EJ and an excellent dissection of what happened against Tampa

[Dorkington]

"EJ sucked at FSU, sucked so far in Bufflow, will suck forever and ever amen." That sums up a certain group of posters opinions on EJ.

 

So, okay, coming out of FSU, what was the consensus on him? That he had great size, great hands, a ton of athletic ability, a drive to succeed, a hard-worker, intelligent, but that he was a raw talent that needed work and time and patience to develop into a top QB. The Bills themselves acknowledged this. But due to circumstances, he was forced into action before much in the way of "training him up" for the starting job could be done. Then he got hurt, yadda yadda yadda. Now he's got 10 starts under his belt, one focused off season and TC. His partisans, including his teammates, say he's made great strides. His critics say he hasn't.

 

Here's what I think, particularly after listening to Kelso: EJ has spent a lot of time correcting and improving certain fundamentals. For now, in preseason, he's thinking his way through those lessons rather than just letting it rip. In other words, he's training his body's "muscle memory" in a conscious way which, we and he hope, will become second nature by or at least during the regular season. With those improvements in his game now internalized, he will then "let it rip" automatically. Then we should see the kid from FSU with all that raw talent, now more polished, fulfilling all that promise. That at least is the hope and the plan. And I for one would like to focus on the positive side instead of the negative because I honestly believe there really is more upside than down in him.

 

Good post.

 

I *want* and hope that we give him three seasons before giving up. It's rare that a QB lights it up before then.

[thewildrabbit]

Good listen. Basically line was bad, WRs ran some bad routes, guys slipped, some balls were thrown on the wrong hip or shoulder....

 

This was a team loss not an indictment of the QB...

 

Interesting to me there was only one real WTF throw when I looked at the game again. Turned out throw was where it should have been and woods was not based on Kelso. Maybe EJ isn't the worst QB on the face of the earth just yet...

 

Also, if the line is lousey, the running game isn't going and the WRs run the wrong routes, no young QB is going to win the game on his own.

 

There are a few that can overcome this, but certainly not Manuel... Not now, maybe never....I absolutely don't think that makes him a lousey QB.

 

You've got Brady, Peyton... And then everyone else. Even Rodgers and Brees haven't been able to carry weaker teams to the playoffs yeah after year.

Not a lot of fans get this. Most just want to focus on one player and place the blame on him.

[PolishDave]

I *want* and hope that we give him three seasons before giving up. It's rare that a QB lights it up before then.

Whoh whoh whoh there buddy.....

 

Don't you want to see how he plays in year 2 before anointing him year 3 just yet? He has to show substantial progress this year. Doesn't he? If he doesn't show enough progress, I certainly don't expect them to hope he just might in the 3rd year.

 

I am a season ticket holder. I love my Bills and like to see them invest in future talent. But, geeze man.... I don't want to throw away seasons just hoping and sit through a 3rd season of losses if the guy doesn't look better this year.

[Dorkington]

 

Whoh whoh whoh there buddy.....

 

Don't you want to see how he plays in year 2 before anointing him year 3 just yet? He has to show substantial progress this year. Doesn't he? If he doesn't show enough progress, I certainly don't expect them to hope he just might in the 3rd year.

 

I am a season ticket holder. I love my Bills and like to see them invest in future talent. But, geeze man.... I don't want to throw away seasons just hoping and sit through a 3rd season of losses if the guy doesn't look better this year.

 

I'd only cut my losses if he plays worse, personally. It's not like we have a first round pick to draft a "sure thing" next year.

[PolishDave]

I'd only cut my losses if he plays worse, personally. It's not like we have a first round pick to draft a "sure thing" next year.

He might just get a 3rd year by default because of the draft situation as you pointed out. I have a feeling that if the team stinks it up in the regular season and there isn't a change made at quarterback, the natives will want to start tire fires on the fifty yard line during preseason next year.

 

But the point is meaningless because EJ is going to improve and the Bills are going to get better........they gotta.....they will......

[John from Riverside]

He might just get a 3rd year by default because of the draft situation as you pointed out. I have a feeling that if the team stinks it up in the regular season and there isn't a change made at quarterback, the natives will want to start tire fires on the fifty yard line during preseason next year.

 

But the point is meaningless because EJ is going to improve and the Bills are going to get better........they gotta.....they will......

 

I think he would REALLY have to suck it up to not get that 3rd year.....or get hurt (which I hope never happens again)

[A Dog Named Kelso]

The Mayock reassessment that prompted the re-evaluation summary of several pundit views does as you point out correctly labels EJ as a project.

 

However, I think it also correctly (c0mpared to the other QBs available in a lackluster year for QB draft talent) summarizes a few weeks before many pundits had EJ in the 4th round, but the concensus of pundit views had re-evaluated (as often happens with showcases like the Senior Bowl and the Combine that EJ was clearly a legit 2nd round pick. Further, if Mayock (not a professional scout but a guy who clearly got a lot more right than he got wrong in his articles had actually dubbed EJ the #2 to Geno Smith among QBs in the draft.

