C.Biscuit97 Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Different league back then. The average of the top-20 QBs back then was around 3,200 yards. The average of the top-20 QBs last season was over 4,100 yards, nearly 1,000 yards more. Apples to oranges. It's also a lot easier to throw TDs in this era where the league has done everything it can to enhance the passing game. Since it was a different, I assume that most good Qbs threw more ints than tds? Because Kelly did that in his 3rd NFL seAson (5th pro season).
QCity Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Different league back then. The average of the top-20 QBs back then was around 3,200 yards. The average of the top-20 QBs last season was over 4,100 yards, nearly 1,000 yards more. Apples to oranges. It's also a lot easier to throw TDs in this era where the league has done everything it can to enhance the passing game. ^^ Also I'll throw this in: Kelly threw for 3,593 yards in his first NFL season, that was good for 6th in the league. If EJ stayed healthy (a big if) he was on a pace to throw for 3,155 yards, that would be 21st in today's game. Does that stat sufficiently highlight the difference between eras? And the difference between QBs?
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) ^^ Also I'll throw this in: Kelly threw for 3,593 yards in his first NFL season, that was good for 6th in the league. If EJ stayed healthy (a big if) he was on a pace to throw for 3,155 yards, that would be 21st in today's game. Does that stat sufficiently highlight the difference between eras? And the difference between QBs? And again, Kelly wasn't a fresh out of college rookie. He had 2 pro seasons facing very good competition. Also, that projected total for EJ would have been 200 less than Russell Wilson has last year. Edited August 26, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
QCity Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Since it was a different, I assume that most good Qbs threw more ints than tds? Because Kelly did that in his 3rd NFL seAson (5th pro season). The lack a throwing TD's made the gap much narrower. Terry Bradshaw only threw 2 more TDs than INTs over a 14 year career.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 The lack a throwing TD's made the gap much narrower. Terry Bradshaw only threw 2 more TDs than INTs over a 14 year career. Well now you're going back to 70s. And there are plenty of people who think Bradshaw was overrated. I agree the league has helped Qbs now. But I don't know why the comparison isn't valid. No one is saying EJ will be Kelly. But he had similar numbers to EJ after 10 games, and he was 3 years older.
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I just want the season to start and see the REAL play calling... Not the vanilla fluff stuff we've been watching in preseason... If EJ comes out of the gate hot, all this second guessing becomes "I told you so"!!!!!
QCity Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 Well now you're going back to 70s. And there are plenty of people who think Bradshaw was overrated. I agree the league has helped Qbs now. But I don't know why the comparison isn't valid. No one is saying EJ will be Kelly. But he had similar numbers to EJ after 10 games, and he was 3 years older. I agree that Bradshaw was overrated. I've just explained to you why the comparison isn't valid. Kelly was 6th in the NFL in passing yards. 8th in passer rating. He was considered for the Pro Bowl. EJ would have been 21st in yards, and farther down the list in rating. If you want to say Kelly wasn't a rookie because of his USFL stint, then I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea why you brought Wilson into the argument? I saw Kelly throw live in 86, there really was no comparison to EJ. Honestly, it's silly to even argue it. I'll bow out and let you get the last word in, I shouldn't have started a back-and-forth on this!
Homey D. Clown Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I can't facepalm any longer from what I read on this board, I'm starting to get an indentation, and that's just not a good look for me.
Dean Cain Posted August 26, 2014 Author Posted August 26, 2014 Different league back then. The average of the top-20 QBs back then was around 3,200 yards. The average of the top-20 QBs last season was over 4,100 yards, nearly 1,000 yards more. Apples to oranges. It's also a lot easier to throw TDs in this era where the league has done everything it can to enhance the passing game. I pulled the top 20 stats and I beg to differ the difference is as vast as you proclaim. The season passing yards are 3228.2 for 1986 versus 3976.8 for 2013 a difference of 748.6 yards. Take into account the QBs were less protected and took more hits, and the main difference can be attributed to the average QB in 1986 playing 14.7 games vs 15.6 games in 2013. Also the Games Started is 14.1 to 15.5. Getting to play an extra 1.5 games can further explain this statiscal difference. Have yards gone up? Marginally. Has the game changed? No. Clearly the numbers show the difference is much less than some on TBD would like to admit. This is not like comparing 1986 to 1959. The modern vertical NFL pass offense came about in the mid to late 1970s and guys like Dan Fouts really revolutionized the game. Top 20 QBs 1986 Games 14.7, Games Started 14.1, 254.4 completions, 447.0 attempts, 56.9% completion %, 3,228.2 yards, 18.3 tds, 16.6 ints, sacked 33.4 times, 254.9 yards Top 20 QBs 2013 Games 15.6, Games Started 15.5, 347.8 completions, 558.3 attempts, 62.3% completion %, 3,976.8 yards, 25.7 tds, 14.9 ints, sacked 37.9 times, 259.2 yards
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I'll wait until EJ starts calling the Offensive plays like Kelly did before I make the comparison
26CornerBlitz Posted August 26, 2014 Posted August 26, 2014 I'll wait until EJ starts calling the Offensive plays like Kelly did before I make the comparison Didn't happen until later with Kelly.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I pulled the top 20 stats and I beg to differ the difference is as vast as you proclaim. The season passing yards are 3228.2 for 1986 versus 3976.8 for 2013 a difference of 748.6 yards. Take into account the QBs were less protected and took more hits, and the main difference can be attributed to the average QB in 1986 playing 14.7 games vs 15.6 games in 2013. Also the Games Started is 14.1 to 15.5. Getting to play an extra 1.5 games can further explain this statiscal difference. Have yards gone up? Marginally. Has the game changed? No. Clearly the numbers show the difference is much less than some on TBD would like to admit. This is not like comparing 1986 to 1959. The modern vertical NFL pass offense came about in the mid to late 1970s and guys like Dan Fouts really revolutionized the game. Top 20 QBs 1986 Games 14.7, Games Started 14.1, 254.4 completions, 447.0 attempts, 56.9% completion %, 3,228.2 yards, 18.3 tds, 16.6 ints, sacked 33.4 times, 254.9 yards Top 20 QBs 2013 Games 15.6, Games Started 15.5, 347.8 completions, 558.3 attempts, 62.3% completion %, 3,976.8 yards, 25.7 tds, 14.9 ints, sacked 37.9 times, 259.2 yards That's interesting but your stats don't support your direct comparison of the players. As noted by others, Kelly was producing at a "closer to exceptional" level relative to the era and yet you are trying to compare apples to apples.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I revert to the eye test. I saw Kelly's first ten games, I saw EJ's first ten games. I saw a swagger and I saw indeciveness. Guess which was which. So basically we're going to ignore evidence in favor of BS like "the eye test." The honesty is refreshing, at least.
