We don't have so much a QB problem as an O-line problem.

[PromoTheRobot]

Name a successful QB who deferred to his RB for offensive leadership? Even as rookies they're expected to take command. It's now his second training camp. He should be in full control of the huddle & the sideline, even if his play is struggling.

Why don't you prove it never happened?

[PromoTheRobot]

For the life of me, I can't see where Promo said anything at all like that. He has pointed out EJ's deficiencies. But it seems to me his point is the poor play of the OL vastly increases those deficiencies. Cure that, and EJ's play improves. FWIW, I think the Oline for the beginning of the regular season will be the same as last year, with Williams the sole new guy. That will create some stability while Henderson, et al, gain time to improve.

 

That's the TBD game. Disagree with the fire and pitchfork mob and you get accused of being a kool aid drinker. Every point is taken to the absolute.

[thebandit27]

Name a successful QB who deferred to his RB for offensive leadership? Even as rookies they're expected to take command. It's now his second training camp. He should be in full control of the huddle & the sideline, even if his play is struggling.

 

I remember hearing Peyton Manning criticized by teammates for not taking command.

 

I also remember Big Ben letting Jerome Bettis do that stuff as a rookie.

 

Eli Manning was the quietest rookie QB I've ever seen in my life.

 

I am going to get flamed for this and possibly well deserved.

 

I dislike Jim Kelly, his involvment in the franchise, and the constant convenient amnesia we have towards his general character. Different topic all together.

 

That said, thoughts and prayers to him and his family. Not ment to bash him. I think we just give him too much credit at times.

 

No problems with that opinion.

 

For the life of me, I can't see where Promo said anything at all like that. He has pointed out EJ's deficiencies. But it seems to me his point is the poor play of the OL vastly increases those deficiencies. Cure that, and EJ's play improves. FWIW, I think the Oline for the beginning of the regular season will be the same as last year, with Williams the sole new guy. That will create some stability while Henderson, et al, gain time to improve.

 

I think the issue is that the tone of the OP and the title seem to be absolving the QB and placing the lion's share of the blame on the OL, which I think many of us feel would be misdirected.

[JPS]

You do not need to resolve the debate about the O-line to begin the criticism of EJ.

 

I saw poorly placed throws against th Bucs. I saw him run out of bounds and take a loss where most NFL QBs know to just pitch it to the 1st row on your way out. There are things QBs can do to hlp his O-line out as well. I just haven't seen much from EJ. Can we hold out hope? Sure. Can we justify his failures? I guess. But I think JW put it best when he said 'the only thing consistent about EJ is his inconsistency' (I'm not going for a blue book cite there).

 

I think we can agree that it's hard to be a Buffalo sports fan.

[GG]

Why don't you prove it never happened?

 

That he needed a full first half and exit of first stringers to finally get going.

[BillsVet]

That's not how I read that. I also find it odd that it is the RB who's gathering the offensive team together on the sideline and not the QB. I don't think it's about the rah rah cheerleading, but about making sure that the players know what he wants out of them on the field. Especially when there's been a wrong pattern run by WRs every single game, or as the OP excuses, the OL is making him look bad. To me he's approaching the game like a skill position player where he takes instruction, not the field general who gives out instructions.

 

This.

 

It seems to me that If EJ was so knowledgeable about the offensive game plan, he's the one in someone's ear telling them to get it right. As in running the right route or the OL breaking down. I'd also expect if the OL is not holding their blocks and getting that QB hit, that the QB would be ripping into them, not the veteran RB going ape at the whole unit. EJ may not be a 10 year veteran, but he's the QB and it's his responsibility to lead and I don't see it right now.

 

The other thing I disagree with is blaming a five man unit first before the QB. Dividing blame among 5 is so much more convenient in the apology game than focusing on one guy. And that one player more than anyone else has more to do with success on a football team than any other. It should be natural that when things don't go well, the first person identified as the root cause of that failure is the QB. Except among defenders of all things Bills.

[Mango]

You do not need to resolve the debate about the O-line to begin the criticism of EJ.

 

I saw poorly placed throws against th Bucs. I saw him run out of bounds and take a loss where most NFL QBs know to just pitch it to the 1st row on your way out. There are things QBs can do to hlp his O-line out as well. I just haven't seen much from EJ. Can we hold out hope? Sure. Can we justify his failures? I guess. But I think JW put it best when he said 'the only thing consistent about EJ is his inconsistency' (I'm not going for a blue book cite there).

