cap numbers

[plenzmd1]

Look at some of these figures, just unbelievable from the Titans. Keven Carter at $14M. Did the dude even play this year? For those who watch more closely than I, do we like either of these tackles for our OL.

 

 

 

 

 

With 10 of their top players combining for almost $77 million in cap space, expect the turnover to be even greater in 2005. Among the potential hits are wide receiver Derrick Mason (due $3.2 million this year), cornerback Samari Rolle ($5.5 million), defensive tackle Kevin Carter ($13.97 million), and both offensive tackles, Brad Hopkins and Fred Miller.

[ch19079]

Not get caught for a couple years, win some Super Bowls, then lose some draft picks.  Nice going, Mike Shanahan  :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

220716[/snapback]

 

im glad someone else thaught that was completly INSANE

[stuckincincy]

FWIW, the Hamilton County OH lawsuit against the B'gals and the NFL is moving on in Federal Court. The NFL is fighting mightily, because if the County prevails, any NFL team that gets one dime's benefit from a public entity will have to open their books for all to see - including cap data.

[FTW_BillsFan]

How in the world is Philly that far under the cap w/ McNabb, TO, and Kearse along with others? Any Minn. 30 MIL under the cap? Is there some cap trick they are using that we need to tell TD?

 

Ty Law is history at NE. They found out they can win without him and they will cut him off.

[BB2004]

did you notice Jennings was not mentioned. and is RAREly even mentioned as a FA.

 

seems not alot of writers even know he exists. how can he be worth 20 mil. signing bonus if hes not good enouph to even be mentioned...

 

Pace or Jones PLEASE!!!!!!

220575[/snapback]

 

The Chicago Bears want Walter Jones. If we can get Jennings at an affordable price, we need to take advantage of it. Orlando Pace would be a stretch for us, but we can always hope.

[ch19079]

Among the potential hits are wide receiver Derrick Mason (due $3.2 million this year), cornerback Samari Rolle ($5.5 million), defensive tackle Kevin Carter ($13.97 million), and both offensive tackles, Brad Hopkins and Fred Miller.

220719[/snapback]

 

http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/players...=3660&Submit=Go

 

F. Miller, 9 years experience,

in 2004: 13 penalties (8 false starts), 9.5 sacks allowed...

 

B. Hopkins, 12 years experience,

in 2004: 4 penalties, 2.5 sacks allowed

 

and they have carter listed as a DE.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

did you notice Jennings was not mentioned. and is RAREly even mentioned as a FA.

 

seems not alot of writers even know he exists. how can he be worth 20 mil. signing bonus if hes not good enouph to even be mentioned...

 

Pace or Jones PLEASE!!!!!!

220575[/snapback]

 

 

Many thanks for finding this and your work and thought on this. I love these numbers because they seem to confirm a lot of what I have been thinking about Jennings. Though AT is an obvious place for him in terms of his desires amd their desire to protect Vick, it will be pretty hard for them to talk serious money for him. As folks like Walter Jones and Pace draw the top LT FA dollars and most other teams have made bid dollar long-term commitments to other players at LT (from 8 of the top 10 teams in OL cap hit to folks who have given long-term contracts to pedestrian talents like Petitgout and Clifton I don't think there is a big marhet out there for the Bills to compete with for Jennings.

 

We can reward him with a contract that is more money than he has ever made before and actually get him for less than the $5 million buck annual salary folks are talking about and lesser talents have already gotten. Rediculously some folks have even talked about giving Jennings atop 10 OL cap hit because the fear losing him.

 

I think he is a good player but I hope TD does not pay him through the nose and lets him walk if he gets a great offer because I think we can resign him on the cheap as LT salaries go. If he does get a good salary fine as I think we have multiple options for replacing him.

[drnykterstein]

How in the world is Philly that far under the cap w/ McNabb, TO, and Kearse along with others?  Any Minn. 30 MIL under the cap?  Is there some cap trick they are using that we need to tell TD?

 

Ty Law is history at NE.  They found out they can win without him and they will cut him off.

220730[/snapback]

Yeah, its called not having any talent on defense.

C'mon they have Keith Newman as a starting LB, we cut him 2 years ago.