Agent 91 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Four Pro Bowlers and/or All Pros and a fifth in Davis that deserved it as well. That line made it possible for Marchibroda to spread defenses and have at it. I doubt we'll ever see the likes of a group like that again. GO BILLS!!! You guys and this mythical line. I wanna know more. It was the skycap who told me about the lines of the day and I didnt believe him. He told me about videos on youtube and I felt like man... Those holes are massive. I would give so much to build something like that again. With Marrone being a "line guru". You would expect a rebirth. The same issues Teddy Bridgewater had coming from Louisville? I wish we would have waited and got Bridgewater. That guy has pinpoint accuracy. I dont care what people say. What I have seen with my own eyes tells the tale. I was just as skeptical until I saw what this man is capable of. I really don't get it. Why do they have to slow cook these things? Isn't that why they invented the microwave? Just zap it and lets get on with it. It tastes way better that way anyway. Let me try to field this one... I think the slow cook was the plan. They thought Kolb was gonna be the short term while they molded EJ. They wanted to bring him along slowly. Almost like Jax is trying to force upon Bortles. They didnt plan on EJ having to go live this early. The problem is, like many others said, they didnt bring in anyone to cary out the plan after Kolb went down. I dont think we were supposed to see EJ yet. So that being the plan. The execuion was poor and this is the result
Agent 91 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Wait, in another thread several posted that the OL and QB play are independent. So you meant to say that a good OL can help a QB? Eureka. Egad man, What a revelation
Agent 91 Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Different league back then. The average of the top-20 QBs back then was around 3,200 yards. The average of the top-20 QBs last season was over 4,100 yards, nearly 1,000 yards more. Apples to oranges. It's also a lot easier to throw TDs in this era where the league has done everything it can to enhance the passing game. How about you add in the fact that we had 2 near 1000 yard RUSHING backs. You can spin it any way you want. But when did Kelly play in a run first offense? I'll wait until EJ starts calling the Offensive plays like Kelly did before I make the comparison You havent yet heard of "The E Gun"
Delete This Account Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I respect you for coming here but man, you are on a EJ crusade. Are you and Tim Graham high fiving behind the scenes celebrating who called a 23 year old qb a bust first? I'm only speaking for myself but I like my writers to be objective and my reporter to report facts. For whatever reason, sports journalism has lost a lot if professionalism over the years. We have a bunch of writers who want to be famous. I miss the days of Allen Wilson and Larry Felser. odd that my objectiveness, based on everything that i've seen so far regarding the quarterback seems to be in conflict with your objectiveness. as for Larry, i do believe that there were more than a few times in his career during which he assessed a player and came to the conclusion that that player had not yet stacked up to the NFL measure. all writers want to be famous. why else do you think we'd get into this profession? certainly not the hours. or the pay. or the perennial losing. jw Edited August 29, 2014 by john wawrow
Solomon Grundy Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 You guys and this mythical line. I wanna know more. It was the skycap who told me about the lines of the day and I didnt believe him. He told me about videos on youtube and I felt like man... Those holes are massive. I would give so much to build something like that again. With Marrone being a "line guru". You would expect a rebirth. I wish we would have waited and got Bridgewater. That guy has pinpoint accuracy. I dont care what people say. What I have seen with my own eyes tells the tale. I was just as skeptical until I saw what this man is capable of. Let me try to field this one... I think the slow cook was the plan. They thought Kolb was gonna be the short term while they molded EJ. They wanted to bring him along slowly. Almost like Jax is trying to force upon Bortles. They didnt plan on EJ having to go live this early. The problem is, like many others said, they didnt bring in anyone to cary out the plan after Kolb went down. I dont think we were supposed to see EJ yet. So that being the plan. The execuion was poor and this is the result Welcome aboard!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 odd that my objectiveness, based on everything that i've seen so far regarding the quarterback seems to be in conflict with your objectiveness. as for Larry, i do believe that there were more than a few times in his career during which he assessed a player and came to the conclusion that that player had not yet stacked up to the NFL measure. all writers want to be famous. why else do you think we'd get into this profession? certainly not the hours. or the pay. or the perennial losing. jw I appreciate the response. Sorry if I came across snarky. My thoughts are we don't know how a young qb will progress. But it seems like guys like yourself and Graham seem to delight in EJ struggling (a lot of snarky twitter comments). Jmo. I also see far too many writers not take accountability when they are wrong. Jerry Sullivan trashed Mario for a year and then he was one of the best des in football last year. Not one I was wrong column. It seems like the profession has become one where you can say anything you wAnt and then hide behind a computer screen. It could be a reason why no local media ever breaks a Bills story. That said, you do see like a stand up guy. It would be nice if you gave the kid somewhat of a chance. Because if I was in EJ's shoes for the Tim Graham story, I probably would have punch him in the face. Jmo.
H2o Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 For all you EJ doubters, he's closer to Kelly thru 10 games, than Losman. At least Losman could throw a good looking 50 yard pass to Lee Evans every now and again. How many of those have we seen EJ throw to any WR?
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