thebandit27 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Nobody has even indicated what the wording (in general) states that prevents relocation, Its been a long time for that type of info not to have been leaked. Only way its not been leaked is it does not exist at all -its a myth, Bids and other items have been 'leaked' - why wouldnt the general wording/directive in the trust be leaked in some way? Only items keeping team here is the Lease known publicly cannot be broken for 6 years and that a local Buffalo bidder happens to be the highest bidder given that 6 year condition left on the lease. Actually, nothing has been "leaked" other than names of bidders. The bid numbers are all over the place--nobody knows them. As I said, if you are determined to believe that this is an auction as opposed to a sale, and that relocation is a viable option, then that's your prerogative. Of course, if you want to take someone's word, you an do that as well. Failing that, let's look at the relocation process logically: - the Rogers group has to win the bid despite having less cash than the competition, and less access to liquidity - they then have to prove to the County that they've never discussed relocation, or they can end up in court - they then have to plan a move without EVER being able to discuss where they'd play, as any discussions surrounding relocation during thr term of the lease would put them in court - they then have to convince Bills' fans that they won't move the team in order to avoid years of empty stadiums every Sunday. - they then have to convince the NFL that they can convince the fans of the above - they then have to wait out the lease and pay the $28M out fee in year 7--remember that up to this point, they cannot even have ever mentioned relocation or else they end up in court - they then have to convince at least 24 other owners to approve a relocation, and hope the small-market teams (NO, Jax, KC, St. L, GB, etc) don't band together and vote it down worrying that NYS politicians might challenge the league's antitrust exemption as they've hinted at before - they then have to pay the several-hundred million dollar relocation fees - they then have to find a viable place to play--Rogers Centre doesn't cut it for 10+ Sundays per year according to the NFL. - they then have to get a new stadium funded, which won't involve public money per Canadian provincial laws; so now they just need the cool billion in cash to do so No sweat right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 And common sense. And knowing how the NFL works. See how the NFL works? Like pushing/demanding Erie County tax payers to pony up 400 million for a stadium so those same people can then get to pay double the price? All that for whom? 32 rich greedy people at the expense of million common people. They have clearly shown their hand/greed. Why again is there a blackout rule ? Team stays here because Pegula bids the most - period. That's the 'common sense' in play here. We both expect the team to stay here - we just differ on why we think they stay. Actually, nothing has been "leaked" other than names of bidders. The bid numbers are all over the place--nobody knows them. As I said, if you are determined to believe that this is an auction as opposed to a sale, and that relocation is a viable option, then that's your prerogative. Of course, if you want to take someone's word, you an do that as well. Failing that, let's look at the relocation process logically: - the Rogers group has to win the bid despite having less cash than the competition, and less access to liquidity - they then have to prove to the County that they've never discussed relocation, or they can end up in court - they then have to plan a move without EVER being able to discuss where they'd play, as any discussions surrounding relocation during thr term of the lease would put them in court - they then have to convince Bills' fans that they won't move the team in order to avoid years of empty stadiums every Sunday. - they then have to convince the NFL that they can convince the fans of the above - they then have to wait out the lease and pay the $28M out fee in year 7--remember that up to this point, they cannot even have ever mentioned relocation or else they end up in court - they then have to convince at least 24 other owners to approve a relocation, and hope the small-market teams (NO, Jax, KC, St. L, GB, etc) don't band together and vote it down worrying that NYS politicians might challenge the league's antitrust exemption as they've hinted at before - they then have to pay the several-hundred million dollar relocation fees - they then have to find a viable place to play--Rogers Centre doesn't cut it for 10+ Sundays per year according to the NFL. - they then have to get a new stadium funded, which won't involve public money per Canadian provincial laws; so now they just need the cool billion in cash to do so No sweat right? Everything you point to is because of the LEASE - I agree that the lease publicly known is helping keep the team here along with Pegulas cash. NOTHING indicates there was a directive to the trust to take anything other than the highest bid. I dont believe that directive exists - I do believe the lease exists and do believe Pegulas has cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 See how the NFL works? Like pushing/demanding Erie County tax payers to pony up 400 million for a stadium so those same people can then get to pay double the price? All that for whom? 32 rich greedy people at the expense of million common people. They have clearly shown their hand/greed. Why again is there a blackout rule ? Team stays here because Pegula bids the most - period. That's the 'common sense' in play here. We both expect the team to stay here - we just differ on why we think they stay. Everything you point to is because of the LEASE - I agree that the lease publicly known is helping keep the team here along with Pegulas cash. NOTHING indicates there was a directive to the trust to take anything other than the highest bid. I dont believe that directive exists - I do believe the lease exists and do believe Pegulas has cash. Because of the lease, the Toronto bid has zero chance. Zero. It is not about the almighty dollar. It's not about the billions they can pay. It's about the fact the NfL will never allow a lame duck team for eight years. That's common sense. That's how they work. They are not just greedy bastards. The league likes the Bills in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Because