RyanC883 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Goodwin should be use to BOOS the way the Longhorns played his senior year --- I'm actually feeling sorry for the guy getting beat up on twitter -- he's young and will learn in time I don't feel sorry for him at all. He's not a "kid." Calling out fans like that is classless. Esp. from a backup. I think the recent decades performances have warranted a good solid booing from the fans perspectives. I think that anyone that pays the price of the ticket has the right to stand and cheer or in this case jeer their team. Look at it this way. If I performed as poorly in my job as the Bills have done for the past decade where would I be? Unemployed. I would receive a verbal warning that my performance was sub standard, then a written warning, then an official write up, then a final write up, then termination. It's up to me to do a good job, not my boss, not my coworkers, but ME. My issue with Goodwin is he questioned the loyalty of the fans. He called us bandwagon fans. Goodwin didn't have a bad performance, but his team did. He is a part of that team. If anyone on that team (other than the defense) can look at the scoreboard and say that they did a good job then they are lying to themselves plain and simple. Now, back to the bandwagon fans. It'd be nice to see the Bills have some bandwagon fans because that would mean the team is winning. Also it would be nice because merchandise sales would go up, ticket sales would go up, there would be more fans at away games. Winning=win/win for all involved players and fans. Called booing fans bandwagon fans. oh, that's kind of funny actually, since....as you said, we don't have any!
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Fair enough. And I can easily understand and appreciate the logic. I just don't agree with it. At all. But that's okay. Social media, and stuff like twitter, allow fans an insight into players personal lives and feelings more than ever. Some people love Twitter, and some hate it and some just don't get it. My problem is that, like a lot of stuff, the general public is not willing to do a fair trade off. They only want good stuff to happen to them. They are unwilling to take the good with the bad, and then decide, after seeing both sides, if it is worth it or not. Fans only want to see players say great stuff about them on Twitter. And always be so cool and friendly. But they are just people like everyone else. And you're going to get some unflattering stuff when you get a peek into people's heads and private lives. Goodwin got pissed when some people expressed their very public opinion by booing in a preseason game, and he went to his outlet, in this case twitter, to voice his displeasure. He wasn't speaking for the team or the league. He was pissed about the booing and he called people out on his platform. And, as usual, people IMO overreact. They don't want to take the downside of getting into someone's feelings at a certain time and moment, which is what twitter is. Goodwin isn't a product. He's a person. There's a segment of the fan base that thinks their ticket entitles them to some form of ownership over the players. It's simply not the case. That's not everyone that booed, but there's clearly a segment.
disco Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Goodwin isn't a product. He's a person. There's a segment of the fan base that thinks their ticket entitles them to some form of ownership over the players. It's simply not the case. That's not everyone that booed, but there's clearly a segment. Fair enough. And I can easily understand and appreciate the logic. I just don't agree with it. At all. But that's okay. Social media, and stuff like twitter, allow fans an insight into players personal lives and feelings more than ever. Some people love Twitter, and some hate it and some just don't get it. My problem is that, like a lot of stuff, the general public is not willing to do a fair trade off. They only want good stuff to happen to them. They are unwilling to take the good with the bad, and then decide, after seeing both sides, if it is worth it or not. Fans only want to see players say great stuff about them on Twitter. And always be so cool and friendly. But they are just people like everyone else. And you're going to get some unflattering stuff when you get a peek into people's heads and private lives. Goodwin got pissed when some people expressed their very public opinion by booing in a preseason game, and he went to his outlet, in this case twitter, to voice his displeasure. He wasn't speaking for the team or the league. He was pissed about the booing and he called people out on his platform. And, as usual, people IMO overreact. They don't want to take the downside of getting into someone's feelings at a certain time and moment, which is what twitter is. It's more complicated than that. Twitter is an extension of media, and all players have contractual obligations to represent their brand as desired by the team in the media. You can bet you will not see Goodwin Tweeting again in any negative fashion about Bills fans, including booing. Edited August 25, 2014 by disco
Kelly the Dog Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 It's more complicated than that. Twitter is an extension of media, and all players have contractual obligations to represent their brand as desired by the team in the media. You can bet you will not see Goodwin Tweeting again in any negative fashion about Bills fans, including booing. Because ultimately he will decide that it wasn't worth it. Unless he's a moron like Dante Hitler which I would bet anything he isn't. The Bills PR or GM or coaches will probably say to him it's not wise to get in pissy wars with fans on the Internet. Everyone knows that. Except all of us.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 It's more complicated than that. Twitter is an extension of media, and all players have contractual obligations to represent their brand as desired by the team in the media. You can bet you will not see Goodwin Tweeting again in any negative fashion about Bills fans, including booing. I don't think Kelly or I are saying Goodwin should get into it with fans. Truly, I'm surprised he hasn't backed off the comments. We've both said several times he was silly for getting into it. Instead I think we both feel like there is a bit of a weird double standard when you really hash out the reactions of many in this thread. The "how dare he question me for calling him out" reaction.
