PolishDave Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that coaches don't want to show their hands to the teams they are going to be playing early in the upcoming season. That makes sense to me. But, let's assume for a minute that a lot of the plays you are going to be running this year are the same plays that you ran last year. Aren't they? If that is the case, then those upcoming teams already have plenty of film on the plays you run. So, if I am a coach, I am looking at last year's film assuming that those plays are mostly what I am going to see. Doesn't that make sense? And if that is the case, then why can't you at least go ahead and actually run the plays that you ran last year? I can see why you wouldn't want to reveal any new changes you intend to implement. But if a lot of the plays are the same as the previous year, what are you really giving away? Aren't you better off getting in that live practice for real plays in a live game environment? Do you get what I mean? I don't understand why they can't go ahead and run those plays. The other coaches already see them on film anyway. Please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) It's more to do with the larger pattern than the actual plays. Kind of like how Bills are notorious for running on 1st and 10. Everyone knows they tend to do it, probably about 60-70% of the time. The other aspects like, 3rd and 5, 3rd and 7, 3rd and 10+, etc. You get to see what teams are calling more often. So even if they bills are 3rd and 4 for 80 times in a season, if they run the same play 15-20% of the time, it shows their "go to" play. Edited August 28, 2014 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 If I'm a coach in the AFC East along with Billacheat - I wouldn't show a single play in public until it's regular season - & even then I would save plays just for the cheaters. I would do the majority of training behind closed doors. ..... But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 It's more to do with the larger pattern than the actual plays. Kind of like how Bills are notorious for running on 1st and 10. Everyone knows they tend to do it, probably about 60-70% of the time. The other aspects like, 3rd and 5, 3rd and 7, 3rd and 10+, etc. You get to see what teams are calling more often. So even if they bills are 3rd and 4 for 80 times in a season, if they run the same play 15-20% of the time, it shows their "go to" play. Don't they already get all that info from last year's film though? All that is already on tape. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that coaches don't want to show their hands to the teams they are going to be playing early in the upcoming season. That makes sense to me. But, let's assume for a minute that a lot of the plays you are going to be running this year are the same plays that you ran last year. Aren't they? If that is the case, then those upcoming teams already have plenty of film on the plays you run. So, if I am a coach, I am looking at last year's film assuming that those plays are mostly what I am going to see. Doesn't that make sense? And if that is the case, then why can't you at least go ahead and actually run the plays that you ran last year? I can see why you wouldn't want to reveal any new changes you intend to implement. But if a lot of the plays are the same as the previous year, what are you really giving away? Aren't you better off getting in that live practice for real plays in a live game environment? Do you get what I mean? I don't understand why they can't go ahead and run those plays. The other coaches already see them on film anyway. Please enlighten me. My only stab at it is maybe instead of a complete overhaul of Hackett's offense they have changed say 50% of it. Maybe during this lengthy TC they were able to work on a bunch of new wrinkles and showed none of it during their preseason games. I have a sneaking suspicion that the offense will be able to move the ball against chicago easily. We may even see a bit of it against detroit tomorrow night. I don't agree with being completely Vanilla during these preseason games but as long as they are getting in the work during camp practices it will be fine....guess we will find out in 10 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Don't they already get all that info from last year's film though? All that is already on tape. No? In theory yes but in reality there are other factors. Who is the QB/WR? Think of Manning when he was with the colts. You always saw him hit Wayne on a post route but it could have been a 5/10/12/15 yard post route. Just those little changes can change the way a team will game plan on both offense and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I was talking with a coworker today who is a Syracuse alum and was an equipment guy for the football team while he was a student. He told me Doug Marrone is THE most paranoid coach ever. For the spring games, he would run the blandest offense possible, never wanting to give away anything on film if he could avoid it. Say what you will about Marrone and our chances this year (I may not even disagree with you), but I'm pretty confident he's got a lot up his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that coaches don't want to show their hands to the teams they are going to be playing early in the upcoming season. That makes sense to me. But, let's assume for a minute that a lot of the plays you are going to be running this year are the same plays that you ran last year. Aren't they? If that is the case, then those upcoming teams already have plenty of film on the plays you run. Well, it's that while the players have the offseason to relax and maybe work out, the coaches don't. They break down all tendencies from last year to figure out how to fix problem areas. They do not intend to simply repeat things and expect different results. Some plays will be jettisoned , new ones drawn up , and still others run out of "looks" they showed pre snap that were successful. The plays they ran well are ones that D coordinators will have defenses to stop , and may be vulnerable to a different play run off that formation or in that down and distance tendency. Coaches really don't have an offseason if they plan on keeping their jobs for long. They spend all off season designing stuff to implement during camp that will be run in the regular season. Pre season is just for running a handful of plays in no particular order or down and distance tendency, to evaluate individual athletic performance. And, opposing teams are not game planning for you either. So they are not even looking at film of you. You may not be installing an entirely new offense , but there will be significant differences and you don't want any of that on film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 An interesting question indeed. I have a couple of thoughts on it. 1. I think all teams do this. I remember in 2011 in the pre season Coach Gailey ran the most unimaginable stuff you could imagine all pre season long. Even more boring than what Hackett's running. But come game one vs the Cheaps he pulled out the kitchen sink ran all kinds of stuff we had only dreamed about. And we blew out the Cheaps in their own house. Hopefully that's whats happening here. 2. OK, no one runs what they're really going to run in PS. So do teams really scout what the other teams do in pre season to try to find out what they're going to do? Why would they since no one is running what they're really going to run anyway? So maybe you should run some of your stuff because they won't expect you to run that. Kind of reverse paranoia hiding stuff. I wonder if that would work? The only thing that worries me about us running this vanilla crap is that Mike Williams in an interview said they were just keeping it simple and trying to get the fundamental basic stuff down first. Doesn't seem like we're even able to execute on that. Should be fun Thursday night watching Jordon and next Sunday to see what we got. Go BILLS !