thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 what i'm suggesting is however poorly the offense played in the first half on Saturday, there was a distinct lack of ownership for the troubles continuing to come from the supposed leader, whether it was post-game or in-game (when Fred Jackson huddled up the offense on the sideline to try to inspire them). there seems to be no clear accountability coming from that position, and it's raising further questions in regards to whether EJ can ever develop into a starter. jw That's a pretty abstract criticism. What he says (either on the sideline or in the locker room) matters so very much less than his play on the field. He knows that, as do his teammates. DUH! No schitt, Sherlock. So you want EJ to step on the field and know what Peyton Manning knows? Again, don't confuse competence with perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) That's a pretty abstract criticism. What he says (either on the sideline or in the locker room) matters so very much less than his play on the field. He knows that, as do his teammates. puh-leeze. the criticism is not at all abstract it points directly toward leadership, which is what a QB ultimately is responsible for and, in many cases, judged upon in the room. jw Edited August 25, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 DUH! No schitt, Sherlock. So you want EJ to step on the field and know what Peyton Manning knows? Nope. Again, not what I said. You're really struggling here. You seem to want 5 All-pro o-linemen before you make a judgement on Manuel. That's not going to happen and that's not how it works. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Nope. Again, not what I said. You're really struggling here. You seem to want 5 All-pro o-linemen before you make a judgement on Manuel. That's not going to happen and that's not how it works. Sorry. No, what I expect is our linemen to execute so the rookie QB can work on his game. They don't have to be 5 all-pros. Just don't be a clown show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rookie QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 no. So why bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I've been beating this drum since Buddy Nix's stupid comments in Oct/Nov 2012. They needed to keep Fitzpatrick. It makes sense that they tried to renegotiate, but when he didn't accept, they should have just sucked it up for at least one more season. I think that situation was one of the FO listening to the fans instead of making the best football decision. You don't jettison your veteran starting QB for a rookie project. You make the rookie unseat him. Rookie QB? Hadn't you heard? The league has redefined the word rookie to mean anyone who hasn't started and finished 16 complete regular season games. Aaron Rogers was a rookie for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 That ball was not on target because Spiller had to catch the ball behind him which stopped his progress and turned him around for a direct hit. If the ball is leading Spiller, he is still running and probably runs by the LB. I'm going to assume you didn't actually see the play. Watch the video... http://www.nfl.com/videos/tampa-bay-buccaneers/0ap3000000382475/Pre-Wk-3-Can-t-Miss-Play-Foster-wins-in-pinball CJ turns to face EJ and the ball came right to him. If you are going to see this and still argue the throw was off then there is no point in having a rational discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 No, what I expect is our linemen to execute so the rookie QB can work on his game. They don't have to be 5 all-pros. Just don't be a clown show. Maybe our QB could execute so our linemen can work on their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) puh-leeze. the criticism is not at all abstract it points directly toward leadership, which is what a QB ultimately is responsible for and, in many cases, judged upon in the room. jw No, it points to a desire to see outward vocal expression. Leadership comes in many forms. If you're insinuating that the folks inside 1 Bills Drive feel that EJ isn't leading, then that's a different story. What he says doesn't matter a lick, and his teammates know it. A QB is most responsible for producing on the field. If it came down to leadership, Tim Tebow would be a HOFer. He's not. Edited August 25, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Maybe our QB could execute so our linemen can work on their game. Snappy. Meaningless but snappy. What you are saying is that EJ needs to make better throws with a rusher in his face blowing up the play BEFORE our O-line blocks that guy?? Aye aye , Captain! Or maybe the O-line is too butthurt because EJ isn't any good so how can you expect them to play well for him? Edited August 25, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'm going to assume you didn't actually see the play. Watch the video... http://www.nfl.com/v...wins-in-pinball CJ turns to face EJ and the ball came right to him. If you are going to see this and still argue the throw was off then there is no point in having a rational discussion. If EJ has to throw a better pass than that in order for Spiller to not fumble, we're doomed. It was a nice tackle by EJ. But come on PTR, don't try to confuse us with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'm going to assume you didn't actually see the play. Watch the video... http://www.nfl.com/v...wins-in-pinball CJ turns to face EJ and the ball came right to him. If you are going to see this and still argue the throw was off then there is no point in having a rational discussion. Yes, I saw the play and that's why I commented. CJ didn't stop first, his stutter step momentum is still to his right, but he had to stop to catch the pass on his left side and that's what made him reverse his field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Snappy. Meaningless but snappy. What you are saying is that EJ needs to make better throws with a rusher in his face blowing up the play BEFORE our O-line blocks that guy?? Aye aye , Captain! Or maybe the O-line is too butthurt because EJ isn't any good so how can you expect them to play well for him? Don't we have 3 rookie O-liners? Let's not give them any pass for being rookies, but EJ "Benjamin Button second-year rookie" Manuel needs more time because he's a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'm going to assume you didn't actually see the play. Watch the video... http://www.nfl.com/v...wins-in-pinball CJ turns to face EJ and the ball came right to him. If you are going to see this and still argue the throw was off then there is no point in having a rational discussion. I watched it several times. It's executed just the way it's supposed to be. Spiller even turned the right way and had a lot of daylight ahead of him. Bad break that the defender's helmet hit him right in the hand. Also looked like EJ did a fine job of dekeing the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 This is probably a "chicken and egg" argument, but I think the greater issue is EJ...IMHO, I've seen more improvement in the Rookie Offensive Linemen than EJ during this Pre Season...does he "look" better than his first start last year? Meh...maybe a little, but nowhere near where he needs to be, IMO...he needed to be decisive, accurate within reason, commanding, and capable of reading through his progressions....in my fan's eye, I don't see it...I see a guy who is very gifted, except in terms of football acumen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I find it kind of laughable that folks within One Bills Drive are "asking questions" about EJ's leadership abilities. Those same folks presumably were responsible for thoroughly scouting him, evaluating him during last season, and then deciding not to bring in any competition for the position. The only "questions" those people should be asking are questions about next offseason's job market for coaches, coordinators, GMs and scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 No, it points to a desire to see outward vocal expression. Leadership comes in many forms. If you're insinuating that the folks inside 1 Bills Drive feel that EJ isn't leading, then that's a different story. What he says doesn't matter a lick, and his teammates know it. That's not how I read that. I also find it odd that it is the RB who's gathering the offensive team together on the sideline and not the QB. I don't think it's about the rah rah cheerleading, but about making sure that the players know what he wants out of them on the field. Especially when there's been a wrong pattern run by WRs every single game, or as the OP excuses, the OL is making him look bad. To me he's approaching the game like a skill position player where he takes instruction, not the field general who gives out instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yes, I saw the play and that's why I commented. CJ didn't stop first, his stutter step momentum is still to his right, but he had to stop to catch the pass on his left side and that's what made him reverse his field. He turned to face EJ even before EJ threw the ball. The ball was right to him. He turned around and got popped. EJ's throw didn't mess up his "stutter step momentum" or whatever nonsense you are inventing. Obviously we can never discuss anything because even with video evidence in your face you create alternate realities. Don't we have 3 rookie O-liners? Let's not give them any pass for being rookies, but EJ "Benjamin Button second-year rookie" Manuel needs more time because he's a rookie. So you are agreeing that the O-line was making things tough on EJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 That's not how I read that. I also find it odd that it is the RB who's gathering the offensive team together on the sideline and not the QB. I don't think it's about the rah rah cheerleading, but about making sure that the players know what he wants out of them on the field. Especially when there's been a wrong pattern run by WRs every single game, or as the OP excuses, the OL is making him look bad. To me he's approaching the game like a skill position player where he takes instruction, not the field general who gives out instructions. That sounds like an issue of communication on the field. The way it was stated was that he isn't taking verbal command during the game or saying the right things afterward. Not effectively communicating with teammates is one thing; chastising someone for not being outwardly vocal is another. My point is simply this: if the issue being taken is that EJ should be the one trying to fire up his teammates, and not Freddie, well, that's a non-issue for me. If the criticism is that EJ won't communicate to his teammates what they need to do differently to do their jobs, that's another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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