RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 My biggest ray of hope with regard to EJ originates with the fact that you don't like him. Hi-Fives.
Lurker Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 This is absolutely the problem. All pre-season its been EJ, EJ, EJ.... we are giving him every tool to succeed, we are giving him this, that, whatever. What the coaches and staff have not done is give him competition. What simplistic Bunkum. Repetition, followed by more repetition, followed by more repetition is the best learning tool...not some pop psychobabble about 'lighting a fire' or 'competing' for a job. The 'job' is his. He has to get better at it. He's not going to do that if he's not playing, or surrounded by 10 other guys who aren't doing their job at a high level. The lack of a viable backup is a whole different issue...and one that's squarely on Whaley's shoulders. But that backup, whoever it is they pick up between now and next week, is not competition--they're 'insurance.'
klos63 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 There has been a lot of negative attention given (and rightfully so) to the play of the backup QBs while the REAL problem with the poor performance on Offense (EJ) continues to be coddled. Believe me, I want EJ to succeed so badly, because everything with this team rests with him. But he needs a serious fire lit under his ass. I see a kid who thinks the job is his no matter what. No pressure to improve his play, no accountability. It seems as though everyone is afraid to hurt his feelings, or his ego. If he is this sensitive the Bills really blew it when they chose him as the franchise QB. He plays poorly (the norm) and stands up in post game press conferences and says he thinks he played well, "Just a few drops". What?!! Let's be honest, if EJ was playing half way decent, we all could care less about the backups. But everyone is worried with the backups because it just reminds us all (including Marone) that we have no alternative to EJ if he continues to stink up the place with his indecision and off the mark passes. This is such a naive comment. Just because there is not an immediate threat to his job, don't think there is no accountability or pressure. The Bills invested a 1st round pick in Manuel, therefore it makes sense to give him every opportunity to succeed, which includes not having the week to week pressure of losing his job, but don't be misled into thinking he is being coddled. If he craps out this year, there will be competition for his job next year. But it makes perfect sense to give him all opportunities to succeed. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 This is such a naive comment. Just because there is not an immediate threat to his job, don't think there is no accountability or pressure. The Bills invested a 1st round pick in Manuel, therefore it makes sense to give him every opportunity to succeed, which includes not having the week to week pressure of losing his job, but don't be misled into thinking he is being coddled. If he craps out this year, there will be competition for his job next year. But it makes perfect sense to give him all opportunities to succeed. This shouldn't be hard to understand. Good post.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 What simplistic Bunkum. Repetition, followed by more repetition, followed by more repetition is the best learning tool...not some pop psychobabble about 'lighting a fire' or 'competing' for a job. The 'job' is his. He has to get better at it. He's not going to do that if he's not playing, or surrounded by 10 other guys who aren't doing their job at a high level. The lack of a viable backup is a whole different issue...and one that's squarely on Whaley's shoulders. But that backup, whoever it is they pick up between now and next week, is not competition--they're 'insurance.' This is also a good post. People can say whatever they want about Kelly, but one reason he arrived fully formed in the NFL -- even if his completion stats are closer to EJ's in year one than his best -- is that he got a lot of extra reps before his time in the NFL. Those USFL years didn't make or break him, but they did help shape him. Practice and experience matter.
KD in CA Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 If that is the case he is done already. Not necessarily, it just means that other motivational techniques might need to be employed to get the best out of this particular player. 'Light a fire under their ass' doesn't work on everyone.
bills_believer Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 I hope we can find a new owner worth a damn that puts winning first. **** can everyone from Brandon on down to the !@#$ing waterboy. **** can most of the current players as well. This whole thing has needed to be completely gutted for a long time now. I think the GM and HC will be gone if they don't make the playoffs. They sealed their fate when they traded off next year's first round draft choice, but other than QB this is a pretty good team and even national analysts will say that.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Not necessarily, it just means that other motivational techniques might need to be employed to get the best out of this particular player. 'Light a fire under their ass' doesn't work on everyone. A thoughtful parent who has never seen a down of NFL football probably has more insight on coaching techniques than most of the armchair HCs on the board.
GG Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 This is such a naive comment. Just because there is not an immediate threat to his job, don't think there is no accountability or pressure. The Bills invested a 1st round pick in Manuel, therefore it makes sense to give him every opportunity to succeed, which includes not having the week to week pressure of losing his job, but don't be misled into thinking he is being coddled. If he craps out this year, there will be competition for his job next year. But it makes perfect sense to give him all opportunities to succeed. This shouldn't be hard to understand. That would be ok if the GM didn't handicap himself given the increasing probability that EJ flops again this year.