disco Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I don't think Kelly or I are saying Goodwin should get into it with fans. Truly, I'm surprised he hasn't backed off the comments. We've both said several times he was silly for getting into it. Instead I think we both feel like there is a bit of a weird double standard when you really hash out the reactions of many in this thread. The "how dare he question me for calling him out" reaction. Here's an equivalent. You own a restaurant. You've got bad service, and people start leaving negative comments on Yelp. In response, you Tweet "I don't think they should be leaving bad comments about our service. They should appreciate how hard we're working." Yes, you can say it...but like I said earlier, businesses shouldn't complain about their customers, especially loyal ones.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Here's an equivalent. You own a restaurant. You've got bad service, and people start leaving negative comments on Yelp. In response, you Tweet "I don't think they should be leaving bad comments about our service. They should appreciate how hard we're working." Yes, you can say it...but like I said earlier, businesses shouldn't complain about their customers, especially loyal ones. Not really an equivalent.... Although I imagine that many of those booing a preseason game could probably be a handful in a restaurant setting too. Thinking out loud-- on the token of loyalty and best customers - I'd be curious to see what percentage of the boos came from season ticket holders vs people that got into a preseason game on the cheap and thought they were owed a true game experience. Edited August 25, 2014 by NoSaint
ndirish1978 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Goodwin isn't a product. He's a person. There's a segment of the fan base that thinks their ticket entitles them to some form of ownership over the players. It's simply not the case. That's not everyone that booed, but there's clearly a segment. This statement is completely incorrect in multiple parts. Part I- Goodwin was booed for his part in a horrible half of football. There is no form of "ownership" exercised in booing here. People pay money to be entertained and they were not entertained, they were frustrated at seeing a team play with no skill, pride or passion. Part II- Professional athletes are people in their free time and individual corporations when working. An athlete's twitter is part of their "brand" regardless of what you believe. Does Goodwin have 39k followers because he's a nice guy? No, he has them because he is a football player. Want proof, look at his banner image and his bio info. To say an athlete has a right to say whatever they want on twitter without a backlash is an outmoded way of thinking. If he wanted his comments to be private, he could have used a private twitter account. No, he said what he said because he wanted to hear people suck up and say they never booed and they support him. In short, he had his feelings hurt and he turned to one of the places in the planet that will absolutely tear you apart and mock you when you ask for sympathy. How do the people who booed assume "ownership" over players for dumping on a player who dumped on them?