[clumping platelets]

What is amazinfg is the comment about the Fins. Can Fiedler and Boston really have a combined cap figure of $17M. Can that really be right? Man if so, Saban better get a more astute personnel guy down there. Somebody remind me, was Boston traded from the Chargers, or cut and then sign by the fins.

220641[/snapback]

 

 

Releasing them both saves about $10 million

 

Convert Chambers' $5 million roster bonus to signing bonus saves $4 million.

 

Use link in sig to see other numbers

 

---------------------

 

I use an $86 million salary cap estimate and have the Bills around $7.5 million under but we are still waiting to see if McGahee and M. Williams triggered salary escalator clauses (this is why Mike Williams has been asked to re-work his deal....his cap number could go to about $9 million if he maxed out the escalator)

[Dan III]

I use an $86 million salary cap estimate and have the Bills around $7.5 million under but we are still waiting to see if McGahee and M. Williams triggered salary escalator clauses (this is why Mike Williams has been asked to re-work his deal....his cap number could go to about $9 million if he maxed out the escalator)

221228[/snapback]

I haven't seen any reports about a re-structure for Big Mike. If TD can get EM, DB and MW to re-work their deals that should save us at least $7 mill against the cap.

[clumping platelets]

I haven't seen any reports about a re-structure for Big Mike. If TD can get EM, DB and MW to re-work their deals that should save us at least $7 mill against the cap.

221236[/snapback]

 

Channel 4 in Buffalo mentioned it on their sports report at 10pm

[Dan III]

Channel 4 in Buffalo mentioned it on their sports report at 10pm

221237[/snapback]

Nice. Thanks for the update. Man, I miss Empire.

 

 

Adelphia :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

[clumping platelets]

Nice. Thanks for the update. Man, I miss Empire.

Adelphia :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

221239[/snapback]

 

 

I agree

 

Adelphia :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

[plenzmd1]

How in the world is Philly that far under the cap w/ McNabb, TO, and Kearse along with others?  Any Minn. 30 MIL under the cap?  Is there some cap trick they are using that we need to tell TD?

 

Ty Law is history at NE.  They found out they can win without him and they will cut him off.

220730[/snapback]

 

Yea, there is a trick, and both the Eagles and the Pats use it!, and TD needs to start using it now!. DO NOT let stud young players get to their contract year. What I mean is that when the Eagles or Pats spot a guy they want long term, they re do the guys contarct early. For example, Lito Sheppard was reworked early this year, in his 3rd year of a 4 yr deal, to a long term contract.Guys will sacrifice the chance to be a FA for long term security IE> BONUS MONEY when they have more than a year left on their deal.

Yes, the eagles gave him a large bonus, but it is a 7 yr contract so the bonus money is spread out. Now, the risk is if this guy gets hurt and cant play anymore, your screwed. How often do you see a guy from either of these teams hit the FA market in their 4th or 5th year, at least ones they want to keep. Just doesn't happen. That is why I keep pounding we need to get Nate done as soon as camp starts, rework Big Mike, and rework McGee, and get them all done this year. Especially Nate. Once these guys start playin games in their contract year, your chance of keeping them off the market goes to next to nothing.

 

Again, use this for guys in their first contract, not guys like Fletcher, Spikes etc, that will be close to or over 30 when their deals expire

[pm73]

32 Tennessee Titans $-26 M

The Titans are clearly in cap trouble and are going to have to make some tough decisions regarding their current roster. That could mean waving adios to Derek Mason and Samari Rolle.

 

220527[/snapback]

 

 

i'd much rather keep him but if we can't restructure EM, how bout trading him and bringing in mason if he is released. mason and evans, that would be a nice combo. and he'd probably come at half the price of EM.

[d_wag]

Yea, there is a trick, and both the Eagles and the Pats use it!, and TD needs to start using it now!. DO NOT let stud young players get to their contract year. What I mean is that when the Eagles or Pats spot a guy they want long term, they re do the guys contarct early. For example, Lito Sheppard was reworked early this year, in his 3rd year of a 4 yr deal, to a long term contract.Guys will sacrifice the chance to be a FA for long term security IE> BONUS MONEY when they have more than a year left on their deal.