 

I think we can agree that it's hard to be a Buffalo sports fan.

 

I have had a hard time with the criticism of this play. I don't disagree with it, get rid of the ball before you take a loss, especially inside the 10. I also don't recall this issue a ton so far, so I don't really see a pattern with it. It ended with a bullet TD pass so no harm no foul is how I look at it. If we came out with 3 from there it would be a bigger point of contention with me.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

I remember hearing Peyton Manning criticized by teammates for not taking command.

 

I also remember Big Ben letting Jerome Bettis do that stuff as a rookie.

 

Eli Manning was the quietest rookie QB I've ever seen in my life.

 

 

 

No problems with that opinion.

 

 

 

I think the issue is that the tone of the OP and the title seem to be absolving the QB and placing the lion's share of the blame on the OL, which I think many of us feel would be misdirected.

 

You were in the clubhouse and lockeroom with the Giants in 2004? Otherwise how do you get about spewing this nonsense?

[FireChan]

That's the TBD game. Disagree with the fire and pitchfork mob and you get accused of being a kool aid drinker. Every point is taken to the absolute.

 

I have never seen you blame the organization for a problem. Not saying it's never happened, but that is what causes fans to call you a kool-aid drinker. You blamed the fans for running Fitz out of town when there was a phone recording of the FO saying Fitz stinks and he needs to go.

[Mango]

This.

 

It seems to me that If EJ was so knowledgeable about the offensive game plan, he's the one in someone's ear telling them to get it right. As in running the right route or the OL breaking down. I'd also expect if the OL is not holding their blocks and getting that QB hit, that the QB would be ripping into them, not the veteran RB going ape at the whole unit. EJ may not be a 10 year veteran, but he's the QB and it's his responsibility to lead and I don't see it right now.

 

The other thing I disagree with is blaming a five man unit first before the QB. Dividing blame among 5 is so much more convenient in the apology game than focusing on one guy. And that one player more than anyone else has more to do with success on a football team than any other. It should be natural that when things don't go well, the first person identified as the root cause of that failure is the QB. Except among defenders of all things Bills.

 

JP Losman was in players faces all the time, and nobody seriously respected him. There are different ways to lead

[FireChan]

I remember hearing Peyton Manning criticized by teammates for not taking command.

 

I also remember Big Ben letting Jerome Bettis do that stuff as a rookie.

 

Eli Manning was the quietest rookie QB I've ever seen in my life.

 

 

 

No problems with that opinion.

 

 

 

I think the issue is that the tone of the OP and the title seem to be absolving the QB and placing the lion's share of the blame on the OL, which I think many of us feel would be misdirected.

 

I remember people saying Jamarcus Russell wasn't a leader. And Matt Leinhart. etc. etc.

[BigBuff423]

You do not need to resolve the debate about the O-line to begin the criticism of EJ.

 

I saw poorly placed throws against th Bucs. I saw him run out of bounds and take a loss where most NFL QBs know to just pitch it to the 1st row on your way out. There are things QBs can do to hlp his O-line out as well. I just haven't seen much from EJ. Can we hold out hope? Sure. Can we justify his failures? I guess. But I think JW put it best when he said 'the only thing consistent about EJ is his inconsistency' (I'm not going for a blue book cite there).

 

I think we can agree that it's hard to be a Buffalo sports fan.

 

^^^Essentially, this....especially the last line...sometimes, we spend so much time being miserable and frustrated by the lack of effectiveness and winning by the Buffalo BILLS that we take out those frustrations on each other, sort of like the two brothers battling in the backseat of a very long car ride...to nowhere...but eventually drives off a cliff....and you die...after realizing your parents aren't your parents...and the Matrix is real....sort of like that.

[Delete This Account]

So why bring it up?

 

why do i need to explain myself? i don't post stuff here because i'm guessing.

 

jw

 

No, it points to a desire to see outward vocal expression. Leadership comes in many forms. If you're insinuating that the folks inside 1 Bills Drive feel that EJ isn't leading, then that's a different story. What he says doesn't matter a lick, and his teammates know it.

 

A QB is most responsible for producing on the field. If it came down to leadership, Tim Tebow would be a HOFer.

 

He's not.

