Turmoil brewing between Marrone and Whaley?

[The Big Cat]

See, that's funny.

 

I knew I'd get you at some point!

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm convinced (as you can tell in my posts), that if you want a fundamental culture change in this organization you need to start at the top. The carousel of GM's and HC's and OC's and DC's hasn't changed a damn thing.

 

Culture is the HARDEST thing to change in an organization, I don't see things being a whole lot better now as we sit 11 days from the opener than they were at the end of 2012 when RB was elevated.

The Bills of 84 and 85 were very likely the absolute worst in team history. Unbelievably bad and inept. Polian was hired as director of pro personnel in the summer of 84. He suffered, like Whaley, through bad seasons (albeit much much worse than Whaley), and then was promoted to the top job. They got better and better over a few seasons under his control, with much of the same front office, and especially Ralph, intact.

 

Not saying that Whaley is destined to be as good as Polian, but there was no immediate culture change, and over time, with better players and better stewardship, the team became great.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[Mike in Horseheads]

Haha. But I avoid this place after Bills losses or else I'd spend my day at work pounding my head on my desk.

The Atlanta game in Toronto last year was the worse I ever can remember, at one point the shout box crashed.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

The Bills of 84 and 85 were very likely the absolute worst in team history. Unbelievably bad and inept. Polian was hired as director of pro personnel in the summer of 84. He suffered, like Whaley, through bad seasons (albeit much much worse than Whaley), and then was promoted to the top job. They got better and better over a few seasons under his control, with much of the same front office, and especially Ralph, intact.

 

Not saying that Whaley is destined to be as good as Polian, but there was no immediate culture change, and over time, with better players and better stewardship, the team became great.

 

You don't get it. Every player, coach, & executive was amazing right away! Patience is for losers.

 

The Atlanta game in Toronto last year was the worse I ever can remember, at one point the shout box crashed.

 

Worse than the TB preseason game?

[Mike in Horseheads]

You don't get it. Every player, coach, & executive was amazing right away! Patience is for losers.

 

 

 

Worse than the TB preseason game?

LOL... oh yah! That was the game Stevie and Stone Hands Chandler snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Jauronimo]

I'm convinced (as you can tell in my posts), that if you want a fundamental culture change in this organization you need to start at the top. The carousel of GM's and HC's and OC's and DC's hasn't changed a damn thing.

 

Culture is the HARDEST thing to change in an organization, I don't see things being a whole lot better now as we sit 11 days from the opener than they were at the end of 2012 when RB was elevated.

How are you going to assess culture change from well outside the organization? What evidence have you seen for lack of culture change? Please describe the current culture of the organization while you're at it.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

For the life of me, I don't know precisely what the FO, including Nix, has done that is so egregiously wrong that a very vocal segment of the "fan" base thinks they should be ushered off the grounds immediately under the aegis of Blackrock security forces.

 

I think you mean Blackwater? Good lord.

[machine gun kelly]

The Bills of 84 and 85 were very likely the absolute worst in team history. Unbelievably bad and inept. Polian was hired as director of pro personnel in the summer of 84. He suffered, like Whaley, through bad seasons (albeit much much worse than Whaley), and then was promoted to the top job. They got better and better over a few seasons under his control, with much of the same front office, and especially Ralph, intact.

 

Not saying that Whaley is destined to be as good as Polian, but there was no imediate culture change, and over time, with better players and better stewardship, the team became great.

 

KTD - Good post. I don't have an opinion on Marrone and his staff yet. Pettine and i believe Schwartz were good pick ups. As far as Whaley, i agree with this assessment as Whaley should turn out to be decent.

[Jauronimo]

I think you mean Blackwater? Good lord.

You don't think prominent asset managers employ security guards?

[bananathumb]

Can't wait until halftime during the Bears game, losing 31-0, and Whaley runs down to the field, picks up Hackett and whips Marrone about the head with his legs.

[yungmack]

I think you mean Blackwater? Good lord.

Well, Blackrock does have security, but yes, I meant Blackwater. The family's old bailiwick slipped in there somehow.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

LOL... oh yah! That was the game Stevie and Stone Hands Chandler snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Nope that was EJs fault.... Better passes and they wouldn't have fumbled.

 

Pay attention man

 

Can't wait until halftime during the Bears game, losing 31-0, and Whaley runs down to the field, picks up Hackett and whips Marrone about the head with his legs.

 

Whether they suck or not this year, they are going to beat the bears.

[GA BILLS FAN]

 

How are you going to assess culture change from well outside the organization? What evidence have you seen for lack of culture change? Please describe the current culture of the organization while you're at it.

Of course I can't prove it hasn't changed, no more than you can prove it has changed.

 

A big part of this thread and a few other threads has been centered around the QB situation on this team and how dire it appears to be, both with a struggling starter and his backups. When I read through the posts, I found it odd that so many people are quick to try and blame Nix, or they want to get rid of Hackett or get rid of Marrone or even fire Whaley, yet, they are so adamantly defending Brandon as if he has nothing to do with what's happened.

 

I'd be curious to see how many different OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's we've had in this organization during this playoff drought. But, I guess we can keep replacing OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's and hope for a different outcome over the next 14 years.

