Kelly the Dog Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) From a FloridaGatorsBillsFan, who bothered to look at the tape and explain what actually happened in the Lions game, these were all of EJ's throws. 1st & 10: I-formation with Watkins at the bottom and Woods up top. Manuel with a 5 step drop and delivers a perfect throw to Woods for 16 yards. Good pass protection from everyone. 2nd & 13: I formation again with Watkins at the bottom, Woods int he slot and Gragg lined up inside next to Henderson. Detroit rushes only four. It's a slow developing play as Watkins and Woods are running 15+ yard routes. Gragg runs a 5 yard out but is covered immediately. By the time Woods and Watkins are coming out of their breaks Manuel is getting sacked. Glenn simply gets beat. His guy comes with a bull rush at first and then slides inside and sacks Manuel. Everyone else had very good pass protection. 3rd & 14 Shotgun with Jackson next to Manuel, Williams at the bottom, Woods in the slot, Gragg lined up next to Glenn and Watkins up top. It's 3rd and long so everyone is running deep and the defense again drops 7 into coverage. By the time Manuel releases the ball, there isn't a LB or CB within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. Nobody accounts for Jackson out of the backfield. Manuel hits him for a dump off and with good effort and a good block from Woods, Jackson pits up 18. 1st & 10 I-formation with Spiller in the backfield, Woods at the bottom, Gragg next to Glenn, Watkins up at the top. Bills run playaction bootleg and Manuel rolls out towards the Lions bench. Gragg should be the first read coming across the middle but the LB's don't bite on the play action hard enough. The MLB has Gragg covered immediately. Watkins runs a 15 yard hitch and is open initially as his guy slips but Manuel throws it away. Gragg and Wakins end up in the same spot. Typically receivers aren't supposed to be in the same spot at the end of a route. Decent blocking up front. Would like to see Summers stay on his guy longer. 3rd & 10 Bills are in shotgun with Jackson next to Manuel, Watkins at the bottom, Woods up top in the slot, and Williams up top out wide. This is partially a coverage sack and another blown block by Glenn. Can't see what Watkins runs but he has a safety shaded to his side, Woods runs a 8 yard slant but his guy undercuts his route and has him covered. Williams runs a half hearted 12 yard hitch and Jackson is covered in the backfield. If he goes to Woods I think his guy picks it off. Detroit finally brings a blitz with the LB to Glenn/Richardson's side and also run a stunt with the DT and RDE. The RDE swings inside, the LB comes inside and the DT comes outside. Glenn doesn't see him quick enough and he comes unblocked for the sack. Jackson seems confused as to who to block as well. Miscommunication up front. 2nd & 6 Bills are in shotgun with Brown next to Manuel, Watkins up top and the Bills are in a trips set at the bottom with Gragg, Woods and Williams. Watkins run a 3 yard slant. The ball is thrown to far in front of him and the LB is standing there waiting. To me, this is a poorly designed play and a bad read by Manuel. You have to do something to draw the LB's in so that the slant is there. When a LB reads pass his job is to drop back into coverage. At no point does the offense do anything to bring him forward or anything. Manuel should have never it throw it to that side. All three of Gragg, Woods and Williams were open at the bottom. I get the feeling Manuel is trying to force the ball to Watkins. Solid pass protection from everyone upfront. 3rd & 6 Bills in shotgun with Jackson next to Manuel, Williams on the bottom, Woods in the slot, Gragg next to Glenn and Goodwin up top. This is a designed play for the running back to come out of the backfield and get the first down. Jackson has no blocking responsibility. He comes out of the backfield around Henderson, does an out route for what would have been a first down but drops it. Not a typical play from Fred. Gragg was open as well for a first. Henderson gets beat to easy on play. If Manuel holds on to the ball for a second longer its a sack. Everyone else did good. 1st & 10 Shotgun with Brown in the backfield, Williams at the bottom with Gragg behind Glenn, Woods in the slot and Goodwin up top. It's a designed bootleg where Gragg is the first option coming across the middle but LB picks him up. Woods runs a 12 yard comeback and the DB is draped all over his back. Ball bounces around and back into Woods hands for a good gain. Would have been pass interference and rightfully so. Solid protection from everyone up front. 1st & 10 Shotgun with Brown next to Manuel, Williams at the bottom, Woods in the slot, Gragg next to Glenn and Goodwin up to. Goodwin runs a 8 yard hitch and the DB literally grabs his shoulder pads and nearly pulls him down. Not a ticky tac illegal contact call this time. This is a PI call 20 years ago. Richardson gets beat inside to easy on this play. Would have been an easy sack if ball is held onto a second longer. 