nucci Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Wouldn't be unprecedented and let's face it, that's how this organization rolls sometimes. Sacrifice a coach (Hackett) to the wolves to save upper management. This helps avoid having to answer uncomfortable questions when there's a pre-season cluster of a performance. Whatever happened to Turk Schonert? Is he available? You criticize everything about this team, especially the coaching staff. So if they fire OC you'll still complain. There are more experienced offensive coaches on this staff and I'm guessing they are smarter than Hackett
Chandler#81 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 @mikerodak: GM Doug Whaley just called OC Nate Hackett from tunnel. Whaley meeting with Russ Brandon, Marrone at entrance to locker room. FINALLY! Something to believe in and hope for, from this sorriest of pre-seasons yet this century. I think I could stomach watching some regular season games, knowing heads rolled for this total 'disrespect for the sport' off-season. Oh yeah, we don't have a 1st Rd pick next year... Nevermind. DOOOMED!
Max997 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) As witnessed by the ease of which the Bills moved the ball against the Bucs second stringers. EJ had more time to throw, was more comfortable, threw the ball much better. The first half was text book offensive line struggle. Run for little gain (OL can't penetrate), run for little gain, third and long- obvious passing down- defense blitzes or rushes 4- slant or seam route. QBs cannot thrive under those conditions. Vanilla offense cannot adjust to those conditions. EJ may not be the best QB to deal with those conditions but he and the offense would be one heckuva lot better if third down was not always an obvious passing down and he had more time to throw when it was time to pass. Basic football. This is absolutely ridiculous, the excuse makers never cease to amaze me. Edited August 24, 2014 by Max997
NoSaint Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front. In march 2013 I was posting it was crazy not to have a strong oline for the incoming rookie that would need a pocket to step into. No replacement for levitre, and cutting tjax early are two mistakes that baffled me last year and each have come back to hurt the team. That said, a good qb makes this offense look much better. We will see if ej has that light come on.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 As witnessed by the ease of which the Bills moved the ball against the Bucs second stringers. EJ had more time to throw, was more comfortable, threw the ball much better. The first half was text book offensive line struggle. Run for little gain (OL can't penetrate), run for little gain, third and long- obvious passing down- defense blitzes or rushes 4- slant or seam route. QBs cannot thrive under those conditions. Vanilla offense cannot adjust to those conditions. EJ may not be the best QB to deal with those conditions but he and the offense would be one heckuva lot better if third down was not always an obvious passing down and he had more time to throw when it was time to pass. Basic football. Amazing that so-called football fans can't see the connection.
BillsfaninMyrtleBeach Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 There is a lot of problems combining to frustrate everybody. The OL, the QB positions are the ones that need to be better. I don't know what went on in the locker room at half time (maybe a "kegger"?) but it seemed that the offence was a different team in the beginning of the 3rd. quarter. They were hitting on all cylinders. What was the magic that happened there? Not too worried about the D, just think they were tuckered out. One thing is for sure, it's going to be a LONNNNNGGGG season if those problems are not fixed!!
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 I got the feeling he isn't even waiting for plays to develop/break down, according to some posters who watched the game. What I do think is this QB and offense are not good enough to make this the playoff team that so many here are deluding themselves into believing. You can't wait for plays to develop if you are bring sacked within three seconds. Plus they were literally ruining the same passing play the entire first half. Nobody was getting open and when someone did get open EJ was getting hit
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 O-line had a to of penalties, several negated good gains. I mean come on 1st and 30. Chandler fell down on the interception. The Spiller fumble, Woods slipped on a would-be 1st down catch, some rushers not getting blocked, many attempts he got hit only getting to his second option thus the check downs, and no Watkins. When he had time he did a pretty good job. The Bucs were able to penetrate the middle of the pocket not many QBs have good games when the team they're playing are able to do this, including Manning, and Brady. EJ is NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CARRY THIS TEAM he going to need his teammates and Coaches help, like most young QBs. On a side note I like the quick swing passes to Spiller ? in the third quarter. When hit in stride, like the ones in the third quarter, it gets him out in space with a full head of steam.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 You can't wait for plays to develop if you are bring sacked within three seconds. Plus they were literally ruining the same passing play the entire first half. Nobody was getting open and when someone did get open EJ was getting hit But you're still positing a logical fallacy. Yes we have an o-line problem. But that does NOT mean that we don't also have a QB problem. Most likely, we have BOTH.
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Re-watch the game, I just did and EJ was bad when he was under pressure and just as bad when he wasn't. He didn't look good until he went against the 2nd stringers. Folks, we have a QB problem AND a O-Line problem !!