of the lease, the Toronto bid has zero chance. Zero. It is not about the almighty dollar. It's not about the billions they can pay. It's about the fact the NfL will never allow a lame duck team for eight years. That's common sense. That's how they work. They are not just greedy bastards. The league likes the Bills in Buffalo. Buffalo is very very lucky the changing of hands occurred while there were still a good number of years left on that lease which would have been made weaker and weaker with each passing year, The idea that RW gave any directive (above and beyond the lease) to the trust to take anything other than the highest bid I think is total lala land BS. Also I think people are dreaming if the 32 NFL owners wouldnt just love to have some type of tycoon offer $5 billion for the team and simply sit on it until it could be moved and screw small town Buffalo. Those 32 owners include the Wilsons Edited August 30, 2014 by jahbonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Buffalo is very very lucky the changing of hands occurred while there were still a good number of years left on that lease which would have been made weaker and weaker with each passing year, The idea that RW gave any directive (above and beyond the lease) to the trust to take anything other than the highest bid I think is total lala land BS. I think you're wrong for several good and obvious reasons that have been discussed here at length, but right now there is no way to verify it or know for sure so it's fairly pointless to argue about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I think you're wrong for several good and obvious reasons that have been discussed here at length, but right now there is no way to verify it or know for sure so it's fairly pointless to argue about it. Ok then why has it been perfectly ok to state that such a directive exists? (Since nobody can prove whats in thr Trust directive) but for some reason its not ok to state that such a directive does not exist. There would be a huge PR gain to leak such a directive because it makes RW look wonderful - yet we dont see it. So common sense tells you its simply not there. But they allow the phoney speculation to go on that such a directive is in there because it benefits them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Ok then why has it been perfectly ok to state that such a directive exists? (Since nobody can prove whats in thr Trust directive) but for some reason its not ok to state that such a directive does not exist. There would be a huge PR gain to leak such a directive because it makes RW look wonderful - yet we dont see it. So common sense tells you its simply not there. But they allow the phoney speculation to go on that such a directive is in there because it benefits them It's been okay because certain folks that have proven reliable with information from 1 Bills Drive have been told that the Trust isn't going to sell to anyone with relocation intent. You're choosing not to believe them, as I've said that's fine. I'm just not sure why you're seemingly offended by that info though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Buffalo is very very lucky the changing of hands occurred while there were still a good number of years left on that lease which would have been made weaker and weaker with each passing year, The idea that RW gave any directive (above and beyond the lease) to the trust to take anything other than the highest bid I think is total lala land BS. Also I think people are dreaming if the 32 NFL owners wouldnt just love to have some type of tycoon offer $5 billion for the team and simply sit on it until it could be moved and screw small town Buffalo. Those 32 owners include the Wilsons Why would Mr. Wilson insist on the caveat that the buyer had to carry 3 out of 4 votes of the voting trustees? And what do you make of the report from a couple weeks ago that said the trust, in allowing the Toronto group to restructure their initial bid, wanted to see more definitive plans for that group's intentions to stay in Buffalo? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I dont believe them because it would be a gesture of good will and taking less than what they can get - that is exactly how the NFL does NOT operate, Why would Mr. Wilson insist on the caveat that the buyer had to carry 3 out of 4 votes of the voting trustees? And what do you make of the report from a couple weeks ago that said the trust, in allowing the Toronto group to restructure their initial bid, wanted to see more definitive plans for that group's intentions to stay in Buffalo? GO BILLS!!! Just the fact that they are talking to Toronto group rather than simply directly with Pegula to wrap up a deal indicates relocation is a 2ndary concern Why even interview a Toronto group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Ok then why has it been perfectly ok to state that such a directive exists? (Since nobody can prove whats in thr Trust directive) but for some reason its not ok to state that such a directive does not exist. There would be a huge PR gain to leak such a directive because it makes RW look wonderful - yet we dont see it. So common sense tells you its simply not there. But they allow the phoney speculation to go on that such a directive is in there because it benefits them Because, obviously, that hurts their eventual sale price. The Trust, and the NFL, want two things, to keep the team in Buffalo and make the most money doing it. The bank running the sale, in all likelihood, just wants to make the most money but they have to follow the directives of the trust. By saying there is a directive, that would eliminate any potential moneybags from coming in and forcing Pegula to pay a little more than he has to. That is what is happening anyway and that is why the guy from LA and other billionaires that signed the original NDA were scared off. But the bank and league and trust are still doing all they can to make the most money they can AND keep the team in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I dont believe them because it would be a gesture of good will and taking less than what they can get - that is exactly how the NFL does NOT operate, Just the fact that they are talking to Toronto group rather than simply directly with Pegula to wrap up a deal indicates relocation is a 2ndary concern Why even interview a Toronto group? Possibly because the terms of the Trust dictate that they make efforts to increase competition in the bidding process. It honesty sounds like you're trying to convince the rest of us that the fix is in for Toronto. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I dont believe them because it would be a gesture of good will and taking less than what they can get - that is exactly how the NFL does NOT operate, Just the fact that they are talking to Toronto group rather than simply directly with Pegula to wrap up a deal indicates relocation is a 2ndary concern Why even interview a Toronto group? I think it's obvious: to increase the competitive bids of the other three reported players. But as I've alluded to previously, Bon Jovi bowing out only improves the Toronto group's ability a smidgen because that group is handcuffed by the Rogers trust in a way that's not conducive to the process. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Because, obviously, that hurts their eventual sale price. The Trust, and the NFL, want two things, to keep the team in Buffalo and make the most money doing it. The bank running the sale, in all likelihood, just wants to make the most money but they have to follow the directives of the trust. By saying there is a directive, that would eliminate any potential moneybags from coming in and forcing Pegula to pay a little more than he has to. That is what is happening anyway and that is why the guy from LA and other billionaires that signed the original NDA were scared off. But the bank and league and trust are still doing all they can to make the most money they can AND keep the team in Buffalo. Any potential bidder would be aware the dictaes of the trust (the public would not know this), Or are you indicating bandit and twobills drive know this directive but actual bidders do not??? They are going to take the highest bid - and because 6yrs still exist (*thank god for us) the big bids from out of town did not bother... However that is v different from saying RW told the Trust to not sell to relocating interests etccc making RW looking like a savior If only 1 year existed on that lease - we would be crying the blues about losing the team to a very high bid from out of town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Any potential bidder would be aware the dictaes of the trust (the public would not know this), Or are you indicating bandit and twobills drive know this directive but actual bidders do not??? They are going to take the highest bid - and because 6yrs still exist (*thank god for us) the big bids from out of town did not bother... However that is v different from saying RW told the Trust to not sell to relocating interests etccc making RW looking like a savior If only 1 year existed on that lease - we would be crying the blues about losing the team to a very high bid from out of town Again, they are gonna take the highest bid that garners a 3/4 vote of the trustees. There's a difference between that and the highest bid. But I don't think Pegual WON'T be the highest bid anyway. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Any potential bidder would be aware the dictaes of the trust (the public would not know this), Or are you indicating bandit and twobills drive know this directive but actual bidders do not??? They are going to take the highest bid - and because 6yrs still exist (*thank god for us) the big bids from out of town did not bother... However that is v different from saying RW told the Trust to not sell to relocating interests etccc making RW looking like a savior If only 1 year existed on that lease - we would be crying the blues about losing the team to a very high bid from out of town Ralph would have never ever ever subjected his wife and his niece to the verbal abuse and hatred they would receive if they sold just to highest bidder and said screw Buffalo. Not a chance. They wouldn't even be able to show their face. He would not have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The Toronto group was genius to get the albatross of Jon Bon Jovi off their neck, immediately rejuvenated and hot wired their bid and virtually overnight, went from having no chance in hell to having no chance in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Any potential bidder would be aware the dictaes of the trust (the public would not know this), Or are you indicating bandit and twobills drive know this directive but actual bidders do not??? They are going to take the highest bid - and because 6yrs still exist (*thank god for us) the big bids from out of town did not bother... However that is v different from saying RW told the Trust to not sell to relocating interests etccc making RW looking like a savior If only 1 year existed on that lease - we would be crying the blues about losing the team to a very high bid from out of town A renegotiation most likey would have transpired before only one year was left on the least. Regardless, Its not the case and an irrelevant point to try to make. Edited August 30, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Well... I see that we may be on Round 3 but new folks have shown up with doomsday arguments. Egads... They are staying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) You guys are real insane, You just don't get it. This is by far the worst sign that the Bills are leaving Buffalo. This new group with out Bonjovi Will bid over 2 Billion. They are in it to win it. Tim Graham confirmed that the Ralph's Will does not Say they can't sell to out of town Bidders. His Will says they have to sell to the highest bidder. This has been confirmed. The lease that Ralph signed with Erie County says They can't move until 2022 with a 400 million Dollar buy out. You guys just don't get it, as Canada's only NFL Team they stand to make Billions. They will just pony up the 400 Million and break the lease it's that simple. They will not spend 6 years waiting with empty stands at the Ralph. They want this team and now that the Bon Jovi financial handcuffs are off there bid watch out. Terry Pegula better be prepared to pay over 2 Billion if he wants the Bills. The Canada groups Face has been rubbed and dragged through The mud and now there ready to blow all bidders Out of the water. I hate to say this but I got a bad feeling. My stomach is churning and I'm upset. I do not want my Bills leaving buffalo It's like this group from Canada has 9 lives We need to put a silver bullet through there heart Edited August 30, 2014 by billsareback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 That is an epic Ode to Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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