3rd & 10 Bills in shotgun with Summers and Jackson nexto Manuel. Goodwin at the bottom, Woods in the slot with Williams up top. Roods runs a crossing route across the field and either doesn't pickup the ball quick enough or just makes a bad play. From the sideline angle it originally looked like a bad throw but from the end zone it was a very catchable ball. If Woods gets two hands up its a catch for a first down. Ball may not have hit him in the numbers but we've all seen Woods catch much harder throws. Good protection from everyone up front. Summary: The two things I've noticed in preseason for the Bills offense: When Watkins is on the field, Manuel is trying to force him the ball and defenses are dropping 6-7 into coverage almost every play. I don't know if it's just because its preseason and defenses aren't doing much or if they feel this is how you stop the Bills offense but nobody brought much blitz wise against the Bills. I have a feeling this is what we'll see against the Bears. I think they want to try and stop the run and then make Manuel beat them with dropping 7 into coverage. The worst throw of the night for Manuel was to Watkins on the slant route. He's trying to get it into Watkins hands to much. Some dropped balls, some pass interference calls and some missed blocks. Thank God preseason is over. Edited September 1, 2014 by Kelly the Dog
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Yeah the Carolina game so many love bringing up where he got a gift at end otherwise would hv turned ball over for third consecutive drive. Opinions are based on the overall product. Is it "when it mattered," which I took to mean crunch time in games, or "the overall product"? Again, Tom Brady, tuck rule, gift, no? Bounces happen to, for, and against every team. You still have to win at the end of the day for them to matter.
RogerNapalm Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 EJ is going to be awesome.and, going the entire pre season first half without a TD is pure genius coaching. legendary execution and smokescreens. very few teams have the sack to to be so cunning in their pre season camp and play. marrone has the league, fans, press, everyone so confused, that this could be a year for the ages. Especially with new ownership coming in. This is the funniest post I have ever seen.
jumbalaya Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 You were more disappointed in Palmer than EJ???? Palmer had 6 days and no chance, EJ had 6 months of prep and sucked.
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 EJs been a disappointment since we drafted him. What should the media types be saying?
Kellyto83TD Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Just read somewhere that EJ Manuel was the most disappointing player in the NFL this preseason. Lefty Esaison doesn't think EJ can cut it. People are trashing him right and left. Tired of it. It will be nice to see him play with a game plan and in a real football game. He did not look very good in preseason, but compared to the effort we saw from our backups and especially Palmer, he looked much more prepared. I am hoping that they come out like gangbusters this weekend. Opening day is my 60th birthday. I would like to be happy all day that day. I am emotionally prepared for another disappointment, though. It's sad to be accustomed to that, but it's part of being a Bills fan. Dealing with disappointment is a way of life. Optimistic, but realistic. This could be a breakout season, or it could be one of those where people fall down on routes, fumble in overtime, drop passes in the end zone, throw 101 yard picks from the opponent's 1 yard line, blow 11 point leads in the last two minutes on MNF. Back to EJ. Tell the media to kiss your ass, EJ and have a great season. 1) they are RIGHT 2) if he didnt flat out SUCK they wouldnt' be bashing him
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 You were more disappointed in Palmer than EJ???? Palmer had 6 days and no chance, EJ had 6 months of prep and sucked. That one confused me too. I wasn't upset with Palmer. He got thrown into a crappy Lienart situation. I like Whaley a lot but he's made some confusing moves at the QB position.
Dibs Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 From a FloridaGatorsBillsFan, who bothered to look at the tape and explain what actually happened in the Lions game, these were all of EJ's throws. I don't think that the people who strongly complain about EJ's performance want to read an analytical breakdown of the game. They saw it all with their own eyes and saw EJ not performing......why bother reading about it? Good breakdown btw......nice find.
The Wiz Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 It is easy to criticize the bashers of EJ Manuel. The core problem is that EJ Manuel has played poorly. Don't criticize the messengers. Solution: EJ Manuel starts playing like an NFL QB by producing results on the field. Result: EJ plays well and the bashing will go away! It's a miracle! The media are bandwagon jumpers. Play well and they jump on, play badly and they jump off. No it won't. You know it as well as I do that there are people here on a crusade to watch him crash and burn, even if he lead them to a super bowl win.
Fadingpain Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 I remember a famous quote by Bill Parcells regarding stats. I wonder if you remember that. Do you ? If so, type that quote. I'll respond. Otherwise I wont. You are what your record says you are. And EJ's record is mediocre; up and down; inconsistent. He is who he is and what the stats say he is. Eventually everyone will catch on to that reality.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 You are what your record says you are. And EJ's record is mediocre; up and down; inconsistent. He is who he is and what the stats say he is. Eventually everyone will catch on to that reality. You're right. Rookie QB's never get better with experience.