 

I think that was about right also.

 

Overall, the article asks the question looking at the Eagles situation or whether it in fact made more sense for them to take the project EJ in the 1st because the QB draft class was so weak.

 

I think that this strikes me as a pretty sound assessment of the situation. The Bills agreed with this assessment and decided that:

 

1. Given Fitzy's implosion, the Bills needed to find at least one (and I think true from a football rather than a fan-based view) QBs.

2. No quality QBs were available to the Bills in the FA market

3. The bills needed to draft the best prospect available to them.

4. It was a lousy draft and if you wanna guarantee you get 1 if the 2 best QB PROJECTS in this draft you watch and when 1 (Smith or EJ) gets taken you do what you have to get the other. If both are still on the board when you pick then trade down.

 

I think this was the right strategy to pursue.

 

The bottomline is this.

 

A: Yes EJ is a project as you point out. However, in this weak QB class every pick was a project. The real ? is whether EJ, Geno, or someone else was the best project.

 

B: A project is gonna take at least 2 seasons and more likely 3 before he is good enough to carry and lead the team.

 

c: Even though its gonna be 2 or 3 seasons before EJ is good enough to lead, can the Bills still compete for the playoffs with mere so-so play from EJ?

 

Sure, if the rest of the TEAM is good enuf.

 

The Bills braintrust knew full well that EJ was the best PROJECT available in his draft (not hard actually as all you needed was to have more upside than Geno Smith).

 

Almost every rookie needs 3 seasons before you can reasonably declare him a bust or a star. The Bills braintrust had to know this was true of EJ as well.

 

Its really only us panicky fans that demand a playoff caliber performance from a rookie or even a second year player.

 

The question for the Bills braintrust (and anyone with half a football brain or who doesn't make money being a pro whiner like Shoop or Sully) is NOT whether EJ would be good enough in his first or even second year to carry his team to the playoffs.

 

HE WILL NOT.

 

I do not disagree with your assessment my issue is that you give credit to the Bills brain trust for their knowledge of what the development of EJ would be, but they didn't keep Fitz. Had Fitz been kept it would go a lot further into proving your point, I think. Replacing Fitz with Kolb shows a lack of awareness rather than the astuteness you are crediting them with.

 

Plus Buddy all but declared Fitz would be completing for a back up spot(in that recorded phone call), meaning they thought who they drafted who be the starter, no?

Edited August 28, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[Buffalo Barbarian]

There's been an awful lot of criticism thrown at our starting QB over the last several weeks. Some of it is deserved, some if it is slightly misinformed and some of it shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of what your watching.

 

Mark Kelso did a great breakdown on the John Murphy show. I'd highly recommend that you listen to it if you want to improve your football IQ (and not look stupid when you post)!

 

http://www.buffalobi....2-8538ee8cf53d

 

I heard it, just more excuse making for EJ and how it was mostly the other guys fault.

[PolishDave]

I heard it, just more excuse making for EJ and how it was mostly the other guys fault.

If it wasn't Kelso I might tend to agree with your viewpoint. But Kelso is as straight up honest as they get. Really.. You can take what he says to the bank.

Edited August 28, 2014 by PolishDave

[RuntheDamnBall]

I heard it, just more excuse making for EJ and how it was mostly the other guys fault.

So you heard it, but weren't listening, and haven't learned a thing about how football is a team sport.

 

Don't worry, Landry Jones will be here soon with his bucketful of skills.

[The Big Cat]

I do not disagree with your assessment my issue is that you give credit to the Bills brain trust for their knowledge of what the development of EJ would be, but they didn't keep Fitz. Had Fitz been kept it would go a lot further into proving your point, I think. Replacing Fitz with Kolb shows a lack of awareness rather than the astuteness you are crediting them with.

 

Plus Buddy all but declared Fitz would be completing for a back up spot(in that recorded phone call), meaning they though who they drafted who be the starter, no?

 

But we also can't say for certain that Fitz was willing to play under those conditions. Can't blame him, really. He's earned significant starts for two teams since he left (assuming he'll be Week 1 starter in Houston, as appears to be the case)

 

I heard it, just more excuse making for EJ and how it was mostly the other guys fault.

 

If ever a poster gave the anti-EJ crowd a reason to reconsider their stance!

[RuntheDamnBall]

If ever a poster gave the anti-EJ crowd a reason to reconsider their stance!

Indeed.

[Captain Caveman]

But we also can't say for certain that Fitz was willing to play under those conditions. Can't blame him, really. He's earned significant starts for two teams since he left (assuming he'll be Week 1 starter in Houston, as appears to be the case)

 

Do you think Fitz was going to hold out? I agree that Fitz wanted to start, but I think he was also too smart to sit at home rather than make starter money and sit on the sidelines.

