The Dean Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Damn, you really are Love Corn. I am love corn. Nothing like getting that fist job, I always say.
Chef Jim Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 I'm sorry but I have to say it. You have a masters degree but your only practical experience in anything is as a cashier or an intern? For some reason that just amazes me. Either your parents have big bucks or you're loaded with some serious student load debt.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 I'm sorry but I have to say it. You have a masters degree but your only practical experience in anything is as a cashier or an intern? For some reason that just amazes me. Either your parents have big bucks or you're loaded with some serious student load debt. Welcome to the new world of graduates. With a bachelors degree you are qualified for free labor and thats it. I know plenty of my friends have either had to work at a restaurant or a gym to make ends meet. These days you either work below your degree or get a masters. And I have serious debt. Signed another big loan this morning
Chef Jim Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Welcome to the new world of graduates. With a bachelors degree you are qualified for free labor and thats it. I know plenty of my friends have either had to work at a restaurant or a gym to make ends meet. These days you either work below your degree or get a masters. And I have serious debt. Signed another big loan this morning All depends on what your degree is and how marketable it is. I would imagine many hiring managers would much rather talk to someone with a bachelors degree with a decent amount of practical experience in their field than someone with a masters degree with zero or very little practical experience. But that's just me with my dinky associates degree in Culinary Arts. Oh and when you do find work talk to someone about IBR (income based repayment) with regard to deferring some of your loans. PM me if you have questions. Unless of course they're private loans then you're **** out of luck. Edited September 4, 2014 by Chef Jim
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 I'm finishing up my masters degree in a few months and yesterday I got my first phone call from a recruiter at a company in St. Paul Minnesota. We talked for a bit and the he asked me a few questions but I had no idea how to answer what my expected salary should be. I've done a few google searches but can find a good way to estimate it. I've never worked outside of the intern/ cashier role so I didn't even know where to begin. Any tips from my fellow Bills fans? SDS had fantastic advice. Another way to weave more into it would be to look at your offer and expectations comprehensively. Say you want to learn more about the area the job is located, what the cost of living is like and how it compares to what you are used to, what about relocation services, benefits, vacation etc... Get the best deal you can. If they are locked into offering you a specific salary range for the position maybe they can sweeten the pot elsewhere, an extra week vacation, company car, etc...
The Dean Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 SDS had fantastic advice. Another way to weave more into it would be to look at your offer and expectations comprehensively. Say you want to learn more about the area the job is located, what the cost of living is like and how it compares to what you are used to, what about relocation services, benefits, vacation etc... Get the best deal you can. If they are locked into offering you a specific salary range for the position maybe they can sweeten the pot elsewhere, an extra week vacation, company car, etc... For first job, even though the salary was reasonable (I really didn't know wht to expect---no Google back then and I got a job that I didn't even know existed), I asked for a 6 month evaluation to revisit salary. I really had no idea what the hell I was doing, but it worked out.pretty good for me. Got a sizable raise after those 6 months.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 How is the retirement home stripper circuit treating you? Damn that's harsh! LoL... Take it easy on the poor fella.
Mike in Syracuse Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Answer: "I'm not interested in talking salary right now. I need to make sure this is the right move for me professionally first. I'm confident if I am the right fit, that I will be compensated appropriately." Hold your ground. Insist it will work out. When they make their offer, pause if given verbally, then ask for 10% above that because she will have given you a mid-range quote for what they will pay. I did this when I got hired at Agilent and the HR person told me after it was all done, I was the best negotiator she ever tried to hire. SDS is spot on here as far as negotiation goes. It's standard procedure for HR to try to pin you down on a number. If you come in below what they already have budgeted for the position they'll happily pay you less. If you come in above you do run the risk of pricing yourself out of the position. In addition to stressing that you want to be sure of the "fit", tell them that you would need to consider the total compensation package and that you'd prefer to save the salary discussions for later. We're in a new age where it isn't always about salary. Having great benefits, extra vacation and a comprehensive health plan is worth consideration.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 SDS is spot on here as far as negotiation goes. It's standard procedure for HR to try to pin you down on a number. If you come in below what they already have budgeted for the position they'll happily pay you less. If you come in above you do run the risk of pricing yourself out of the position. In addition to stressing that you want to be sure of the "fit", tell them that you would need to consider the total compensation package and that you'd prefer to save the salary discussions for later. We're in a new age where it isn't always about salary. Having great benefits, extra vacation and a comprehensive health plan is worth consideration. This. When I switched jobs last year, when asked about salary demands I gave a number that was 10% higher than my previous job. They weren't able to go that high, but gave me a little more than I was currently on and they cut my hours from 45 to 35 a week, making my rate per hour actually higher and gave me 10 more days vacation than I previously got. That was just enough to sway me and I asked if my salary could be reviewed after 6 months, which they accepted and I am now making more than 10% higher than I asked originally. I'm a lot happier on the lower hours and I still have vacation days left that I'm not sure what to do with.