Fadingpain Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 You're right. Rookie QB's never get better with experience. Of course they do. But here's what you (apparently) and the rest of the EJ supporters don't get: the pessimism regarding EJ is not about him getting better with age or experience or repetitions. It's about his baseline inability to perform at the NFL level. Will he marginally improve as time goes on? Probably. Will he ever be worth 2 #&%*@ at the NFL level? No. Some can see that. I guess you can't. That's OK. You'll see it soon enough.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Of course they do. But here's what you (apparently) and the rest of the EJ supporters don't get: the pessimism regarding EJ is not about him getting better with age or experience or repetitions. It's about his baseline inability to perform at the NFL level. Will he marginally improve as time goes on? Probably. Will he ever be worth 2 #&%*@ at the NFL level? No. Some can see that. I guess you can't. That's OK. You'll see it soon enough. You (and others) don't see any improvement because of preconceived ideas about EJ that blind you to the possibility. People like you just want to yell and scream that he sucks. Have at it. Edited September 1, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
Dean Cain Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 10 games in and people are getting antsy waiting for the 2nd coming of Kelly. That's okay for us to feel that way. The only thing EJ needs to do is win football games. Win more than you lose and the criticism will wane. Go 6-10 or worse and prepare for a whole lot more I told you soers to be beating their keyboards proudly.
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 10 games in and people are getting antsy waiting for the 2nd coming of Kelly. That's okay for us to feel that way. The only thing EJ needs to do is win football games. Win more than you lose and the criticism will wane. Go 6-10 or worse and prepare for a whole lot more I told you soers to be beating their keyboards proudly. What you say here is true. But what drives the "I told you soers" is knee jerk defenses of any EJ performance no matter how bad it is. If people would just be objective and accept that 2 for 7 with 3 tipped passes is a bad performance for example, there would be a lot less back and forth.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) What you say here is true. But what drives the "I told you soers" is knee jerk defenses of any EJ performance no matter how bad it is. If people would just be objective and accept that 2 for 7 with 3 tipped passes is a bad performance for example, there would be a lot less back and forth. So when Marrone says the batted down passes by the D Line are on the offensive line, he's covering for EJ? Not to mention the perfectly thrown ball by EJ to the end zone that Mike Williams dropped. Edited September 1, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
SlamnSam Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Are you serious? Its not bashing at all. The guy flat out sucks, period dot. You cannot defend him. He will be bagging groceries soon.
Fadingpain Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) So when Marrone says the batted down passes by the D Line are on the offensive line, he's covering for EJ? Not to mention the perfectly thrown ball by EJ to the end zone that Mike Williams dropped. If it makes you feel better to fabricate a fantasy land in which EJ is a great QB, go for it! Who am I to tell you what to believe, or how to feel? This is the primary concept upon which all religion is based for the most part. I live in "reality land" and I don't have that ability to suspend reality for what I want to believe. It's cool bro! As I have now said umpteen times in the 8 trillion EJ threads on this website, it doesn't matter! We don't have to solve this dilemma anytime soon! It's not about me convincing you I am right, or vice versa. EJ is the man around here and he is going to get his chance to shine, guaranteed. The results will be painfully obvious for all to see soon enough. Hang in there. Let's follow up with this conversation after week 10 or so. And then after the end of the season. Edited September 1, 2014 by Stopthepain
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Are you serious? Its not bashing at all. The guy flat out sucks, period dot. You cannot defend him. He will be bagging groceries soon. As a public service, please provide a detailed breakdown of your expert opinion that brings you to this conclusion. Thank You in advance for your service to TSW. If it makes you feel better to fabricate a fantasy land in which EJ is a great QB, go for it! Who am I to tell you what to believe, or how to feel? This is the primary concept upon which all religion is based for the most part. I live in "reality land" and I don't have that ability to suspend reality for what I want to believe. It's cool bro! As I have now said umpteen times in the 8 trillion EJ threads on this website, it doesn't matter! We don't have to solve this dilemma anytime soon! It's not about m convincing you I am right, or vice versa. EJ is the man around here and he is going to get his chance to shine, guaranteed. The results will be painfully obvious for all to see soon enough. Hang in there. Let's follow up with this conversation after week 10 or so. And then after the end of the season. You actually live in low information fan land where you don't have to back up your assertions with any intelligible facts to back up your impossible to prove, premature conclusions.
Fadingpain Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 As a public service, please provide a detailed breakdown of your expert opinion that brings you to this conclusion. Thank You in advance for your service to TSW. You actually live in low information fan land where you don't have to back up your assertions with any intelligible facts to back up your impossible to prove, premature conclusions. Well alrighty then. I see this conversation isn't going to go very far. Have a good night sir!
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