
Chef Jim Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Ask for a face to face interview first. I would do zero work on this until you've had a chance to check out if they're legit.
mead107 Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 One job that my son interviewed for wanted a 1 page 30 day plan for what he would do to change things. He gave it to them and they told him he blew everyone else away. They made him an offer but he accepted the other job he was interviewing for. They even came back and offered him more money.
gomper Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 As someone who has done my share of hiring.....allow me to give some advice. Never. NEVER quote a # until parameters have been established. Not getting the answer you want? Feeling like your being BS'd? Ask to talk to his/her superior. If they are legit and interested in your ability, any boss worth a s will happily engage. The company will be happy they hired you. Have that attitude.....dont be a dick but be confident. Lord knows, I've hired more on balls than I care to count. It mostly works out.
GaryPinC Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 SDS had fantastic advice. Another way to weave more into it would be to look at your offer and expectations comprehensively. Say you want to learn more about the area the job is located, what the cost of living is like and how it compares to what you are used to, what about relocation services, benefits, vacation etc... Get the best deal you can. If they are locked into offering you a specific salary range for the position maybe they can sweeten the pot elsewhere, an extra week vacation, company car, etc... Agree with all this great advice. Just a couple perspective things to add: -No company ever gives you their top offer the first time unless they are overly vocal that they are doing just that. -Congrats on the masters, you are a new grad looking for his first job. Because of that, they should have a specific salary/range in mind for you. -Everything involved about the offer(benefits, vacation) is negotiable. -Just don't forget about assessing work environment. This makes a ton of difference to most people. -I always respect potential hires who are asking questions about how the company fits what they feel is important. Obviously you don't want to appear selfish or overly demanding but this is not just responsibilities and a salary. You will spend most of your day here and want to build your career with some degree of life balance and the companies worth working for will appreciate your questions to address this IMO. -Just because you're after your first job, don't take the attitude that you will not stick up for what you want. -Don't be afraid to ask for more but you must be able to justify why, even if it's simply your work ethics and dedication at this point. Just provide specific examples. -Most raises are done by % so being able to negotiate a higher salary means more $$ over time. Makes a big difference in about 5 years and will set the tone for your next job's salary since most companies will at least offer something above a lateral move. -Be careful to appreciate future career/opportunity of the position versus current salary level. If you don't have family costs/responsibilities now is one of the best times in your career to focus on the right opportunity.
GaryPinC Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 here's one for you. Got several calls and emails from a recruiter about a local job. We finally connected yesterday via phone. All of his messages and emails indicate a very weak grasp of the english language in both conversation and in writing. No biggie, i can look past all that, but more on that in a little bit. We discuss the position, I express interest, he says he will pass it along to the hiring manager. Few minutes pass, I get an email asking to forward my resume and salary requirements, I respond quickly. Phone rings this morning at 7:48AM and he starts talking to me calling me by my last name, in all correspondence I have used my first and last name in the salutation, but he constantly calls me McCarthy and also does so in our email communications. So despite being a bit annoyed that he called before 8AM, I listen and he asks me to submit some 'writings' about the position and how I relate to the position. I ask him if my resume didn't already include all of that information, he says no, he needs 'writings'. I tell him that I will do my best to address it but that I do have a job I need to do, so hopefully I will have some 'writings' to him later today. I get to work and call his number which is local just to see if it is a legit number(i already looked into the recruiting firm he represents) it eventually goes to his voicemail so it seems ok, I look him up on linkedin and it indicates he is local to the philly area, so no issues there. The job is appealing to me, but I am not thrilled about how this person is handling the process, not sure if I should call the agency and express my displeasure in being called before 8AM, being called by my last name, the additional requests for 'writings'. I figure if I complain, my name gets immediately pulled from the candidate pull and while I am not 'actively' looking right now, i like to keep my options open if i see something interesting..... What say you? I too think you're getting played or the guy is massively incompetent. Recruiting agencies want to present a first class business image to employer clients and candidate clients. As an interested, viable candidate representing potential income for the recruiting company they would be far, far more likely to fire the recruiter than black list you for how the guy has interacted with you.
