Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 LOL. "Oh the audacity to compare Manuel to Jimbo!" It's a fair comparison as it points to the EXTREME rarity for ANY rookie to come into the league and take it by storm. And Kelly had two years of pro ball under his belt under one of the most innovative offensive minds in the game to boot. Not to mention four years with Howard Schnellenberger at Miami. If nothing else the comparison provides a little perspective. GO BILLS!!! That's all well and good. But what does all this fancy "perspective" do to help those who "know" EJ is a bust, sucks, will never be better and is the reason for missing the playoffs for the past 14 years???? Huh? Tell me!!
Boatdrinks Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Whats the point of this? Different era, completely different game when Kelly was playing. While it should be acknowledged that the game has changed, and teams with established QB's throw a lot more than they did in the Kelly era, it can't be roundly dismissed. The OP isn't comparing EjM 's numbers with Sonny Jurgenson's . It is still a relevant comparison , even with rules changes that have opened up the passing game. No one is saying that EJM is going to the hall of fame or even that he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Kelly. Just that the numbers are comparable and that some of us need to back off the ledge. It's interesting that with fewer completions, Kelly threw for a good bit more yardage, for example. I'd like to know how many of theses passes were caught by WRs and TEs as opposed to RB's. I doubt JK was as fond of the check down as EJM. So there are things to be gleaned from the data, and we are not comparing today's QB'S to guys that wore leather helmets. There is much more to QB'S play than just stats, and EJM has a lot to learn and prove. But he's really just getting started as a pro and didn't play 3 seasons in another league after college. The comparison is not pointless, and is actually more relevant than many threads of discussion on this board, such as ridiculous trade scenarios that have zero chance of happening in the NFL, or lamenting departed players as if the Bills were the only team in the league that has to deal with free agency.
K-9 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 That's all well and good. But what does all this fancy "perspective" do to help those who "know" EJ is a bust, sucks, will never be better and is the reason for missing the playoffs for the past 14 years???? Huh? Tell me!! LOL. Those who pronounce him a bust and blame him for all our ills don't need help anyway. They transcend help. Indeed, they are beyond it. GO BILLS!!!
mitchmurraydowntown Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Funny that Jimbo called out the Bills QB's today, I guess he was mad that EJ had a better 10 first game sample.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Bills' Marrone said Manuel won't be a franchise guy overnight. Marrone was asked where his concern level is with Manuel, “We have to have people around him playing well, there’s no doubt about that. There are things that go on that are very difficult to see, sometimes people aren’t where they should be and it’s the same old story, when you win he gets too much credit and when you lose, he gets too much of the blame.” Marrone added, “We’re going to progress with him, he’s not going to turn around and be a franchise guy overnight, that doesn’t happen often in this league, we’re going to work with him, we’re going to stick with him, I’m going to support him 110 percent and we’re going to get him better.” When it comes to Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis Marrone said, “Either they have to play better or we have to look to see if there’s someone that can better at that position. If we feel at the end of the day that it’s not good enough to win with, and we haven’t seen that yet, either you put a lot of work into those guys and get them better, or you have to upgrade that position some other way.” Edited August 25, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
John from Riverside Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Right... Lets compare a guy who is lost and was tabbed as having issues coming out of college to a HOF QB. Wow.... While I am also not keen on comparing EJ to Kelly (mostly because Kelly came in after already playing pro ball.....Kelly's numbers SHOULD be better....it is interesting that they are not) But your takes are equally if not more so short sited.......you have absolutely no room to talk
Kelly the Dog Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Bills' Marrone said Manuel won't be a franchise guy overnight. I really don't get it. Why do they have to slow cook these things? Isn't that why they invented the microwave? Just zap it and lets get on with it. It tastes way better that way anyway.
Ted William's frozen head Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I was curious how much better Kelly's 10 games were vs EJs. Jim Kelly: Age 26 - 3 wins 7 losses, 174/284 61.27%, 2200 yards, 13 tds, 12 ints, 27 rushes 126 yards 0 tds EJ Manuel: Age 23 - 4 wins 6 losses, 180/306 58.82%, 1972 yards, 11 tds, 9 ints, 53 rushes 186 yards 2 tds Send EJ back in a time machine, and have him play behind Kellys line,and with Kelly's coaching staff.'