stony Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 What is your opinion on grown men who pay money to attend games played by other grown men even though the team has been losing for 14 years? Serious question. Being a sports fan is a hobby. It sucks that it's been 14 years, but if you can enjoy it then by all means I think it's great. The majority of Bills fans (dare I say 90%) seem to fit in this category. But when your displeasure with a product has hit a level where the need to incessantly complain about it outweighs the pleasure you can derive from it, well then it might be time for a change. Going to pay and watch this product in person, and then boo it, well I just don't see the point.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) No, he said what he said because he wanted to hear people suck up and say they never booed and they support him. In short, he had his feelings hurt and he turned to one of the places in the planet that will absolutely tear you apart and mock you when you ask for sympathy. How do the people who booed assume "ownership" over players for dumping on a player who dumped on them? that you are allowed to (obviously within reason) do whatever you want to him, and him having a pretty harmless reply is WAY OUT OF LINE can certainly have those underlying issues. we see it often around here. people think the ticket they bought, or the t-shirt, or simply tuning in on sunday gives them a right to say what they want, that the team owes them explanations of any decisions - heck, read the cordy glenn threads and tell me that some people dont have weird issues with feeling they own the players. i wasnt saying everyone that was displeased with the entertainment value of the game is in that boat. theres certainly a segment of the fan base that is though, and id bet they were exceptionally loud in their opinions on saturday as far as subsets of the fan base go. as ive said several times, it was a dumb tweet on his part, but theres a lot of "omg how dare he say anything - go back to texas" which seems over the top. someone earlier compared the booing to a shove, and his reaction to shooting people in the face - for instance. Edited August 25, 2014 by NoSaint
Gugny Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Goodwin isn't a product. He's a person. There's a segment of the fan base that thinks their ticket entitles them to some form of ownership over the players. It's simply not the case. That's not everyone that booed, but there's clearly a segment. He most certainly is a product. I think a sense of ownership is wrong. However, when a person gives his/her money to the Buffalo Bills for a ticket, then that person is absolutely paying for a product. The product is the Buffalo Bills. The roster is part of the Buffalo Bills. Goodwin is on the roster. So he's a product. In my opinion, of course.
May Day 10 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Being a sports fan is a hobby. It sucks that it's been 14 years, but if you can enjoy it then by all means I think it's great. The majority of Bills fans (dare I say 90%) seem to fit in this category. But when your displeasure with a product has hit a level where the need to incessantly complain about it outweighs the pleasure you can derive from it, well then it might be time for a change. Going to pay and watch this product in person, and then boo it, well I just don't see the point. Booing is one way to facilitate change. Worked for the Sabres. IF the team comes out crappy this season and the crowd is ugly, hopefully the new owner knows that the status quo here will not be accepted. I think Marrone was a fool at times when he more than implied that winning preseason games is a priority and important. It unnecessarily raises the expectations and magnifies shortcomings. Especially foolish considering a sheltered playbook and camp fodder playing later in the game. I know for me Marrone's feelings on preseason intensify my worry a bit they look so bad. If they were treated like practice games... then its easier to wait and see. As far as Goodwin. Its fair to comment, but IMO shows thin skin from a pro athlete, is ill advised, and wasnt in good form. Dixon did it much more tactfully and challenged the fans to be more vocal and into the game. Goodwin just sounds like a baby and Im sure he is getting beat up on twitter.
Storm Front Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) I am willing to bet that Goodwin and Boobie wish they were on their way out of B'lo right now. These guys are now going to be the fans' whipping boys. If they thought the booing they heard was bad during the preseason, wait until one of them drops a pass or runs for negative yardage during the regular season. Edited August 25, 2014 by distortions
CodeMonkey Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Booing is one way to facilitate change. Worked for the Sabres. IF the team comes out crappy this season and the crowd is ugly, hopefully the new owner knows that the status quo here will not be accepted. Except that the status quo will be accepted. Boos or no boos, there are a lot of Bills fans that will buy their seasons, merch, etc. no matter what, just so long as they stay in Buffalo. The status quo has been accepted in the only way that matters, on the bottom line, for the last 15 years of mediocre to terrible play. There is no reason for new ownership to expect any less from the fans. Hopefully though, the new ownership themselves won't be satisfied with the status quo.
