Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 this organization is the definition of irrelevant. They havent won a playoff game since I was a Junior in high school. I am 36 years old now. A lot has changed, but what seems to happen when fans get fed up is a scapegoat, someone is shuffled off, bad decisions are blamed on that individual, the power-brokers (Littman and Overdorf) remain and Brandon gets a new title... and most of the fanbase buys in. Then it looks the same every year. Some promising things, but also too many gaping self-imposed wounds, poor coaching, and blown games. Top players leave. The big coup that took place a few years ago wasnt much to me. Whaley stepped in, who has been here for awhile, and Brandon basically went from CEO to CEO. I still refuse to believe this guy sits in an office looking at ticket invoices and just rubber stamps anything Whaley wants to do. The guy is out on the field every practice dressed in coaches garb, is front and center in the war room, you name it he is all over that side. We also have heard rumblings. Nix didnt do the Evans trade. Coaching staff mad at management figures for the training staff and such. Who knows what is going on. Things dont look good right now though. It appears there is unrest. The team looks like garbage. It seems very possible they could take a step back. Maybe they dont that would be great. If they do, I dont see any reason to maintain this status quo after spending $1 billion +. Teams like Tampa, Atlanta, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Denver, even the Jets can hit rock bottom, and turn into a competitor in a few short years, if not a year. How is it so complicated here? what is preventing it? It is not rocket science Sadly I can't disagree.
Jauronimo Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 this organization is the definition of irrelevant. They havent won a playoff game since I was a Junior in high school. I am 36 years old now. A lot has changed, but what seems to happen when fans get fed up is a scapegoat, someone is shuffled off, bad decisions are blamed on that individual, the power-brokers (Littman and Overdorf) remain and Brandon gets a new title... and most of the fanbase buys in. Then it looks the same every year. Some promising things, but also too many gaping self-imposed wounds, poor coaching, and blown games. Top players leave. The big coup that took place a few years ago wasnt much to me. Whaley stepped in, who has been here for awhile, and Brandon basically went from CEO to CEO. I still refuse to believe this guy sits in an office looking at ticket invoices and just rubber stamps anything Whaley wants to do. The guy is out on the field every practice dressed in coaches garb, is front and center in the war room, you name it he is all over that side. We also have heard rumblings. Nix didnt do the Evans trade. Coaching staff mad at management figures for the training staff and such. Who knows what is going on. Things dont look good right now though. It appears there is unrest. The team looks like garbage. It seems very possible they could take a step back. Maybe they dont that would be great. If they do, I dont see any reason to maintain this status quo after spending $1 billion +. Teams like Tampa, Atlanta, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Denver, even the Jets can hit rock bottom, and turn into a competitor in a few short years, if not a year. How is it so complicated here? what is preventing it? It is not rocket science This what TXBILLSFAN should be saying rather than discussing current culture, culture change, and to what degree Russ was involved in selecting EJ.
Lurker Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 over time, with better players and better stewardship, the team became great. If only TSW could follow the same path...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 this organization is the definition of irrelevant. They havent won a playoff game since I was a Junior in high school. I am 36 years old now. A lot has changed, but what seems to happen when fans get fed up is a scapegoat, someone is shuffled off, bad decisions are blamed on that individual, the power-brokers (Littman and Overdorf) remain and Brandon gets a new title... and most of the fanbase buys in. Then it looks the same every year. Some promising things, but also too many gaping self-imposed wounds, poor coaching, and blown games. Top players leave. The big coup that took place a few years ago wasnt much to me. Whaley stepped in, who has been here for awhile, and Brandon basically went from CEO to CEO. I still refuse to believe this guy sits in an office looking at ticket invoices and just rubber stamps anything Whaley wants to do. The guy is out on the field every practice dressed in coaches garb, is front and center in the war room, you name it he is all over that side. We also have heard rumblings. Nix didnt do the Evans trade. Coaching staff mad at management figures for the training staff and such. Who knows what is going on. Things dont look good right now though. It appears there is unrest. The team looks like garbage. It seems very possible they could take a step back. Maybe they dont that would be great. If they do, I dont see any reason to maintain this status quo after spending $1 billion +. Teams like Tampa, Atlanta, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Denver, even the Jets can hit rock bottom, and turn into a competitor in a few short years, if not a year. How is it so complicated here? what is preventing it? It is not rocket science Well said. I can't argue with any point you made CBF
Rico Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 this organization is the definition of irrelevant. They havent won a playoff game since I was a Junior in high school. I am 36 years old now. A lot has changed, but what seems to happen when fans get fed up is a scapegoat, someone is shuffled off, bad decisions are blamed on that individual, the power-brokers (Littman and Overdorf) remain and Brandon gets a new title... and most of the fanbase buys in. Then it looks the same every year. Some promising things, but also too many gaping self-imposed wounds, poor coaching, and blown games. Top players leave. The big coup that took place a few years ago wasnt much to me. Whaley stepped in, who has been here for awhile, and Brandon basically went from CEO to CEO. I still refuse to believe this guy sits in an office looking at ticket invoices and just rubber stamps anything Whaley wants to do. The guy is out on the field every practice dressed in coaches garb, is front and center in the war room, you name it he is all over that side. We also have heard rumblings. Nix didnt do the Evans trade. Coaching staff mad at management figures for the training staff and such. Who knows what is going on. Things dont look good right now though. It appears there is unrest. The team looks like garbage. It seems very possible they could take a step back. Maybe they dont that would be great. If they do, I dont see any reason to maintain this status quo after spending $1 billion +. Teams like Tampa, Atlanta, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Denver, even the Jets can hit rock bottom, and turn into a competitor in a few short years, if not a year. How is it so complicated here? what is preventing it? It is not rocket science I chalk it all up to the previous ownership... and can only hope that the new ownership does the right thing if nothing changes this year.