KOKBILLS Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Thank God there was no internet in 1986 Bingo! Edited August 25, 2014 by KOKBILLS
BADOLBILZ Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I was curious how much better Kelly's 10 games were vs EJs. Jim Kelly: Age 26 - 3 wins 7 losses, 174/284 61.27%, 2200 yards, 13 tds, 12 ints, 27 rushes 126 yards 0 tds EJ Manuel: Age 23 - 4 wins 6 losses, 180/306 58.82%, 1972 yards, 11 tds, 9 ints, 53 rushes 186 yards 2 tds EJ's comparable is Trent Edwards not JP. They share far more traits. Improvement halts when teams get tape of what you can't do and force you to do it. The league is starting to get a library on EJ now and IMO that is part of the reason for his struggles this preseason. He's gotta prove he can get over the top of a defense AND that he is accurate enough to sustain long drives with accurate short passes that can be turned into bigger plays. To date defensive coordinators have their pick and in the meantime can focus on run defense.
BillsPride12 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Whats the point of this? Different era, completely different game when Kelly was playing. Bingo. I was just reading a new book that's out about the Bills Super Bowl Years called Second to None(excellent read by the way for any Die Hard Bills Fan) and it talked about how when Kelly arrived his confidence and swagger completely changed the attitude of that team. From Day one we knew we had our franchise QB regardless of what the stats say. As far as the stats, people who are trying to say there isn't a big difference between todays game and 1986 are way off. Rules back then did not favor qb's and wr's the way they do now. They are getting to the point where they are making it impossible for team's to play defense. Teams also ran the ball alot more back then. I'm actually not surprised about Kelly's stats not looking impressive back then in his early years but believe me we knew we had our guy then. Can't say the same about right now.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) EJ's comparable is Trent Edwards not JP. They share far more traits. Improvement halts when teams get tape of what you can't do and force you to do it. The league is starting to get a library on EJ now and IMO that is part of the reason for his struggles this preseason. He's gotta prove he can get over the top of a defense AND that he is accurate enough to sustain long drives with accurate short passes that can be turned into bigger plays. To date defensive coordinators have their pick and in the meantime can focus on run defense. Yeah, teams have studied film on EJ and game planned the Bills accordingly this preseason. :lol: If that were really true, teams would be taking away the short stuff and forcing EJ to beat them down field. Edited August 25, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
Billsguy Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I was curious how much better Kelly's 10 games were vs EJs. Jim Kelly: Age 26 - 3 wins 7 losses, 174/284 61.27%, 2200 yards, 13 tds, 12 ints, 27 rushes 126 yards 0 tds EJ Manuel: Age 23 - 4 wins 6 losses, 180/306 58.82%, 1972 yards, 11 tds, 9 ints, 53 rushes 186 yards 2 tds Irrelevant. Different times, different circumstances. How would Abraham Lincoln have handled Viet Nam? Pointless.
Dean Cain Posted August 25, 2014 Author Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) EJ's comparable is Trent Edwards not JP. They share far more traits. Improvement halts when teams get tape of what you can't do and force you to do it. The league is starting to get a library on EJ now and IMO that is part of the reason for his struggles this preseason. He's gotta prove he can get over the top of a defense AND that he is accurate enough to sustain long drives with accurate short passes that can be turned into bigger plays. To date defensive coordinators have their pick and in the meantime can focus on run defense. Trent Edwards: 5 wins 5 losses, 151/269 56.13%, 1630 yds, 7 tds, 8 ints, 14 rushes 49 yards 0 tds. Edited August 25, 2014 by Dean Cain
Kelly the Dog Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 EJ's comparable is Trent Edwards not JP. They share far more traits. Improvement halts when teams get tape of what you can't do and force you to do it. The league is starting to get a library on EJ now and IMO that is part of the reason for his struggles this preseason. He's gotta prove he can get over the top of a defense AND that he is accurate enough to sustain long drives with accurate short passes that can be turned into bigger plays. To date defensive coordinators have their pick and in the meantime can focus on run defense. Don't see the comparison one bit. EJ is bigger, stronger, a better runner, a better arm, and has trouble making quick decisions and getting the ball out accurately. Trent's entire repertoire of top level skills was his ability to read defenses pre-snap, drop back, make quick decisions and throw good hard accurate short passes. He struggled with everything else.
pjp545 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I revert to the eye test. I saw Kelly's first ten games, I saw EJ's first ten games. I saw a swagger and I saw indeciveness. Guess which was which.
Big Turk Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Whats the point of this? Different era, completely different game when Kelly was playing. True, but Kelly also had a few years more experience playing in the USFL
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