BillsVet Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 That may be, but in this case, it would be deserved. This offense can only be described as listless. You take a raw QB from a half-field college offense and a talented outside RB and what do you do? Neutralize both of their strengths, put both of them in positions to fail. Make CJ run between the tackles. Make EJ throw from the pocket in obvious passing situations with few rollouts and few high-percentage throws. Run shotgun on third and shot. Refuse to bring in competent guards despite two offseasons and two drafts. Run a hurry up and fail offense. Feature a tight end without an actual tight end on the roster. Fail to hire a QB coach until Year 2 of EJ's development. Etc. etc. Hacket deserves to be fired, and if I'm Whaley, I'm sweating that this moronic play caller is going to ruin his young QB and get the entire management team fired. Whaley very well might have told Marrone and Hackett that if that ever happens again, someone is getting demoted - Hacket can run quality control and film review, and Marrone can call the plays. And second prize is You're Fired. It's funny you mention Schoenert because Whaley has been around the league long enough to know a popgun offense when he sees one. What a disaster. Agreed. I always wondered why Marrone chose as OC, a guy who hadn't been a position coach in the NFL. I knew he was the son of an offensive guy, but getting a HC gig sometimes is a one-time opportunity and trusting a NFL offense to a rookie NFL OC without major pro experience is a huge gamble. And to make matters worse, they make Hackett the QB coach for a raw rookie. This season, as you say, they hired a "Senior Offensive Assistant" in Hostler (who didn't have good reviews in SF) and a QB coach to "assist" Hackett. Sounds like a day late and a dollar short. The common denominator I've seen over the years is their approach in building a team for a specific scheme to achieve an identity is completely uncoordinated. The same lack of synergy occurred during the Jauron and Gailey years. DJ was offensively challenged, but even Nix/Gailey didn't get it right. Nix wanted a big OL, then drafted a smaller back who excels at running outside the tackles. They went with a short passing game depending on timing but had a QB who was inaccurate. Personnel decisions and strategy have not been coordinated well to create a scheme and acquire offensive identity. That's the mark of poor football management and it's happening all over again. You criticize everything about this team, especially the coaching staff. So if they fire OC you'll still complain. There are more experienced offensive coaches on this staff and I'm guessing they are smarter than Hackett You'd be upset too if the last time the Bills were good was 10 years ago when you were in Iraq. Homers.
NeverOutNick Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Preseason...it's preseason. Let's wait until the regular season to see what the real Bills look like. EJ wasn't that bad, I was more upset with the refs making horrible calls (seemed very one sided throughout the first half on big runs being called back)
Big Turk Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I have concerns too . but preseason goofiness with play calling, or lack of has to factor in today Bills analyst said they looked like they were running the same 4 plays over and over again
Max997 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Bills analyst said they looked like they were running the same 4 plays over and over again And that's different from what we saw from Hackett last year how?
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Take a look at what Pats, Broncos, Seahawks did this past weekend -- no team gives up their secrets in pre-season, but good teams execute basic plays and get in sync in pre-season --- you especially want to see that in a team that is suppose to be on the upswing
Whites Bay Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Man, the interior of that O-Line showed me NOTHING today. NOTHING. CJ got outside on a few good plays (and so did Fred), so I'm not going to bark at the tackles, but holy underwear, Batman. There was NOTHING inside. Against F-ing Tampa? I'm usually floating along in a Kool-Aid Jacuzzi with this team, but this game took everything out of me. That was just god-awful. Someone is getting fired tomorrow morning, and he deserves it. I just hope this isn't a repeat of 2009.
Max997 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Preseason...it's preseason. Let's wait until the regular season to see what the real Bills look like. EJ wasn't that bad, I was more upset with the refs making horrible calls (seemed very one sided throughout the first half on big runs being called back) The it's preseason excuse, don't know which is worse that or the vanilla offense BS
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 And that's different from what we saw from Hackett last year how? He called a different third quarter. You can't beat anyone using, I'll be more generous, 8-10 plays.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 But you're still positing a logical fallacy. Yes we have an o-line problem. But that does NOT mean that we don't also have a QB problem. Most likely, we have BOTH. I watched every bad EJ play in slow-mo to see where the breakdown occurred. Almost every time he's on the verge of being sacked or has a rusher in his face. Miraculously in the second half he is nearly prefect on two TD drives. So if he's so incapable how does he pull that off? Maybe he had more time? How accurate did McCown look when he was pressured?
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Bills analyst said they looked like they were running the same 4 plays over and over again Marrone and Hackett seem to be of the view that they can win with execution, not scheme. Given the youth of the offensive personnel, the hubris of that approach is absolutely startling. I watched every bad EJ play in slow-mo to see where the breakdown occurred. Almost every time he's on the verge of being sacked or has a rusher in his face. Miraculously in the second half he is nearly prefect on two TD drives. So if he's so incapable how does he pull that off? Maybe he had more time? How accurate did McCown look when he was pressured? McCown was 13 of 16. What are you talking about?
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