jahnyc Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Shouldn't we assume that Nix was responsible for most of the players in recent drafts rather than Whaley who was in charge only this year? I think that Whaley had significant input last year, including with the Manuel pick, but he should be judged on picks made this year and in the future (if he is retained by the new owner). I understand that it is way early, but I am not impressed with this year's draft (excluding Watkins).
sjjr Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Between 2002-2010 the Bills missed a lot in the draft. Since then, they've been solid and have a team that is very talented but young. EJ is exactly that and there will be ups and downs, but have to see this thing through. If this time doesn't win 8 or 9 games this season, it won't be because of talent.
Max997 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Coaches come and go...but is the real problem with our scouts and talent office? Let me list some recent examples...I mean we pick a 3rd round QB in the 1st round...trade away 2 1st round picks for a receiver who's hurt..how about letting a solid backup like L. Cohen go... Discus. What does Sammy getting hurt in the preseason have to do with how good the scouts are at evaluating talent? It's easy to name the misses but how about the hits? Cordy Glenn, Kiko, Jairius Byrd, Aaron Williams, all second round picks. Edited August 30, 2014 by Max997
The Bunk Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 The Bills have as many good players as NE does. We don't have the most crucial position figured out. It's frustrating.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Coaches come and go...but is the real problem with our scouts and talent office? Let me list some recent examples...I mean we pick a 3rd round QB in the 1st round...trade away 2 1st round picks for a receiver who's hurt..how about letting a solid backup like L. Cohen go... Discus. This was the problem until recently. Since adding youth to the front office and putting some of the old guard to pasture the talent level of the team is remarkable. They shipped off a #1 wr who can't crack the third spot on a good teams roster.... Traded sheppard for a sack machine. Picked up a near DROY with a second round pick along with woods. Glenn's been a solid LT.... Gilmore and manual still have loads of potential. As for free agents, Mario, Lawson, spikes, Williams, Graham, carpenter, Dickson, Bryce brown... They've done better than I can ever remember turning the roster over and getting talented.
Fingon Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 John McCargo (in trade for a 2nd and 3rd), Ashton Youboty, Trent Edwards, James Hardy, Aaron Maybin, Torrell Troup, Alex Carrington, and Kelvin Sheppard. And those are the guys picked while Tom Modrak (who amazingly served under Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, and Nix) was college scouting director. That's 8 1st-3rd round picks that busted in 6 drafts. Every team makes mistakes in evaluating talent, but few have dropped to the depths Buffalo has. Just hitting on a 1st or 2nd every now and then isn't enough. Small market teams need to win the draft and the Bills haven't/aren't. Can you please actually use a relevant argument? Listing off Marv Levy players to criticize our current GM isn't logical. Also, Buddy Nix turned Kelvin Sheppard into Jerry Hughes. Your analysis is meaningless since you just listed off busts without even recognizing the hits. I'm sure if you took the Bills last five drafts they would be above average in bust/not-bust ratio. Only Bills fans expect their team to hit on every draft pick, even when the best evaluators get it right less than 50% of the time.
bananathumb Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Coaching, not drafting, is the real issue in the NFL.
Mr_Blizzard Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Coaches come and go...but is the real problem with our scouts and talent office? Let me list some recent examples...I mean we pick a 3rd round QB in the 1st round...trade away 2 1st round picks for a receiver who's hurt..how about letting a solid backup like L. Cohen go... Discus. I've been off the board for months thanks to a job that consumes my life. But honestly, other than the names changing, the stories sound the same. It's been over a decade since we had a legit starting QB (Bledsoe); he gave us one decent year and the wheels came off. My feelings for the team are like having a wife that drives you crazy. You don't want to divorce her because you love her, but at times all you can do is walk around shaking your head while muttering "Oy Vey"
billsfan1959 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) John McCargo (in trade for a 2nd and 3rd), Ashton Youboty, Trent Edwards, James Hardy, Aaron Maybin, Torrell Troup, Alex Carrington, and Kelvin Sheppard. And those are the guys picked while Tom Modrak (who amazingly served under Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, and Nix) was college scouting director. That's 8 1st-3rd round picks that busted in 6 drafts. Every team makes mistakes in evaluating talent, but few have dropped to the depths Buffalo has. Just hitting on a 1st or 2nd every now and then isn't enough. Small market teams need to win the draft and the Bills haven't/aren't. You would be an absolutely superb GM for any team in a league that has the ability to go back in time and re-draft players. Hindsight is so much more difficult than predicting… Edited August 30, 2014 by billsfan1959
PromoTheRobot Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Life sucks when you focus on the negative. How would you feel if your boss evaluated you only by what you did wrong?