Kemp Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Goodwin's view is that fans should toss away a couple hundred bucks to attend and then cheer when they are down 24-0.
ndirish1978 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 that you are allowed to (obviously within reason) do whatever you want to him, and him having a pretty harmless reply is WAY OUT OF LINE can certainly have those underlying issues. we see it often around here. people think the ticket they bought, or the t-shirt, or simply tuning in on sunday gives them a right to say what they want, that the team owes them explanations of any decisions - heck, read the cordy glenn threads and tell me that some people dont have weird issues with feeling they own the players. i wasnt saying everyone that was displeased with the entertainment value of the game is in that boat. theres certainly a segment of the fan base that is though, and id bet they were exceptionally loud in their opinions on saturday as far as subsets of the fan base go. as ive said several times, it was a dumb tweet on his part, but theres a lot of "omg how dare he say anything - go back to texas" which seems over the top. someone earlier compared the booing to a shove, and his reaction to shooting people in the face - for instance. I understand your point a bit better now. To me that's not a sense of entitled ownership, it just boils down to people being keyboard gladiators and wanting to act cool. Most of those people probably rip on people singing in youtube videos. Some people are more hyperbolic than most. At least we can agree that whatever his intent was when posting that tweet, it wasn't well thought out. To think he was going to get anything back from the internet ether other than insults is foolhardy at best.
RyanC883 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Here's an equivalent. You own a restaurant. You've got bad service, and people start leaving negative comments on Yelp. In response, you Tweet "I don't think they should be leaving bad comments about our service. They should appreciate how hard we're working." Yes, you can say it...but like I said earlier, businesses shouldn't complain about their customers, especially loyal ones. I actually think this is a great example.
kickedface Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 it makes sense. its unreasonable to want to have the team win. its unreasonable to want the team to score a TD and even seatlle with their amazing crowd would boo if their offense played the way the 1st team did. is it wrong to be frustrated with a team that doesn't appear to be improving on the offense? theres a qb of the future who doesn't seem like he will be playing in the league in 2 years. a WR that is supposed to be the greatest thing ever who we haven't seen anything from except a few catches in practice. the D shows promise, they are showing they should be fun to watch. but the offense is offensive. there are too many "weapons" to be unable to move the ball. i thought the boos were justified. if it lights a fire under the team awesome, if it doesn't what's another season of losing? though losing at this point seems stupid without a 1st round pick to gain. suggesting band wagon fans is stupid though. you need to win to have a bandwagon, thats something that just hasn't happened in a very long time. all that said, i've vented, i will watch every game. i will cheer like my life depended on it. like i have every season since i started watching football. even if the team is terrible. i normally bash that type of rant but hey we all have our limits.
stony Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Booing is one way to facilitate change. Worked for the Sabres. IF the team comes out crappy this season and the crowd is ugly, hopefully the new owner knows that the status quo here will not be accepted. I think Marrone was a fool at times when he more than implied that winning preseason games is a priority and important. It unnecessarily raises the expectations and magnifies shortcomings. Especially foolish considering a sheltered playbook and camp fodder playing later in the game. I know for me Marrone's feelings on preseason intensify my worry a bit they look so bad. If they were treated like practice games... then its easier to wait and see. As far as Goodwin. Its fair to comment, but IMO shows thin skin from a pro athlete, is ill advised, and wasnt in good form. Dixon did it much more tactfully and challenged the fans to be more vocal and into the game. Goodwin just sounds like a baby and Im sure he is getting beat up on twitter. That's a good point that's been overlooked. Starting with the Giants game, he's probably placed far more expectations on pre-season performance than he would've liked. That's on him. But then again, if he came out and said the pre-season doesn't matter, he'd be hearing it from the other half that claims the Bills need to be "building a winner" from day 1. Tough choice. Either way, his disposition towards the media has given the appearance that there's unsettled waters over at OBD, real or imagined.
dave mcbride Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Going back to the 1970s, Texas players have had a reputation of being coddled by practically everyone in Austin. The view expressed by many over the years is that UT players struggle in the dog-eat-dog world of the NFL as a consequence. Obviously, there are exceptions, but there is a lot of evidence to back this up (going back to #1 overall pick Kenneth Sims). Goodwin went to UT.
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