shrader Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 For first job, even though the salary was reasonable (I really didn't know wht to expect---no Google back then and I got a job that I didn't even know existed), I asked for a 6 month evaluation to revisit salary. I really had no idea what the hell I was doing, but it worked out.pretty good for me. Got a sizable raise after those 6 months. This is definitely a good thing to push for if possible. If it is a big company, HR is going to go out of their way to make sure you get the lowest amount possible, especially with zero experience. I was lucky enough with my first job to have my boss push for a 6 month evaluation (I was completely clueless at that point and didn't know to ask for one). They completely low-balled me on that starting salary, and really, with every salary I ever made at that place. Still, you have to start somewhere and if you can get that slightly earlier raise, every penny helps.
Mark80 Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) "I would like to get paid whatever is appropriate for the position" is a perfectly acceptable response for someone who really doesn't have salary expectations. Let them make the offer first and decide whether you want to negotiate or not after that (and after they've offered you the job). Also, don't be afraid to ask what the person who previously held that position was paid and base a number off of that. Edited September 4, 2014 by Mark80
The Dean Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 This. When I switched jobs last year, when asked about salary demands I gave a number that was 10% higher than my previous job. They weren't able to go that high, but gave me a little more than I was currently on and they cut my hours from 45 to 35 a week, making my rate per hour actually higher and gave me 10 more days vacation than I previously got. That was just enough to sway me and I asked if my salary could be reviewed after 6 months, which they accepted and I am now making more than 10% higher than I asked originally. I'm a lot happier on the lower hours and I still have vacation days left that I'm not sure what to do with. This is what I mean. You asked for more than they were offering, but got the job. Very rarely does asking for more than what is budgeted eliminate you as a candidate. Particularly when they are hiring someone fresh out of school. As long as you are in the ballpark for what the position pays (can pay) you should be fine. You can negotiate from there. And I love the 6 month review strategy. The same might not work once you are more established and you ask for a salary well above what they intend to pay. That can tell them you are looking for a different position than what is being offered. Saves both sides time and trouble.
Fan in San Diego Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Answer: "I'm not interested in talking salary right now. I need to make sure this is the right move for me professionally first. I'm confident if I am the right fit, that I will be compensated appropriately." Hold your ground. Insist it will work out. When they make their offer, pause if given verbally, then ask for 10% above that because she will have given you a mid-range quote for what they will pay. I did this when I got hired at Agilent and the HR person told me after it was all done, I was the best negotiator she ever tried to hire. Solid advice SDS.
Kevbeau Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Welcome to the new world of graduates. With a bachelors degree you are qualified for free labor and thats it. I know plenty of my friends have either had to work at a restaurant or a gym to make ends meet. These days you either work below your degree or get a masters. And I have serious debt. Signed another big loan this morning Does RIT not require co-ops terms anymore?...or what that just for Bachelor's degrees? We hire a bunch of interns from GA Tech (they encourage, don't require co-ops) and in most cases it seems to work well for all parties.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 Does RIT not require co-ops terms anymore?...or what that just for Bachelor's degrees? We hire a bunch of interns from GA Tech (they encourage, don't require co-ops) and in most cases it seems to work well for all parties. Undergrad only for co-ops and not for every program now from what I've been hearing. I went to UB for undergrad
Cynical Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 This is what I mean. You asked for more than they were offering, but got the job. Very rarely does asking for more than what is budgeted eliminate you as a candidate. Particularly when they are hiring someone fresh out of school. In today's economic climate, a salary requirement that is higher than budgeted will get a prospect eliminated from consideration, even for the noobs out of school. I am seeing salary requirements being requested as part of the cover letter with the rationale the requirement is being used as a filter. Did not include a requirement in the letter? Eliminated, cannot follow direction. Too high? Eliminated, too expensive. Too low? Eliminated, either the candidate is desperate, and/or did not spend enough time researching salary for the career. SDS has the best solution. Get the employer to admit the job seeker is a viable candidate for the position. This can be spun by job seeker as "if I am not a viable candidate, then there is no need to discuss salary/compensation." Then ask the employer what they had budgeted for the position. Work from there.
