yall Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Why for you say such things? I recall that when Marrone was first hired he stated that his philosophy was up-tempo/hurry up to be able to run more plays. I could be mistaken, but that is my recollection.
NoSaint Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I recall that when Marrone was first hired he stated that his philosophy was up-tempo/hurry up to be able to run more plays. I could be mistaken, but that is my recollection. the two have been together for hacketts whole OC career, so its hard to separate the two. i will note that hackett was on our staff as quality control coach the last time that we tried that philosophy though, so he may have brought it with him to marrone - though they both clearly like it. Edited August 28, 2014 by NoSaint
yall Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) as the two have been together for hacketts whole career, its hard to separate the two. i will note that hackett was on our staff the last time that we tried that philosophy though, so he may have brought it with him to marrone - though they both clearly like it. Yeah he was a offensive quality control guy or something like that right? And I agree - I think the two share the same mind re: hurry-up/no huddle. Personally, I don't take issue with it, except when it's glaringly obvious that you should be doing everything in your power to chew up clock. Edited August 28, 2014 by yall
bonechiller Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Rob's House..... Why do I read all your freakin' posts in Nicholas Cage's voice? freakin' cracks me up.
NoSaint Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Yeah he was a offensive quality control guy or something like that right? And I agree - I think the two share the same mind re: hurry-up/no huddle. Personally, I don't take issue with it, except when it's glaringly obvious that you should be doing everything in your power to chew up clock. im fine with tempo too -- it limits packages on D, and can keep young guys from over thinking..... but there were a few times last year that it seemed to be forced for the sake of saying we were sticking to our style. theres got to be some kind of attempt at a 4 minute offense in the system, where you chew clock and string together 2-3 first downs. to use the more common defensive example - im not saying abandon the blitz to play prevent on the last drive, but you dont have to send 8 every down either.
bbb Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 I know me neither. The offense is such a dynamic powerhouse and were using all of our weapons to their full potential. We're unpredictable and our option schemes are real head scratchers for opposing defenses. The man has been flawless thus far. He's only in his 30s but he already has the mind of a young Lombardi.
Ted William's frozen head Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Is he just the latest whipping boy? Enlighten me please. Endless loop play calling tends to do that to fans.......
Max997 Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Is he just the latest whipping boy for chronic complainers? Surely people aren't complaining based on preseason? Last year he had the greenest group of QBs in the nfl to work with, and all of them started games. He rightly focused on running the ball to set up play action. The bills finished 19th in ypg, which is damn good considering the first year of the system AND going through the QB carousel. Enlighten me please. Did you watch the games last year or do you like many others base your opinion solely on statistics? Setup play action? Most Bills fans were screaming for play action bc he simply didn't use it enough which is dumb considering they are a running team with a young QB. His play calling is very predictable with no imagination calling same couple plays over and over. The young QB excuse is just that an excuse. How many times did he call the shotgun draw over guard last year which most of the time didn't amount to much especially on 3rd and 1 instead of just lining up in the I formation and pounding it? He also loves calling low percentage plays that just never worked. Yes you have to take shots but why keep calling those plays when they don't work. Edited August 28, 2014 by Max997
K-9 Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 ... Setup play action? Most Bills fans were screaming for play action bc he simply didn't use it enough which is dumb considering they are a running team with a young QB. Not for nothing, but there were two VERY good reasons why you didn't see too much play action last year: that rookie QB whom you don't want to have his back to the play very often and a porous OLine. That said, I think we'll see more of it this year assuming we can establish the run game and the OL proves better at pass protection. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 Another big thing that I think gives him a short leash- there are only like 10-15 good qbs, they only last so long and they are nearly impossible to sign..... So where you have to take a shot with a guy like ej, at OC it's not impossible to find someone with a bit more pedigree
Max997 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Not for nothing, but there were two VERY good reasons why you didn't see too much play action last year: that rookie QB whom you don't want to have his back to the play very often and a porous OLine. That said, I think we'll see more of it this year assuming we can establish the run game and the OL proves better at pass protection. GO BILLS!!! Sorry but that's not correct. A good running game and play action make any QBs life a lot easier, young or not. Edited August 29, 2014 by Max997
SRQ_BillsFan Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Putting Spiller in space would have caused a lot more issues with his ankle as it takes a lot more running, same with using him as a receiver. He needs to run more when he is not getting the ball too or else it doesn't work. I'm not sure his ankle would have taken that and allowed him to still play. Not sure I like the hurry up, but in any case he needed to utilize it with time management better. Before the end of the half or the end of the game when we have a lead is a time to slow things down. That was my issue with the hurry up. I think they got a bit better with this as the season went along. Not great, just better. I think every young quarterback is taught to take what the defense gives you. This preseason I heard both Marrone and Hacket praise EJ for trying to put the ball into a small area on occasion and even commented that he would not have attempted that last year. I don't love the guy, but he had too many things go wrong that were certainly not expected from the injury standpoint. I think he runs too much, but they have said this is a run 1st team. Execution would have made his game plans look much better. Let's see where we are after a few games. Assuming we don't suffer the injuries we did last year. I want to see how they expect to use all of these running backs and hope we do see CJ and Fred in the backfield together. This is something I can see them leaving out of the preseason. Did the Bills show this look much in camp? Would love to see it used often.