BillsFan17 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 1) the online has yet to be the same week in and week out with two late round rookies asked to learn both then left and right side of the line. 2) Watkins has hardly been in and Williams hasn't been in many series. 3) The play book isn't even remotely open. I'm not making excuses but people are acting like we are in mid season form
bills_believer Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) EJ simply does not seem ready and may never be ready. The Bills coaches have not messed him up because these are the same concerns that made scouts think he was a raw prospect. Having said that I have lost all confidence in the Bills HC and OC. I already was critical of them overestimating what they had in Tuel and Lewis, but then to play Palmer most of the game when he had to barely know the playbook was foolish. In the short term the only back up that is going to know the playbook and have even a reasonable chance to do well is Jeff Tuel. Marrone just seems to continue to badly mishandle this QB situation. Edited August 29, 2014 by bills_believer
BillsBytheBay Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 I don't care if they light fires or pat his back and give him ice cream.... As long as it works for him. I tell non Bills fans I know; EJ is everything you want in a QB...until he steps on the field. I live down in J-Ville, so I've seen plenty of Bortals the last few weeks. Poise, pocket presence and decisiveness are what I've seen in him. Bortals does appear to have some accuracy issues but damn, the game doesn't seem to overwhelm him like it does EJ. It makes me think that accuracy isn't what will hold EJ back in the end. Maybe the game will slow for EJ someday but it pains me to see other young QB's progress as rookies, and our guy regress.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) What simplistic Bunkum. Repetition, followed by more repetition, followed by more repetition is the best learning tool...not some pop psychobabble about 'lighting a fire' or 'competing' for a job. The 'job' is his. He has to get better at it. He's not going to do that if he's not playing, or surrounded by 10 other guys who aren't doing their job at a high level. The lack of a viable backup is a whole different issue...and one that's squarely on Whaley's shoulders. But that backup, whoever it is they pick up between now and next week, is not competition--they're 'insurance.' If this is the case why is it(competition) so important for the other positions on the field? I don't care if they light fires or pat his back and give him ice cream.... As long as it works for him. I tell non Bills fans I know; EJ is everything you want in a QB...until he steps on the field. I live down in J-Ville, so I've seen plenty of Bortals the last few weeks. Poise, pocket presence and decisiveness are what I've seen in him. Bortals does appear to have some accuracy issues but damn, the game doesn't seem to overwhelm him like it does EJ. It makes me think that accuracy isn't what will hold EJ back in the end. Maybe the game will slow for EJ someday but it pains me to see other young QB's progress as rookies, and our guy regress. But what about Bortles? Edited August 29, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
dayman Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 I have got to be one of the biggest EJ hater on the board, and I know I was he first to call him a complete disaster (the moment we drafted him and every day after). That said, even I recognize you have to stop fixating on it at some point. It is what it is, and this season is something I still plan on enjoying.
Lurker Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 If this is the case why is it (competition) so important for the other positions on the field? A host of reasons, most of which have been provided above. First and foremost, however, is that you've hitched your wagon to a 1st round QB with less than 10 games of starting experience. That guy has to play, he's your bell cow. Not some 3rd string LB looking for playing time on special teams or the battle for the fifth WR spot. It's been said over and over--the team will only go as far as EJ can take them. Granted, his preseason performance has been been less than productive. But that's the price you pay when you're forced to rely on a young QB, rather than having him sit behind an established veteran starter for a few years absorbing the game.
KD in CA Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 A thoughtful parent who has never seen a down of NFL football probably has more insight on coaching techniques than most of the armchair HCs on the board. True, but I like the Troy McClure motivational video suggestion! I miss Phil Hartman.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) A host of reasons, most of which have been provided above. First and foremost, however, is that you've hitched your wagon to a 1st round QB with less than 10 games of starting experience. That guy has to play, he's your bell cow. Not some 3rd string LB looking for playing time on special teams or the battle for the fifth WR spot. It's been said over and over--the team will only go as far as EJ can take them. Granted, his preseason performance has been been less than productive. But that's the price you pay when you're forced to rely on a young QB, rather than having him sit behind an established veteran starter for a few years absorbing the game. They were never forced into this position, they chose it. I do not think EJ is a bust because he has only 10 games under his belt. The question is why is it that other with questionable performance positions are not provided the same latitude. If we use the logic that you invested a first round pick on him then Maybin should have been out there getting reps and experience. Either the philosophy of "competition breeds excellence" is true or it is not. It shouldn't be used selectively. That said "proven" starters don't need competition, unless it becomes obvious that they may no longer have "it". I just do not think EJ has proved anything yet. Edited August 29, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
klos63 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 That would be ok if the GM didn't handicap himself given the increasing probability that EJ flops again this year. yeah, this could be a real problem if they needed next years first rounder for a QB. My guess is either Whaley or a different GM would go the FA route for a QB. There will be no patience for another draft choice.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 True, but I like the Troy McClure motivational video suggestion! I miss Phil Hartman. I don't think the world fully understands what a talent that guy was.
klos63 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Although the preseason looked horrible offensively, I thought Manuel played well last year, and if he didn't get hurt in the Cleveland game, the season likely would have had a much better outcome. Probably would have won that game and gone on from there. I think many are forgetting the bright side of his play as a rookie, missing lots of time. I will give him more regular season time to judge his performance.
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