Best Player Available Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Screw analytics, this team needs a culture pathologist.
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 This what TXBILLSFAN should be saying rather than discussing current culture, culture change, and to what degree Russ was involved in selecting EJ. Not sure why changing an organization's culture is so hard to follow ? Either way, I do agree with what May Day 10 posted. Glad to see others feel the same way.
Jauronimo Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) Not sure why changing an organization's culture is so hard to follow ? Either way, I do agree with what May Day 10 posted. Glad to see others feel the same way. It would be easier to follow if you could describe said culture, explain whats wrong with it and why it needs to change, and demonstrate how Russ Brandon has preserved this culture. I don't know whats so hard to understand about that point which I've made repeatedly. Notice how May advanced a similar point but did not open it up to easy attacks by citing intangibles and muddying his point with nebulous terms like culture change. Edited August 27, 2014 by Jauronimo
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Changing culture is something that everyone claims has happened, after having won. Can a team's culture be changed? Sure. Does it ever follow a complete house-cleaning? Never.
May Day 10 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 This what TXBILLSFAN should be saying rather than discussing current culture, culture change, and to what degree Russ was involved in selecting EJ. "Culture change" is just an espn schlock jockey talking point. The fact that polled members of the nflpa hate buffalo as a destination is an indication major changes need to be made and a new luster put on the organization. Much like the sabres. For example. Contract disputes happen... but going against byrd's wishes, then letting him stew for a year. Then letting him leaving angry for nothing in return is not something that will occur under pegula.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 "Culture change" is just an espn schlock jockey talking point. The fact that polled members of the nflpa hate buffalo as a destination is an indication major changes need to be made and a new luster put on the organization. Much like the sabres. For example. Contract disputes happen... but going against byrd's wishes, then letting him stew for a year. Then letting him leaving angry for nothing in return is not something that will occur under pegula. I can see this.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 The fact that polled members of the nflpa hate buffalo as a destination is an indication major changes need to be made and a new luster put on the organization. Much like the sabres. I'm amazed that a single Bills fan would disagree with this statement, but the thread about the poll shows otherwise.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 "Culture change" is just an espn schlock jockey talking point. The fact that polled members of the nflpa hate buffalo as a destination is an indication major changes need to be made and a new luster put on the organization. Much like the sabres. For example. Contract disputes happen... but going against byrd's wishes, then letting him stew for a year. Then letting him leaving angry for nothing in return is not something that will occur under pegula. I've attempted to remain out of this conversation but couldn't resist. You are making some strong points May Day (and I agree with the culture thing being overrated). However on the flip side to use your exact example I think that we are seeing that change. They say that the new locker room is the "finest in the NFL." At least that is what one of the guys whose been around forever said last week. At worst it is high on the list. They had an opportunity to tag Byrd again which many (including myself wanted) even if it meant working out a trade. They felt that it was in their best interests to not be a place that drives a hard deal (see the Pats telling Mankins to take a pay cut or get traded). As we lose players like Byrd (or Stevie) and someone asks them about what it was like as a member of the Bills they will have positive things to say (except for w&l's).
