starrymessenger Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 It's near verbatim what he said yesterday. Ok Well if he did say that he shouldn't of. Shame on him if he wished injury on any player. Having said that how many NFL teams would be better off if their starter went down? Hypothetically speaking of course.
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Ok Well if he did say that he shouldn't of. Shame on him if he wished injury on any player. Having said that how many NFL teams would be better off if their starter went down? Hypothetically speaking of course. Don't know. Don't care to hypothesize on it either. If you think the coaches can't pick the best qb for the teams future- i have bigger worries than rooting for their guy to get hurt. There's no place that's appropriate to do. Edited August 30, 2014 by NoSaint
billykaykay Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Dude, he's like 31 and he's pretty dang good. He's efficient. He will be our starter at some point this year. I guarantee it. I agree. Unless EJ starts lighting it up, Orton will be starting by week 4 or so. Orton is no star, but he at least can light it up occasionally & win games by himself. He is a journeyman, but a good journeyman. AND he can actually throw passes over 10 yards. Good move for once, but why not do this instead of the waste of time that was bringing in Palmer? No absolute need to bring in Ponder or Pryor to replace Tuel but it would be nice. They brought in Palmer to play the last meaningless game. Someone had to play QB.
Rob's House Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 I just feel like ever since he got involved in WWE that his heart just isn't in it.
billykaykay Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Not one to pat myself on the back, I will leave it to others. His completion percentage begs to differ. It's easy to get a high completion % when you are dinking & dunking. K.O. likes to throw deep. An average QB to be sure, but for now, he is at least reliable.
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Kyle Orton is just ONE example of how dumb the WGR argument (bulldog & Jeremy) is that the sammy watkins trade costing us next years #1 means we cannot possibly obtain a QB to play if EJ were to get hurt or fail... Next season likely Rams QB Sam Bradford hits the market too - being another example QBs quality play are a result of many variables (its not fantasy football) - veteran QBs who had their play diminish under their salary level because they hit a team with a poor coach or poor Oline or poor team that wants to do a rebuild etccc can rebound to a new team - look at Kurt Warner and his NY Giants situation - Breet Favre provided Vikes ok play And here is the kicker - the fact that Sammy Watkins is on our roster helps attract any of these freed up veteran QBs to sign with Buffalo
Phil Hansen Forever Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 FLUTIE, FLUTIE! and that doesn't work, there is always TEBOW!
billykaykay Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Personally, my issue with EJ has never been with what I have seen but rather with what his issues are. I don't ever remember a QB that became more accurate or learned to see the field faster. If EJ was not understanding the playbook or making poor reads I may agree with you. You can learn where to throw based on different defensive formations and/or tendencies. You can't learn to hit guys in stride. I mentioned this in a previous post. He can hit a WR on a square in but not in stride. It is a very big negative in his game.
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Accuracy cannot be improved via practice with WRs? Or getting more and more used to the speed of the NFL game? Why even practice then? Drew Brees often practices at targets - you must consider that a waste of time? Edited August 30, 2014 by jahbonas
Fadingpain Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 One way or the other, Orton will get a window of opportunity to show us what he has in regular season gameplay. It might even be just for a series or 2 when EJ gets a little dinged up but returns to the game. EJ might be more seriously injured and miss the 4th quarter let's say, but then be OK for next week's game. Orton will get his shot. If he actually looks good, it will be very interesting to see just how willing the GM and coach are to go down with the ship. They have hitched their fortunes to EJ's success. Will they be willing to jump ship and go with Orton if he looks like the better option? In my opinion, this will prove to be the decisive issue with the team in the upcoming season. I question if Whaley and Marrone have the balls to pull the plug on EJ at a meaningfully early point in the season.
KOKBILLS Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Incorrect. He has been written off because of what we saw last preseason, all of the season that he did play AND the entire offesason / Preseason this year. The kid doesn't look on the field any better than he did last year coming out of FSU And that is a HUGE concern. Bottom line Orton even at this stage is an upgrade over EJ. I hope we don't have to see him until about week 3-4 though so he can get some time under his belt with this system. Orton imho should have been brought in the minute he was done in Dallas and allowed to compete with EJ. See here's the thing about campaigning...Often times the facts are ignored and general conclusions are reached that only forward the campaign, and do nothing to advance an intelligent conversation on a topic... The fact is EJ Manuel, as a Rookie QB in the NFL...which I think we can all agree is just about the toughest position to be a rookie at in the entirety of professional sports...Anyway...EJ had a QB rating of 86.7 or better in half his starts last year...And that does not include the Cleveland game where it was obvious he was coming on before he got injured... So...This assumption that EJ has been written off by anyone other than his most harsh critics is a bit ridiculous...Especially when you say as a matter of fact that EJ has been written off based on what we saw "all last season..." The same season he had those 5-6 decent games in 10 starts...Does he have to get more consistent and accurate?...Yes he does...Is anything set in stone right now? Definitely not...But to assume EJ has been written off just because you do';t like the kid and have drawn your own conclusions is just mind-numbing...It's not based in fact whatsoever...And it still does not mean EJ will be a decent starting QB in this league long term...It does mean the evidence is inconclusive at best at this time...So maybe this campaign is better suited to the off season of 2015? Maybe?