billsfan1959 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 This was the problem until recently. Since adding youth to the front office and putting some of the old guard to pasture the talent level of the team is remarkable. They shipped off a #1 wr who can't crack the third spot on a good teams roster.... Traded sheppard for a sack machine. Picked up a near DROY with a second round pick along with woods. Glenn's been a solid LT.... Gilmore and manual still have loads of potential. As for free agents, Mario, Lawson, spikes, Williams, Graham, carpenter, Dickson, Bryce brown... They've done better than I can ever remember turning the roster over and getting talented. Given the current climate of this board… This is absolute heresy...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 You would be an absolutely superb GM for any team in a league that has the ability to go back in time and re-draft players. Hindsight is so much more difficult than predicting… Is like to throw my hat into this ring too. I'm pretty sure I'd dominate as GM with time machine. Right now for example I'd have Tom Brady backed up by Russell Wilson. Tom would have replaced Kurt Warner after his retirement. I mean come on Whaley.... This stuff is obvious!
KRT88 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Yes because Scouting is an exact science. Please, there have been hundreds of examples of guys with tons of talent and for some reason busted. The real problem for the past 14 years has been the QB. EJ has all the talent in the world and the season rests firmly on his shoulders. If he is decent we have a chance, if he is bad we have no shot and if he is somehow good we will contend. It's that simple. Strange how most of the best teams in the league over the past 20+ years almost always have really good QB.
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Dick Jauron would have been a great coach if only someone else made in game decisions like whether to go for it or punt. Otherwise I felt he was excellent. Restating that: if Jauron had allowed someone else to coach, he'd have been a great coach. Hmm. I guess I can't totally disagree with that.
transient Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 You mean the same guy who it took more than a year to get a backup QB? No kidding. How he could not have foreseen the career ending injury of Kolb or the absolute implosion of Lewis is inexcusable. And then to replace Lewis with a former starting QB with a 0.500 W/L record on short notice... time to get out the pitchforks and light the torches.
3putt Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 John McCargo (in trade for a 2nd and 3rd), Ashton Youboty, Trent Edwards, James Hardy, Aaron Maybin, Torrell Troup, Alex Carrington, and Kelvin Sheppard. And those are the guys picked while Tom Modrak (who amazingly served under Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, and Nix) was college scouting director. That's 8 1st-3rd round picks that busted in 6 drafts. Every team makes mistakes in evaluating talent, but few have dropped to the depths Buffalo has. Just hitting on a 1st or 2nd every now and then isn't enough. Small market teams need to win the draft and the Bills haven't/aren't. anything after the top 3 rounds is a crapshoot. Often these are picks for depth or need. Expecting impact players is a bit optimistic, but gladly accepted. Jemarcus Russel should cause concern. Youboty not so much.
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Getting a first round talent in the 7th, a first round lb in the second, trading a 3rd rounder for a first round de....talent is abundant and the cupboards are full. Huh? Has nothing to do with Whaley in 2014. Nice try. Whaley was hired before the 2010 draft as Asst GM/Director of Pro Personnel, so he was obviously involved in the evaluation and drafting of Troup, Carrington, Easley, Sheppard, TJ Graham, Sheppard...hey, I'll throw Gilmore in there too (taking a DB in the top 10 on a team with zero offense--nice move).
JM57 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Huh? Nice try. Whaley was hired before the 2010 draft as Asst GM/Director of Pro Personnel, so he was obviously involved in the evaluation and drafting of Troup, Carrington, Easley, Sheppard, TJ Graham, Sheppard...hey, I'll throw Gilmore in there too (taking a DB in the top 10 on a team with zero offense--nice move). Today I learned that contrary to what the job title would lead you to believe, that the main responsibility of a "Director of Pro Personnel" is to scout college players, not to scout you know...Pro Personnel. THE MORE YOU KNOW!
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Huh? Nice try. Whaley was hired before the 2010 draft as Asst GM/Director of Pro Personnel, so he was obviously involved in the evaluation and drafting of Troup, Carrington, Easley, Sheppard, TJ Graham, Sheppard...hey, I'll throw Gilmore in there too (taking a DB in the top 10 on a team with zero offense--nice move). Director of Pro Personnel, not the GM with the power to make final decisions on draft day. Nice try by you. Carry on for the sake of arguing what you cannot possibly prove. I gave my opinion, but please continue the quest to prove your opinion is factual. Bye now! Edited August 30, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
Dragonborn10 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 The real problem died a few months ago... Go ahead and say I am an ass but the problem started at the top.
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