Jauronimo Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 "Culture change" is just an espn schlock jockey talking point. The fact that polled members of the nflpa hate buffalo as a destination is an indication major changes need to be made and a new luster put on the organization. Much like the sabres. For example. Contract disputes happen... but going against byrd's wishes, then letting him stew for a year. Then letting him leaving angry for nothing in return is not something that will occur under pegula. That poll is a product of three factors, location, facilities, and record. If you want to put a new luster on the organization, move, improve your facilities, and/or win games. The team's location is always going to be a sticking point with certain players, and I hope that never changes unless its because Buffalo becomes the next Las Vegas or some ****. The facilities are improving, I guess. The last one needs to be addressed.
Rob's House Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Does this count as Godwin's law? 90% of everything attributed to Godwin's law doesn't count as Godwin's law.
thebandit27 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I've attempted to remain out of this conversation but couldn't resist. You are making some strong points May Day (and I agree with the culture thing being overrated). However on the flip side to use your exact example I think that we are seeing that change. They say that the new locker room is the "finest in the NFL." At least that is what one of the guys whose been around forever said last week. At worst it is high on the list. They had an opportunity to tag Byrd again which many (including myself wanted) even if it meant working out a trade. They felt that it was in their best interests to not be a place that drives a hard deal (see the Pats telling Mankins to take a pay cut or get traded). As we lose players like Byrd (or Stevie) and someone asks them about what it was like as a member of the Bills they will have positive things to say (except for w&l's). Ask Andy Levitre where he wishes he were playing right now. I mean, I'm sure he's glad he took the $$--he'd have been an idiot not to. I also know that he's not happy there, or so says one of my former cohorts that works with the team. There's something to be said for being a player-friendly organization. I'm curious since you've seen something of a "culture change" firsthand in NO: was there any definitive quantity that truly precipitated them becoming a perennial contender, outside of right place/right time with Drew Brees?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) Ask Andy Levitre where he wishes he were playing right now. I mean, I'm sure he's glad he took the $$--he'd have been an idiot not to. I also know that he's not happy there, or so says one of my former cohorts that works with the team. There's something to be said for being a player-friendly organization. I'm curious since you've seen something of a "culture change" firsthand in NO: was there any definitive quantity that truly precipitated them becoming a perennial contender, outside of right place/right time with Drew Brees? I'm sure that NoSaint will have some thoughts but Katrina had a lot to do with it. It really brought the whole city together with this "us against the world mentality." Obviously it coincided with Brees and Payton so that didn't hurt. They have the same people calling the shots that they had when there with 30,000 people in the building and when they were a laughingstock. They got a QB, a coach and took off. Edited August 27, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I think this seemingly endless debate comes down to whether you trust and believe that Brandon is the right person to make the changes necessary organizationally to create a consistent winner on and off the field. I don't think he is for a variety of reasons that I've tried in numerous threads and in way too many posts, apparently unsuccessfully, to communicate to all of you. In the end, the on the field product will be the ultimate measurement and the new owner the definitive judge and jury.
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) I'm sure that NoSaint will have some thoughts but Katrina had a lot to do with it. It really brought the whole city together with this "us against the world mentality." Obviously it coincided with Brees and Payton so that didn't hurt. They have the same people calling the shots that they had when there with 30,000 people in the building and when they were a laughingstock. They got a QB, a coach and took off. I'll generally agree. Benson was once upon a time the terrible owner you couldn't win with. Qb and coach lining up is big. What's tricky is the coach is a pretty big part of the "culture" but his play call on 3rd and goal down 3 with a minute left is far more important than whether he allows recliners in the locker room (ridding them being one of SPs claims to cultural change). It's tricky to weigh out. Another example -That gleason blocked punt being a perfect storm organizationally and for the fan base that had little to do with personalities hired but defined the team and city. Edited August 27, 2014 by NoSaint
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I'll generally agree. Benson was once upon a time the terrible owner you couldn't win with. Qb and coach lining up is big. What's tricky is the coach is a pretty big part of the "culture" but his play call on 3rd and goal down 3 with a minute left is far more important than whether he allows recliners in the locker room (ridding them being one of SPs claims to cultural change). It's tricky to weigh out. Another example -That gleason blocked punt being a perfect storm organizationally and for the fan base that had little to do with personalities hired but defined the team and city. Just to take it a step further I don't think that it is culture as much as identity. That Saints team played with a swagger. They believed that they could score every time that they touched the football. In addition, the leadership (Payton and Brees) are 2 EXTREMELY confident individuals. The onside kick to start the 2nd half of the Super Bowl was an example.
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