 

interesting. Rob Johnson was knocked for lacking leadership, too.

 

jw

[GG]

why do i need to explain myself? i don't post stuff here because i'm guessing.

 

jw

 

 

you reserve that for PPP

[Delete This Account]

JP Losman was in players faces all the time, and nobody seriously respected him. There are different ways to lead

 

no. he. wasn't.

 

jw

[thebandit27]

You were in the clubhouse and lockeroom with the Giants in 2004? Otherwise how do you get about spewing this nonsense?

 

Look before you leap. I don't know why you like to openly criticize me, but maybe do a scintilla of research about the subject before you call my post nonsense.

 

You don't remember Tiki Barber calling out Manning for not being a leader? (Google is your friend)

 

Or how about when Giants GM Jerry Reese called him out?

 

Or how about when he said this?

 

“I’m not the one to blame for a loss,” Manning said on Monday when asked about the growing criticism. “You are going to lose games. That’s part of football. It’s just about learning from the mistakes, seeing what you are doing well and going into the next week with a good attitude that if you win that one, you are back in a good spot and everything will be fine again.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sports/football/15giants.html?_r=0

 

Not from his rookie year, I know, so here's the kicker:

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/giants/2005-09-22-eli-manning-cover_x.htm

 

But Manning now displays much of the self-assuredness that distinguishes his older brother, who shared league MVP honors with Tennessee's Steve McNair two years ago before earning the honor outright last season.

"I'm sure he feels much more comfortable now," Giants quarterbacks coach Kevin Gilbride says of Manning.

"He's going to a guy and saying, 'What was the coverage on that route? I expect you to react this way and I expect this response, and you didn't do it. How come?'

"And he'll come down with, 'Make sure you do it that way if you want the ball.' Last year, he would not have done that."

 

Last year--as in his rookie year--he would not have done that. As I said, he was very quiet and kept that stuff to himself as a rookie.

 

I won't hold my breath for a retraction of your "nonsense" comment.

 

I remember people saying Jamarcus Russell wasn't a leader. And Matt Leinhart. etc. etc.

 

The poster asked for examples, I provided them. Rest easy ChanFuego.

 

interesting. Rob Johnson was knocked for lacking leadership, too.

 

jw

 

And at different points in their respective careers, so to were the Manning brothers.

 

Play on the field is what matters John.

 

Play on the field.

 

You know this.

[GA BILLS FAN]

I'm not privy to what is going on inside 1BD. I hope EJ is owning his own shortcomings, because that's a critical step in becoming a leader. If he's not, he's doomed.

 

Assuming he is, he might not be comfortable being outspoken yet, I'm willing to cut him slack in that regard. I didn't care that Fred pulled the team together on the sideline, EJ was in there and contributing. It's hard when you're not playing well to tell others to pick it up.

 

As for Eli and the Giants, Strahan has said on multiple occasions that Eli is not outspoken and rarely in his first few years said much if anything.

[Coach Tuesday]

Cutler is a horrible leader but if EJ could just get his play up to Cutler's level, at least we'd have a chance at the playoffs. Leadership is just a bonus. The Bills blew the chance to bring in a QB with both the tangibles and the intangibles when they traded up to take TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson, which may have set us back another, oh, decade. But we don't need to go there right now...

[thebandit27]

I'm not privy to what is going on inside 1BD. I hope EJ is owning his own shortcomings, because that's a critical step in becoming a leader. If he's not, he's doomed.

 

Assuming he is, he might not be comfortable being outspoken yet, I'm willing to cut him slack in that regard. I didn't care that Fred pulled the team together on the sideline, EJ was in there and contributing. It's hard when you're not playing well to tell others to pick it up.

 

As for Eli and the Giants, Strahan has said on multiple occasions that Eli is not outspoken and rarely in his first few years said much if anything.

 

I'm told that's "nonsense"

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm told that's "nonsense"

 

Well regardless it's a sliding scale. Eli may not be a leader but he ran a pro offense in college that made his transition to the NFL much simpler. I watched a ton of his games at Ole Miss and it was clear that his skills would translate. He was reading defenses and running a complex passing game in college. EJ ran a half-field one read offense at FSU. He has no acumen for what the pros do, and his inability to lead is just the cherry on top. If EJ could run an offense like Eli or even Cutler, it wouldn't really matter.