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 One way or the other, Orton will get a window of opportunity to show us what he has in regular season gameplay. It might even be just for a series or 2 when EJ gets a little dinged up but returns to the game. EJ might be more seriously injured and miss the 4th quarter let's say, but then be OK for next week's game. Orton will get his shot. If he actually looks good, it will be very interesting to see just how willing the GM and coach are to go down with the ship. They have hitched their fortunes to EJ's success. Will they be willing to jump ship and go with Orton if he looks like the better option? In my opinion, this will prove to be the decisive issue with the team in the upcoming season. I question if Whaley and Marrone have the balls to pull the plug on EJ at a meaningfully early point in the season. That of course assumes ej tanks and KO looks good before it can be the big decision.
Jamie Mueller Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Did anyone watch Orton last season and, if so, have a critique of his play for Dallas? I'll try to watch NFL Game Rewind when I have time this week. This from Sports Forecaster (an objective opinion I assume)... Assets - A hard worker and good leader. Reads defenses well. Brings size, field vision, and arm strength to the NFL pocket. Can zip spirals all over the field and throws a solid deep ball. Has some mobility and can get out of trouble. Flaws - Doesn't always set properly, winds up his delivery and will sometimes throw off-balance (leading to the odd bout of inaccuracy). Took a while to find his way in the NFL. Career Potential - Inconsistent but above-average quarterback.
billsfan1959 Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 That would be a pretty good QB lineup actually. Depends on what you mean by controversy. Media and fans, perhaps. But what's important are coaches and the team. I think this is EJ's team and job to lose. I doubt they will be quick on the trigger here. Bailing on a 1st round pick with less than one year experience is a pretty stupid move, especially when you beefed up the WR corp and (supposedly) the OL. Neither QB will be ready to play for a few weeks. If EJ plays at an acceptable level, and shows improvement, the Bills have now found some legit depth. Let's just hope they don't need it too soon. You are absolutely right. This is EJ's team and they will give him every opportunity and a reasonable amount of time to succeed. As it should be.
Fadingpain Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 That of course assumes ej tanks and KO looks good before it can be the big decision. Yes, of course. If EJ looks great, my comments are moot. If EJ is mediocre but Orton is too, my comments are equally moot. I based my arguments on the stated assumptions b/c those are my assumptions and expectations. EJ is who he is and will always be frustratingly average and inconsistent. He'll do some nice things, a great thing now and again, then a lot of bad things, and some really awful things. That's not what we are looking for at the QB position with the Bills, is it? Is Orton going to be meaningfully better? Who the hell knows.
NoSaint Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Yes, of course. If EJ looks great, my comments are moot. If EJ is mediocre but Orton is too, my comments are equally moot. I based my arguments on the stated assumptions b/c those are my assumptions and expectations. EJ is who he is and will always be frustratingly average and inconsistent. He'll do some nice things, a great thing now and again, then a lot of bad things, and some really awful things. That's not what we are looking for at the QB position with the Bills, is it? Is Orton going to be meaningfully better? Who the hell knows. So ej is what he is already, and orton is our wildcard?
26TrapDraw Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Biggest problem I see is Hackett and Downing have been coddling EJ so much that when he sucks and it's often. He believes he did a good job (see his post game after Detroit) bring in Orton who's proven he can make reads get the ball out on time and actually be accurate past 10 yds. This offense has tons of weapons and only needs a decent manager to be successful and EJ can't even handle that. I blame the coaches they have done a piss poor job being critical of EJ when he's played poorly. If they spent less time blowing sunshine up his ass and more time getting in his face about sucking he might be better off right now
Fadingpain Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 So ej is what he is already, and orton is our wildcard? Yes, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Not sure what Orton has left in the tank at this point in time while learning a new offense and contemplating retirement from the NFL. EJ will develop in certain ways, but he has a whole lot of fatal flaws that can't be overcome, as I've stated time and again on other EJ threads. Don't take my word for it. Read what the Seminole Faithful say about him, having watched him more closely than you for 2 full seasons at a much lower/easier football level.
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Biggest problem I see is Hackett and Downing have been coddling EJ so much that when he sucks and it's often. He believes he did a good job (see his post game after Detroit) bring in Orton who's proven he can make reads get the ball out on time and actually be accurate past 10 yds. This offense has tons of weapons and only needs a decent manager to be successful and EJ can't even handle that. I blame the coaches they have done a piss poor job being critical of EJ when he's played poorly. If they spent less time blowing sunshine up his ass and more time getting in his face about sucking he might be better off right now Amazing how you flat out GUESS how the coaches treat EJ and then you blast them for it - just great !! By the way - almost every coach in the league pump up their QBs - its a game of confidence and they want their qbs as confident as possible...
Fadingpain Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 Amazing how you flat out GUESS how the coaches treat EJ and then you blast them for it - just great !! By the way - almost every coach in the league pump up their QBs - its a game of confidence and they want their qbs as confident as possible... EJ's problems are not about how much sunshine has been blown up his ass or what the coaching staff has done with him. If he was a good QB no one would be discussing these types of tangental issues. To reiterate, EJ's problems can't be fixed. He doesn't see the field well; he processes information very slowly on a football field and he mentally can't keep up with the speed of the NFL game. His football IQ is below room temperature. He can't lead a running receiver. He has big time accuracy and consistency issues. And worst of all, he is timid and scared on a football field, in my opinion. He looks like a fish out of water. he is happy to get off the field. The great ones are the precise opposite. They want to be down by 4 points with 42 seconds left in the Superbowl...and the ball in their hands. They want to get out there and put the ball in the end zone for the big win. In my opinion, you can sense EJ being exactly, 180 degrees, the opposite sort of guy.
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