 

BTW - I am not second guessing the decision to let Fitz go, I just don't see how he really had a say in the manner, other than the threat of hold out.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Captain Caveman

[34-78-83]

I heard it, just more excuse making for EJ and how it was mostly the other guys fault.

No it was a play by play film breakdown done by a man who knows what he is looking at.

Some things are factual in this game.

It's not all open to opinion and conjecture.

[Delusional Bills Optimist]

The worst thing to happen to EJ was that the Bills were able to assemble this supporting cast around him so quickly. It seems to me that EJ was viewed as a high-ceiling talent that would need two plus years of experience to deliver. I bet the Bills were eying EJ's 3rd year as the "all in" year. But somehow, the roster was gutted in short order and a bunch of recent picks seem to be winners, and suddenly, what should've taken three years has taken two. Furthermore, Mr. Wilson passing and the impending ownership change has forced the current Bills management to push their chips in this year (Year 2), and not next (Year 3). Moreover, this is further complicated by EJ's missing most of camp and playing only 2/3 of the season last year. Instead of being in Year 2, EJ is two-thirds of the way through Year 1, and the Bills have built up Year 3 expectations. We've got a Year 3 team, and a Year .67 quarterback. All of the "This Is Our Time" talk is premature given EJ's arrested development, and it puts a lot of unfair pressure on him. The sad thing is, IF he does have the talent to make it as a quality starting quartrback in this league, he might be run out of town before he has a chance to prove it.

 

Full disclosure: I was not an EJ fan when we drafted him. I am an EJ fan to the same extent that I am a "fan" of every memeber of the Bills, i.e., I hope he tears things up. His highs are intriguing, his lows are maddening. I think it was obvious when he was drafted that he was not an Andrew Luck "straight-out-of-the-box-starter"-level talent. That said, this town has been waiting on a winner for going on 15 years. And it's tough when everything lines up except for the most important piece.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Delusional Bills Optimist

[The Big Cat]

Do you think Fitz was going to hold out? I agree that Fitz wanted to start, but I think he was also too smart to sit at home rather than make starter money and sit on the sidelines.

 

BTW - I am not second guessing the decision to let Fitz go, I just don't see how he really had a say in the manner, other than the threat of hold out.

 

I mean, I'm obviously envisioning the rosiest scenario possible, but I can't imagine it be too far fetched that the transitioning brass called Fitz in:

 

Ryan, you've been good for us, real good. But we gotta start thinking about the future, and the future doesn't include you. We'd love for you to stay and help the young guys out, but we'd as that you restructure first. And even if you take less money, there's a good chance you'll keep starting for us. Is this something you think you can do?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I mean, I'm obviously envisioning the rosiest scenario possible, but I can't imagine it be too far fetched that the transitioning brass called Fitz in:

 

Ryan, you've been good for us, real good. But we gotta start thinking about the future, and the future doesn't include you. We'd love for you to stay and help the young guys out, but we'd as that you restructure first. And even if you take less money, there's a good chance you'll keep starting for us. Is this something you think you can do?

 

Why? If they were going to pay Kolb anyway and basically keep Fitz salary cap hit there was no need to do this. If a team has a rookie QB and is on a rookie scale they could afford what a middling starter was making especially if they thought all the QBs in the draft were going to be projects. The problem is I am not sure they thought, as the post I was responding to suggested, they thought EJ was a project.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why? If they were going to pay Kolb anyway and basically keep Fitz salary cap hit there was no need to do this. If a team has a rookie QB and is on a rookie scale they could afford what a middling starter was making especially if they thought all the QBs in the draft were going to be projects. The problem is I am not sure they thought, as the post I was responding to suggested, they thought EJ was a project.

Of course they did, and they said so from the start. They have been saying it all along. They said it as of this week.

[The Big Cat]

Why? If they were going to pay Kolb anyway and basically keep Fitz salary cap hit there was no need to do this. If a team has a rookie QB and is on a rookie scale they could afford what a middling starter was making especially if they thought all the QBs in the draft were going to be projects. The problem is I am not sure they thought, as the post I was responding to suggested, they thought EJ was a project.

 

Unless this conversation occurred before Kolb entered into the equation. Which I'm assuming (in the universe where said conversation did actually happen) is the case,.

[BackInDaDay]

That's EXACTLY what I saw. A guy that's been coached to get the ball out on 3--and rightly so--that seems to be more comfortable hitting his short reads as opposed to reading from the deeper routes back (as most QBs are coached to do). If he can develop the habit of staying with his deep reads more often I think he'll get a lot better in what appears to be a short period of time.

if the line gives him 4 full seconds, or he can extend the play - as he did on that brilliant pass to the new guy from Tampa.. which.. by the way, is the kiss that should keep us coming back.. because it shows what he can do when he COMPETES!! - instead of working his program of do's and don'ts.. anyway.. the coaches are doing what they have to do, but i think because he really wants this to happen, they could have lightened up on him weeks ago. hey, what the hell do i know? i thought Losman was gonna come around, too.