The Dean Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 In today's economic climate, a salary requirement that is higher than budgeted will get a prospect eliminated from consideration, even for the noobs out of school. I am seeing salary requirements being requested as part of the cover letter with the rationale the requirement is being used as a filter. Did not include a requirement in the letter? Eliminated, cannot follow direction. Too high? Eliminated, too expensive. Too low? Eliminated, either the candidate is desperate, and/or did not spend enough time researching salary for the career. SDS has the best solution. Get the employer to admit the job seeker is a viable candidate for the position. This can be spun by job seeker as "if I am not a viable candidate, then there is no need to discuss salary/compensation." Then ask the employer what they had budgeted for the position. Work from there. I like SDS's solution, too. But using your own logic, the prospective employer could eliminate a candidate using that strategy as they didn't follow the directions and indicate a salary. I could see the same HR drone who tossed out an application that asked for a salary that was a tad too high (and of course, with all the appropriate language that should be included with any salary requirement) deciding the SDS approach was too vague and was an attempt to game the system (the HR drone's system, that is). The big problem here is, much of this is being done by Human Resources, who IMO are, as a group, some of the most horrible people in any company. The are employment obstructionists. Maybe it is because my job was so unusual, they really had no clue how to evaluate resumes. I typically had to back door them, and contact the CEO or someone in upper management directly. If you can bypass them, you can pretty much talk to a prospective boss without worrying about games like this.
KD in CA Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 In today's economic climate, a salary requirement that is higher than budgeted will get a prospect eliminated from consideration, even for the noobs out of school. I am seeing salary requirements being requested as part of the cover letter with the rationale the requirement is being used as a filter. Did not include a requirement in the letter? Eliminated, cannot follow direction. Too high? Eliminated, too expensive. Too low? Eliminated, either the candidate is desperate, and/or did not spend enough time researching salary for the career. Yup. Hiring managers/HR get so many resumes that time simply doesn't allow for a thorough review of each one without some basic filters that can narrow down the pile; salary and degree being two of the easiest and most objective ones to apply. I've also used location -- if I know the commute is too long that's someone who is less likely to take the job or stay long term. In the past I used a company that had an online tool (applying on Monster, etc would route you to the tool) that allowed you to ask candidates a series of multiple choice questions which you could weight in importance and come up with an aggregate score. Only those who exceeded your designated threshold would have the resumes passed on. Worked pretty well.
Chef Jim Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Yup. Hiring managers/HR get so many resumes that time simply doesn't allow for a thorough review of each one without some basic filters that can narrow down the pile; salary and degree being two of the easiest and most objective ones to apply. I've also used location -- if I know the commute is too long that's someone who is less likely to take the job or stay long term. In the past I used a company that had an online tool (applying on Monster, etc would route you to the tool) that allowed you to ask candidates a series of multiple choice questions which you could weight in importance and come up with an aggregate score. Only those who exceeded your designated threshold would have the resumes passed on. Worked pretty well. This is where Linkedin can really help and using an outside recruiter helps as well. I went to an all day workshop at Linkedin a year or so ago and it was very interesting. As a hiring manager you work with the recruiter to really make it clear what you're looking for and searching on Linkedin works well (unfortunately we don't use it properly which is another topic). That way the candidates that eventually make it to the hiring manager are very well qualified. Allows the hiring manager to spend their time with qualified candidates vs sifting through all candidates to find the qualified ones.
The Poojer Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 here's one for you. Got several calls and emails from a recruiter about a local job. We finally connected yesterday via phone. All of his messages and emails indicate a very weak grasp of the english language in both conversation and in writing. No biggie, i can look past all that, but more on that in a little bit. We discuss the position, I express interest, he says he will pass it along to the hiring manager. Few minutes pass, I get an email asking to forward my resume and salary requirements, I respond quickly. Phone rings this morning at 7:48AM and he starts talking to me calling me by my last name, in all correspondence I have used my first and last name in the salutation, but he constantly calls me McCarthy and also does so in our email communications. So despite being a bit annoyed that he called before 8AM, I listen and he asks me to submit some 'writings' about the position and how I relate to the position. I ask him if my resume didn't already include all of that information, he says no, he needs 'writings'. I tell him that I will do my best to address it but that I do have a job I need to do, so hopefully I will have some 'writings' to him later today. I get to work and call his number which is local just to see if it is a legit number(i already looked into the recruiting firm he represents) it eventually goes to his voicemail so it seems ok, I look him up on linkedin and it indicates he is local to the philly area, so no issues there. The job is appealing to me, but I am not thrilled about how this person is handling the process, not sure if I should call the agency and express my displeasure in being called before 8AM, being called by my last name, the additional requests for 'writings'. I figure if I complain, my name gets immediately pulled from the candidate pull and while I am not 'actively' looking right now, i like to keep my options open if i see something interesting..... What say you?
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