Yes, the eagles gave him a large bonus, but it is a 7 yr contract so the bonus money is spread out. Now, the risk is if this guy gets hurt and cant play anymore, your screwed. How often do you see a guy from either of these teams hit the FA market in their 4th or 5th year, at least ones they want to keep. Just doesn't happen. That is why I keep pounding we need to get Nate done as soon as camp starts, rework Big Mike, and rework McGee, and get them all done this year. Especially Nate. Once these guys start playin games in their contract year, your chance of keeping them off the market goes to next to nothing.

 

Again, use this for guys in their first contract, not guys like Fletcher, Spikes etc, that will be close to or over 30 when their deals expire

221332[/snapback]

 

great post.........everyone loves to say "but how could he resign winfield or jennings when they want so much money?" while missing the point that if TD showed faith in them EARLIER and didn't lowball them with bullsh*t offers they would already be locked up and going no where.........i'll give him credit for getting schobel signed, but he screwed up by letting winfield and jennings get to free agency and i hope he doesn't make the same mistake with nate........it's a shame to develop good YOUNG players only to see them walk away when they're entering their prime.......but like i said, no one wants to blame TD for letting it happen and insist that every player that walks out of here is just greedy......

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

great post.........everyone loves to say "but how could he resign winfield or jennings when they want so much money?" while missing the point that if TD showed faith in them EARLIER and didn't lowball them with bullsh*t offers they would already be locked up and going no where.........i'll give him credit for getting schobel signed, but he screwed up by letting winfield and jennings get to free agency and i hope he doesn't make the same mistake with nate........it's a shame to develop good YOUNG players only to see them walk away when they're entering their prime.......but like i said, no one wants to blame TD for letting it happen and insist that every player that walks out of here is just greedy......

221366[/snapback]

 

This good news that TD and MW are talking restructuring, he is scheduled to get a near top 10 OL salary when clearly he is not a top ten OL player (most are LTS) in this league.

 

However, while scanning this thread I took note of this post which claims that TD and the Bills made major errors in "choosing" to let player s reach the FA market that we should have believed in and cites Winfield and Jennings as examples of this. This view strikes me as simply incorrect on a number of fronts.

 

1. The Bills were actually moving to lock up Winfield negotiations just prior to the 2003 season. However, a number of unexpected events occured and we used the money set aside in the cap to resign AW to aign Milloy.

 

Plan A as the Bills were trying to deal with a GW/Gray inspired effort to acquire and plug Jenkins in at SS which failed leading to the horrow of plugging Wire in as our starting SS as a rookie was to sign vet Chad Cota to back-up and school Wire. He agreed to sign but then retired. TD had a not bad plan B which was Battles but he decided not to play as well. The Bills were headed into the 2003 season with only 3 safeties on the roster but we had the good fortune of Belichick mishandling the renegtiation with Milloy.

 

We jumped at this saving grace which not only filled a huge hole in our D (a hole which actually dated back to the failure of Raion Hill to fill the gap made by a dumb cutting of Henry Jones after giving him bucks by restructuring) but played a critical role in us simply destroying a far better team in NE 31-0.

 

Winfield hit the market and not only did the Jets agree to pay him more than the cap allowed us to offer, but Minn actually stole him from the Jets with an even bigger offer after AW agreed to the NYJ but had not signed the deal. Claiming that TD and the Bills made a choice to let AW into the market simply does not fit the reality of the impacts of our crawl away from cap hell and the events which occured in the real world.

 

2. JJ does not deserve at all the faith that would overpay him out of the market as a player and the market may yet allow him to be signed to a long-term deal for a dirt cheap amount by past NFL LT standards.

 

First simply compare JJ's record of surviving injuries to start games to the top tier LTs and you will see that Pace made the Pro Bowl the last two years and started 16 games both years. Jones made the Pro Bowl both years and also started 16 games. JJ not only has not been seen by his peers, coaches and fans as one of the top LTs in the conference, but he did not start all the games this year and in fact ended the season on IR the season before that. He certainly does not merit top 10 OL money and there is even a reasonable question as to whether he will play and merit what has become a typical LT contract.