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that coaches don't want to show their hands to the teams they are going to be playing early in the upcoming season. That makes sense to me. But, let's assume for a minute that a lot of the plays you are going to be running this year are the same plays that you ran last year. Aren't they? If that is the case, then those upcoming teams already have plenty of film on the plays you run. So, if I am a coach, I am looking at last year's film assuming that those plays are mostly what I am going to see. Doesn't that make sense? And if that is the case, then why can't you at least go ahead and actually run the plays that you ran last year? I can see why you wouldn't want to reveal any new changes you intend to implement. But if a lot of the plays are the same as the previous year, what are you really giving away? Aren't you better off getting in that live practice for real plays in a live game environment? Do you get what I mean? I don't understand why they can't go ahead and run those plays. The other coaches already see them on film anyway. Please enlighten me. It's extremely simple. the QB doesn't make good decisions when the plays require a read beyond the first receiver. When those plays are called, the result was usually an overthrow, a sack, a fumble, or an interception. So they have been running a pop-gun first read, quick pass offense to try and move the chains. If you think I'm embellishing or over-simplifying, just watch closely at the play-calling from the rare occasion where EJ was in a game last year, he was mindlessly lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 in why not? it doesn't matter if they win or lose on the score board. A team wins or loses by how they evaluate their talent and how few injuries they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that you wouldn't want to show anything brand new that you intend to do in the regular season. But I don't think they completely scrap the playbook from year to year. There has to be a number of plays that they keep as part of the playbook. And running those plays (without any new tweaks or adjustments) reveals nothing new to the opponents they will be playing. After thinking about this dilemma more I have arrived at a new conclusion. Here it is... It must be that the coaches really only view preseason games as a pure "talent evaluation" tool and not as an actual practice. If they looked at preseason games as "practice" time then they would run legit plays even if those plays were some of the more generic plays in their playbooks. And if the coaches really do look at preseason games as nothing more than "talent evaluation tools" then they should come right out and say "Winning is irrelevant in preseason" Marrone came out and said that winning in preseason is the most important thing to him in each game. But that has to be Bull****. Because if winning those games really mattered to him or anyone else, then you don't approach the games the way they have. I remember Marv saying he didn't care whether they won or lost preseason and that he just used them to evaluate talent. Talent meaning individual player performance versus another opponent. And also checking on a player's basic technique at their position. I think our coaches are doing the same thing and using it as purely a talent evaluation. Nothing else makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 are you guys kidding ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Don't they already get all that info from last year's film though? All that is already on tape. No? Yes, which is why in my opinion the whole concept of "vanilla" is nonsense. The Bills offense is almost identical to last season, with the notable difference being the (presumed) huge upgrade at #1 WR. Everyone has seen the Bills offense. They don't gameplan much at all for preseason, they run stuff they want to work on live and that can be used to evaluate people. They are not playing to win at all costs like in the regular season, that's what makes it look "vanilla". They aren't doing it as a smoke screen or to hide their awesome new game changing offensive scheme from their opponents, or any other (IMO) silly thoughts. It is preseason and they are treating it as such. Things naturally change week 1 of the regular season. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 ...... But, let's assume for a minute that a lot of the plays you are going to be running this year are the same plays that you ran last year. Aren't they? ....... Please enlighten me. From what I understand, only a fraction of the playbook was used last season(due to QBs & injuries). With a QB that has a better understanding of the plays, two healthy RBs & the additions of both SW & MW, I wouldn't be surprised if all but a handful of plays that we use this season resemble those of last season. I could be totally wrong though. I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I like vanilla and think it's getting a bad rap by being connected to uncomplicated, bland offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) The major factor is game planning. They don't do it very much, and so they don't run the plays that the coaches think are best designed to attack that specific defense and those specific players and get matchup problems. During the week they would practice those 20-30 plays or so and refine them, and then try to break down the defense. This year, we haven't even utilized the offensive mind of Jim hostler we hired from the Ravens who will specifically work on game planning. He's had a lot of experience in the NFL and was considered for the Ravens offensive coordinator job that went to Kubiak. From Mark Gaughan: "It’s not uncommon for a team to hire a senior assistant to help with game planning. Last season there were seven teams that essentially had that kind of guy, although the job titles varied. They included Baltimore, Kansas City, New England, Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle and Tampa Bay." We will see if he will help. The nfl is all about match ups, exploiting weaknesses, putting players in positions to make plays and succeed, and calling the right plays against the defense at the right time. They don't do any of that in preseason. We will see if Hackett and his fellow coaches are up to the task. IMO it is foolish to even grade Hackett and whether or not he is capable of it because he simply wasn't given a chance to. I have no great confidence that he can, it's just an unknown right now. Much like EJ. In effect, the bills have two unknowns that have to turn out to be pretty good. It's not just EJ it's EJ and Hackett. Anyone who says they knows Hackett is no good is just wrong. Edited August 28, 2014 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 obviously and to the best of my knowledge its because chocolate went bananas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 The major factor is game planning. They don't do it very much, and so they don't run the plays that the coaches think are best designed to attack that specific defense and those specific players and get matchup problems. During the week they would practice those 20-30 plays or so and refine them, and then try to break down the defense. So if I understand you right, you are saying that the coaches really can't pick plays to run from the playbook that make sense with any confidence unless they game plan for the team. And it doesn't make sense to game plan for the teams in preseason because it doesn't matter really whether you win or lose. And if you game planned you would end up revealing things you don't want to. Is that kind of what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hackett's play calling wasn't much more than vanilla, last year in the regular season... Never thought I would say this, But, I miss Chan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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