NoSaint Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 If Spillers ankle was that bad his OC should've shelved him, not run him up the middle repeatedly
boyst Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 If Spillers ankle was that bad his OC should've shelved him, not run him up the middle repeatedly But, that's just it. Me thinks the ankle was not that bad and me thinks the OC did not have a true comprehension of the limits of CJ Spiller. The guy needs space. Anyone who doesn't realize that is a fool. Is Hackett a fool? I am not sure. I remember a few particular lines from Marrone and Hacket this offseason that they want to incorporate Spiller in the passing play and get him in space. All we have seen CJ really do is run. I think there could be a hidden wrinkle with CJ going to catch passes.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Who knows how bad his ankle really was. He was obviously limping around and was caught from behind. It stands to reason if it was bothering him that using him as a receiver and running routes downfield would aggravate it more. Pain pills and shots can mask some of that, but not if he makes it worse running 20 yards downfield on a pass play. We did not have the depth at RB that we have this year. If it were to happen this year maybe they shut him down for 2-3 weeks to give it time to start to get better. Most people were certainly hoping he was going to play each week. We saw that he could be effective at times with it. Edited August 29, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan
K-9 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Sorry but that's not correct. A good running game and play action make any QBs life a lot easier, young or not. Of course a good running game helps a young QB. I'm not arguing against that. That's basic stuff. As for play action, it works best when a good running game has been established. Again, football 101. But it's not as simple as you make it out to be because the QB has to turn his back to the defense for however long it takes to execute a proper play fake and coaches are often reluctant to ask young QBs to do that too often. For obvious reasons. It may not seem like much, but that split second of missing the play develop can be an eternity to young QBs learning how to read defenses at this level. GO BILLS!!! Edited August 29, 2014 by K-9
Buffaloed in Pa Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 What don`t you get ? A raw QB running a fast paced O. C`mon.Anyone that knows football ,knows it should be a power running game. With our D and E.J.s limited skills,this is what we should be running. Eat the clock,NOT give the ball back time after time. This is what the steelers did with Big Ben. Let EJ grow or get a QB that can run the fast paced O.
bbb Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 What don`t you get ? A raw QB running a fast paced O. C`mon.Anyone that knows football ,knows it should be a power running game. With our D and E.J.s limited skills,this is what we should be running. Eat the clock,NOT give the ball back time after time. This is what the steelers did with Big Ben. Let EJ grow or get a QB that can run the fast paced O. It makes no sense that they do this.
simpleman Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 A lot of the hate emerges from what Pettine was able to accomplish by comparison. Pettine was able to recognize the strength of his players and play to those strengths. several under his leadership - mcKelvin, a Williams, Dareus, turned their careers around. Hacket is not able to identify or play to the strengths of his players. Consequently, capable players run the risk of being run out of the league under Hacket. A lot of the hate emerges from what Pettine was able to accomplish by comparison. Pettine was able to recognize the strength of his players and play to those strengths. several under his leadership - mcKelvin, a Williams, Dareus, turned their careers around. Hacket is not able to identify or play to the strengths of his players. Consequently, capable players run the risk of being run out of the league under Hacket. :thumbsup:
dave mcbride Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 I think we put way too much weight on the raw INT number, as though they're all equal. A 40 yd bomb that gets picked (barring a big return) isn't a whole lot different from a punt, but on the stat sheet it's the same as a pick 6 at the LOS. That was exactly Mike Martz's philosophy vis-a-vis Kurt Warner. He didn't have a problem with picks on deep throws.
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