 

Of even greater import to the Bills and shows GM to have a tremendous understanding of the marketplace, JJ may not even command the typical salary to resign him as really only SF and Seattle, the Rams or Philly if they lose Jones, Pace or Thomas seems to have the cap room to make a big offer to JJ. AT is a great example of this phenomena as they certainly have an LT need and JJ would love to go there, but after signing Vick to a $100+ million contract and sliding big bucks to FAs like Peerless, they will likely be cutting players to simply make the cap not offering big contracts.

 

Taking a big risk on JJ does not seem warranted by his record of injury and also does not seem necessary based on likely demand.

 

3. Finally a complaint that the Bills have not resigned players seems simply false based on the record and compared to other teams. The Bills have one of the lowest numbers of remaining unsigned players in the league. JJ and Phat Pat are the only two unsigned starters. This contrasts with other league teams like Seattle who massive cap room probably will not fit their need to sign Walter Jones, AND Shaun Alexander, AND Matt Hasselback AND other players or Philly who must resign Corey Simon and Tra Thomas and whoever else.

 

They probably have only more to do than NE, but the value of Vinateri versus JJ and Phat Pat even puts this question into play.

 

an accusation that the Bills have not held onto and restructured what we got simply does not match the facts.

[d_wag]

Claiming that TD and the Bills made a choice to let AW into the market simply does not fit the reality of the impacts of our crawl away from cap hell and the events which occured in the real world.

 

if TD didn't choose to not resign AW, who did?

 

you can point to not having enough room in the '03 cap to make a simple extension, but why wasn't there enough room? TD is the one who assembled that cap and if he put more importance on resigning AW he would have MADE SURE there was enough room to do it.........

 

cutting brown would have created more then enough space to give AW an extension, and TD choose not to do that.......

 

restructuring bledsoe before/during that season would have created more then enough space to give AW an extension, and TD choose not to do that.......

 

i could go on, but the point is there are a dozen different ways more cap room could have been created, but TD choose not to do that........

 

Taking a big risk on JJ does not seem warranted by his record of injury and also does not seem necessary  based on likely demand.

 

i disagree, as i do see plenty of demand for JJ from around the league.......

 

i want him back, just like i want most good, young players back, and the way to do that is to get the signing bonuses out there early and avoid the lure of free agency before the player gets to close.......

 

 

TD has chosen to NOT resign him, to let him get to the market, and i feel this is an error........the point is it was a choice by TD to let him get to this point.........

 

an accusation that the Bills have not held onto and restructured what we got simply does not match the facts.

 

so a good young player in winfield didn't leave?

 

a good young player in jennings is not another possible departure?

 

seems like a fact to me.........those are the players i was talking about, not others........

 

doesn't matter what team i cheer for -- if my team has a healthy salary cap and STILL allows good young players to hit free agency and walk away, i'm going to call out the GM.........i don't want to hear excuses, i just want to see good young talent stick around........

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

if TD didn't choose to not resign AW, who did?

235408[/snapback]

 

Obviously TD is the GM and the buck stops with him. However, the recognition of reality needs to see that TD had laid aside the cap room to re-sign AW and negotiations were moving along and both parties were saying they though a deal would get done as the 2003 season moved toward opening,but this deal did not get done as an opportunity to get Milloy appeared and we made the deal.

 

I'm not arguing about the deal for AW nit getting done, it obviously didn't. I just don't think it is realistic to fault TD for not wanting to do exactly what you advocate because he clearly was getting that done, but did not end up doing it for legitimate reasons. Do you argue that we should have extended AW and simply gone with Wire, Reese and Prioleau as our sfteties in 2003 and we should have never acquired Milloy? Fine if you do, but I think you will find few folks who would choose to A D with AW but without Milloy over a D with Milloy but without AW.

 

We simply have a better statistical D that gets lots of turnovers in the world TD created than in the probable world you propose.

 

i disagree, as i do see plenty of demand for JJ from around the league.......

 

235408[/snapback]

 

 

Who specifically are the teams which make up this plenty of demand.

 

It's not AT where JJ would love to go and needs an LT or almost of the half the league in marginal cap shape because they will be cutting big contracts to simply make the cap rather than offering big contracts.