Edited August 27, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[Jauronimo]

Of course I can't prove it hasn't changed, no more than you can prove it has changed.

 

A big part of this thread and a few other threads has been centered around the QB situation on this team and how dire it appears to be, both with a struggling starter and his backups. When I read through the posts, I found it odd that so many people are quick to try and blame Nix, or they want to get rid of Hackett or get rid of Marrone or even fire Whaley, yet, they are so adamantly defending Brandon as if he has nothing to do with what's happened.

 

I'd be curious to see how many different OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's we've had in this organization during this playoff drought. But, I guess we can keep replacing OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's and hope for a different outcome over the next 14 years.

Then why was culture change the crux of your point if you can't even begin to discuss how or if it has changed?

[GA BILLS FAN]

 

Then why was culture change the crux of your point if you can't even begin to discuss how or if it has changed?

Because if you want to stop the perpetual losing that has taken place, you need to change the culture that supports it. Having worked in several large corporations, I've seen first hand how easy it is for employees to become complacent or accept the status quo, I've seen how these same corporations have "turned it around" when a new CEO comes in.

 

Often times it is impossible for an insider to change the culture.

Edited August 27, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[Jauronimo]

Because if you want to stop the perpetual losing that has taken place, you need to change the culture that supports it. Having worked in several large corporations, I've seen first hand how easy it is for employees to become complacent or accept the status quo, I've seen how these same corporations have "turned it around" when a new CEO comes in.

 

Often times it is impossible for an insider to change the culture.

But if you can't describe the current culture and cannot assess how it has changed over the years why on earth would you declare that the culture needs to change? Is winning a proxy for culture?

 

Seems to me that your point can be more accurately stated as "we need to win and I want Russ fired for my own speculative reasons" and thats fine. Just stop muddling the point with discussion of culture change and Russ' role.

[GA BILLS FAN]

But if you can't describe the current culture and cannot assess how it has changed over the years why on earth would you declare that the culture needs to change? Is winning a proxy for culture?

 

Seems to me that your point can be more accurately stated as "we need to win and I want Russ fired for my own speculative reasons" and thats fine. Just stop muddling the point with discussion of culture change and Russ' role.

 

 

TX BILLS FAN:

Of course I want the team to win, and in this situation consistently winning would be a proxy for a changed culture and is the the best measurement of success for a sports team.

 

What I'm suggesting is the way to get there is not by constantly changing our OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's while leaving the rest of the leadership of this organization in tact and hoping things on the field change. Aren't you sick of the same cycle we've been repeating every 3 years since 1999 ?

 

I don't doubt that Brandon wants to win and he wants to build a winning culture within the organization. I think his heart is in the right place. My issue with him is that he is either unqualified to accomplish that or incapable of implementing it given he's been a part of this organization for so long.

 

Sometimes organizations need new blood in order to evolve and change for the better.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN

[PlayoffsPlease]

Of course I want the team to win, and in this situation consistently winning would be a proxy for a changed culture and is the the best measurement of success for a sports team.

 

What I'm suggesting is the way to get there is not by constantly changing our OC's, DC's, HC's and GM's while leaving the rest of the leadership of this organization in tact and hoping things on the field change. Aren't you sick of the same cycle we've been repeating every 3 years since 1999 ?

 

I don't doubt that Brandon wants to win and he wants to build a winning culture within the organization. I think his heart is in the right place. My issue with him is that he is either unqualified to accomplish that or incapable of implementing it given he's been a part of this organization for so long.

 

Sometimes organizations need new blood in order to evolve and change for the better.

obviously!

[Mike in Horseheads]

Nope that was EJs fault.... Better passes and they wouldn't have fumbled.

 

Pay attention man

Opppss Sorry I forgot every Bills loss is EJ's, Marrones, Hackett, Whaley, Brandon, Ralph or Pegulas (just planning ahead) fault in no particular order.

[May Day 10]

this organization is the definition of irrelevant. They havent won a playoff game since I was a Junior in high school. I am 36 years old now. A lot has changed, but what seems to happen when fans get fed up is a scapegoat, someone is shuffled off, bad decisions are blamed on that individual, the power-brokers (Littman and Overdorf) remain and Brandon gets a new title... and most of the fanbase buys in. Then it looks the same every year. Some promising things, but also too many gaping self-imposed wounds, poor coaching, and blown games. Top players leave.

 

The big coup that took place a few years ago wasnt much to me. Whaley stepped in, who has been here for awhile, and Brandon basically went from CEO to CEO. I still refuse to believe this guy sits in an office looking at ticket invoices and just rubber stamps anything Whaley wants to do. The guy is out on the field every practice dressed in coaches garb, is front and center in the war room, you name it he is all over that side. We also have heard rumblings. Nix didnt do the Evans trade. Coaching staff mad at management figures for the training staff and such.

 

Who knows what is going on. Things dont look good right now though. It appears there is unrest. The team looks like garbage. It seems very possible they could take a step back. Maybe they dont that would be great. If they do, I dont see any reason to maintain this status quo after spending $1 billion +. Teams like Tampa, Atlanta, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Denver, even the Jets can hit rock bottom, and turn into a competitor in a few short years, if not a year. How is it so complicated here? what is preventing it? It is not rocket science