Security Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 You should have no issue asking the recruiter what the range is that he is recruiting for, and also no issue asking that person what the current market rate is for a person like yourself as well. They sometimes get paid a flat rate based on placing you, but I have found they make more money, the more money that you make, so it is in this person's best interest to place you at as high of a salary as possible in most cases. Don't be shy.
plenzmd1 Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Welcome to the new world of graduates. With a bachelors degree you are qualified for free labor and thats it. I know plenty of my friends have either had to work at a restaurant or a gym to make ends meet. These days you either work below your degree or get a masters. And I have serious debt. Signed another big loan this morning Not to be a richard here Captain, but i do not buy this. I work with several companies and their talent acquisition folks, and college recruiting is more challenging today than ever. Problem is, for 17 years kids have been preached to that if they put in the work, get in the right college,get good grades in college, you write your own ticket and it is all gravy from there. So, they get out of school and expect that they should be paid more for the same job than someone from a "lesser" college,or someone with lesser grades, and they expect to be making $75K first job. PLenty of jobs out there at great companies that are perfectly fine first jobs. First jobs do not mean you get to buy a house, or live without roommates, or buy $40K cars...they are first jobs.You are 23 , prove you deserve more money on the job, as Chef stated, work your ass off, and you will get compensated. I put most of these blame on parents..i see it first hand every day. They devote so much of their ego in what college their kids were able to get into and attend...they ain't coming out of that making $45K.Too big of a blow to the parents ego...and that is transferred to the kids. OKay, over my get off the lawn rant...and this was not directed at you. Edited October 15, 2014 by plenzmd1
KD in CA Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Not to be a richard here Captain, but i do not buy this. I work with several companies and their talent acquisition folks, and college recruiting is more challenging today than ever. Problem is, for 17 years kids have been preached to that if they put in the work, get in the right college,get good grades in college, you write your own ticket and it is all gravy from there. So, they get out of school and expect that they should be paid more for the same job than someone from a "lesser" college,or someone with lesser grades, and they expect to be making $75K first job. PLenty of jobs out there at great companies that are perfectly fine first jobs. First jobs do not mean you get to buy a house, or live without roommates, or buy $40K cars...they are first jobs.You are 23 , prove you deserve more money on the job, as Chef stated, work your ass off, and you will get compensated. I put most of these blame on parents..i see it first hand every day. They devote so much of their ego in what college their kids were able to get into and attend...they ain't coming out of that making $45K.Too big of a blow to the parents ego...and that is transferred to the kids. OKay, over my get off the lawn rant...and this was not directed at you. I agree. The 'worthless college degree' bullsh-- has become the new default thing to say. I don't buy it either, the opportunities are out there. I think it's exactly right that many kids are spoiled and have no idea how to hustle to either find a job or improve their situation. But a lot of kids HAVE figured out what it takes to succeed so the competition for good jobs has intensified. We hired a recent college grad to be our Admin 9 months ago. She's been awesome: great attitude, busts her hump, deals with the work stress, and keeps up with our very demanding CEO. This week she transferred into the Marketing group where she wants to make her career. I wonder how many other kids with Marketing degrees would have turned up their noses at an Admin job or done a half-assed job while they whined about college debt and fetching coffee instead of putting their best effort forward.
The Poojer Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 i don't think i am getting played, my initial thought was that it was from an offshore call center, that was why i called the number and looked him up on linkedin, and by all indications he seems to be local to the philly area, granted his linked in profile is very vague. I get that recruiting can be a cattle call type of thing, i was just really turned off by his approach and would think the company would be horrified to know how it is being represented...or maybe they really just don't care. I too think you're getting played or the guy is massively incompetent. Recruiting agencies want to present a first class business image to employer clients and candidate clients. As an interested, viable candidate representing potential income for the recruiting company they would be far, far more likely to fire the recruiter than black list you for how the guy has interacted with you.
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