 

It's not any of the 7 or 8 teams teams with LT cap hits in the top 10 because they are not in the market for JJ.

 

It's not the third of the leage or so that has been forced by the market to offer long-term bigger than they deserve from their play contracts to players like Clifton and Petitgout because they are out of the market.

 

This raw number adds up to more than 31 because some of these teams fall onto 2 or all 3 lists.

 

However, as best as I can tell the specific market for JJ amounts to SF who has the cap room and the need though it is unclear i they have the owner commitment and Sea, St. L or Philly if they lose Jones, Pace or Thomas. All JJ needs is one deal so he may be gone, but the market looks really tight for him and I suspect the Bills may resign him even though this move will likely preclude us from doing what many folks want to see and have us upgrade the LG talent.

 

The key here it strikes me ist that even a below previous LT market rate deal for JJ of $4 million probably preculdes making a Vilarial level offer ($3 mill to an LG) because the combination of that deal with a $5.8 million cap hit for MW probably uses up the OL cap budget. The key here probably revolves ariound restructuring MW and low-balling JJ and only then can you sign more talent on the OL.

 

 

 

 

i don't want to hear excuses, i just want to see good young talent stick around........

235408[/snapback]

 

What good young players are you talking about besides AW and JJ? Brandon Spoon? Dom Stevenson? The Bills record is simply one of having retained a pretty good number of their draft choices. If anything folks are faulting him for making bad picks (though I disagree with this in general) and hanging on to them too long as their is a din on TSW that guys like Wire or Reed should be gone.

 

The Bills have relatively few starters left unsigned compared to most other teams and that i just the facts. One has to look toward an extraordinary case like NE to find a record comparable to the Bills in not having key FA resignings to do this off-season and we compare quite favorably to other teams. You'd have a point supported by the facts if other teams had fewer starters or key players as FAs, but since other teams would have to have fewer than 2 starters as FAs its hard to show a huge difference with the rest of the league to the Bills disadvantage.

[d_wag]

Do you argue that we should have extended AW and simply gone with Wire, Reese and Prioleau as our sfteties in 2003 and we should have never acquired Milloy?  Fine if you do, but I think you will find few folks who would choose to A D with AW but without Milloy over a D with Milloy but without AW.

 

nope, not suggesting that at all.......we could have signed milloy AND extended winfield........

 

brown could have been cut, freeing up plenty of room to resign him........

 

bledsoe could have been given an extension then, dropping his 5.5M cap number.........

 

signing milloy and extending winfield are not mutually exclusive at all.......there were many ways to create enough cap room to resign winfield AFTER signing milloy........TD decided not to.........

 

However, as best as I can tell the specific market for JJ amounts to SF who has the cap room and the need though it is unclear i they have the owner commitment and Sea, St. L or Philly if they lose Jones, Pace or Thomas.

 

teams that MAY be interested, in no particular order:

 

1) SEA -- depends what happens with jones and their other free agents

2) SF -- plenty of room under cap now and defanite need

3) PHI -- if thomas walks they will need a starter

4) CLE -- have had major needs on the OL for years

5) WAS -- if samuels goes they could make a play

6) NYG -- they want to sign a new LT and shift petitgout to RT

7) NYJ -- might look to sign jenings and move him to RT

8) MIA -- saban can blow up the team and free up alot of cap space

9) JAX -- a lot of cap room

10) ATL -- falcons have room (despite the rumours), just look at vick's 05 cap number

 

What good young players are you talking about besides AW and JJ?

 

those are the only two guys i mentioned and that is all i was talking about.........AW shouldn't have left, and JJ shouldn't have to either.......you shouldn't lose any good, young talented players when your cap situation is as healthy as the bills is........

 

You'd have a point supported by the facts if other teams had fewer starters or key players as FAs, but since other teams would have to have fewer than 2 starters as FAs its hard to show a huge difference with the rest of the league to the Bills disadvantage.

 

and like i said, doesn't matter what team i'm a fan of, if we let a good young player get away WHEN we have a healthy cap, i'm calling out the GM.......there is no excuse for it.......