We don't have so much a QB problem as an O-line problem.

[The Big Cat]

So now re-watching a TV broadcast and listing the down, distance, and result qualifies as "breaking down film"?

 

Our standards are indeed crumbling.

 

This coming from the poster who responded to specifics with "the majority of his passes in the first half." That's plainly false. It is. I re-watched last night to figure out what might have happened on plays gone awry, exactly what you're asking about. In two other threads I detailed what might have happened on four other plays. You've provided no such details.

[Best Player Available]

EJ got rattled after the first couple drives and tried to aim the ball. He calmed down in the second half.

he seems to play best against scrubs. Like, tampa bay a team that i think won four games last season

[thebandit27]

This coming from the poster who responded to specifics with "the majority of his passes in the first half." That's plainly false. It is. I re-watched last night to figure out what might have happened on plays gone awry, exactly what you're asking about. In two other threads I detailed what might have happened on four other plays. You've provided no such details.

 

Sorry Large Feline, I don't have an NFL Rewind subscription this year, I don't have DVR at the new house, and I spent 13 hours in my car yesterday driving to and from appointments (and then one of my twin toddlers had a minor health event that required my attention--doesn't it all seem to happen at once?); that kind of puts a damper on my ability to sit in front of a TV and show you what I mean.

 

The overarching point I'm making in this thread is that EJ needs to succeed independent of the offensive line. That's what good QBs do. Guys like Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck were just fine last year despite playing behind trainwreck OLs--nowhere near the quality of Buffalo's (last year or this year).

 

You want to claim that my statement is plainly false? Fine, show me what plays he had less than 3 seconds. You've got the time and ability to look at it; I do not (that's not a diss, just an apparent statement of fact).

[reddogblitz]

On a good note and regardless of the score, I think the defense looks good to great.

 

A defense looks good if it gives up 17 points in one half? That's the whole point of a defense to keep the other team from scoring points. People on here want to make excuses for them like they were put in bad field position etc. I don't understand that logic.

 

I saw an interview with Patrick Peterson on his game and he was talking about when the Cardinals turned it over deep in their own territory. He said he was glad they held them to a FG. If you want to be a dominant D you can't give up 7 and we didn't so I was happy, he said. He didn't say, well, the O put us in a tough spot so giving up a TD is not a bad thing.

 

The D on Saturday reminded me of the old Perry Fewell Ds. Hold them on first and second down and then give up a 12 yard pass play on 3rd.

 

The D has a lot of work to do. A lot of work ...

[John Cocktosten]

Then please chime in with your well thought out scientific study of EJ titled 'woulda shoulda coulda." It's surprising when someone tries to break down film people think their opinion of what ought to be trumps what actually is going on.

 

This has to work both way then becasue every draft "expert" and "QB guru" all thought EJ was a project and said he had trouble with progressions, pocket awareness and accuracy. Anyhoo, carry on.

[FireChan]

 

You left out the analyzing each play part.

 

I do not disagree EJ is not good right now. What I am saying is try to understand what is happening to him.

 

He is an inexperienced QB. The coaches give him plays to execute but the plays immediately break down. Does he know how to respond to that. No. He's still learning that. That is what I think we are seeing in EJ. But is it because EJ's a lost cause or because he's still learning to play in the NFL

NFL?

 

That's not an O-line problem them, it's a QB problem.

[The Big Cat]

Sorry Large Feline, I don't have an NFL Rewind subscription this year, I don't have DVR at the new house, and I spent 13 hours in my car yesterday driving to and from appointments (and then one of my twin toddlers had a minor health event that required my attention--doesn't it all seem to happen at once?); that kind of puts a damper on my ability to sit in front of a TV and show you what I mean.

 

The overarching point I'm making in this thread is that EJ needs to succeed independent of the offensive line. That's what good QBs do. Guys like Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck were just fine last year despite playing behind trainwreck OLs--nowhere near the quality of Buffalo's (last year or this year).

 

You want to claim that my statement is plainly false? Fine, show me what plays he had less than 3 seconds. You've got the time and ability to look at it; I do not (that's not a diss, just an apparent statement of fact).

 

Look, I respect that you have other things going on. I'd ask you not disparage those that took 25 mins to re-watch, but it really doesn't matter.

 

What does matter is that the offense, EJ, the OLine, the receivers, the running backs. the penalties, at first blush it all looked like a disaster. But none of us could really make sense of it at first pass.

 

And for those who have made a second pass, some new **** has come to light, man. So, if you're not privy to the new ****, why insist on refuting those who are?

[Dibs]

.....

 

The overarching point I'm making in this thread is that EJ needs to succeed independent of the offensive line. That's what good QBs do. Guys like Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck were just fine last year despite playing behind trainwreck OLs--nowhere near the quality of Buffalo's (last year or this year).

 

.....

 

Of course he does. What we want/need is a true Franchise QB. You don't really expect that to happen over night though do you?(turn from a raw rookie to a Franchise calibre QB).

[thebandit27]

Look, I respect that you have other things going on. I'd ask you not disparage those that took 25 mins to re-watch, but it really doesn't matter.

 

What does matter is that the offense, EJ, the OLine, the receivers, the running backs. the penalties, at first blush it all looked like a disaster. But none of us could really make sense of it at first pass.

 

And for those who have made a second pass, some new **** has come to light, man. So, if you're not privy to the new ****, why insist on refuting those who are?

 

I didn't disparage anyone. I simply said that "breaking down film" is a whole different process than re-watching the broadcast.

 

I read the notes from the re-watch, and it didn't seem to change much at all from what I saw originally. The OL played poorly, the QB was worse, and the offense in general was a train wreck.

 

I try to pay attention to certain things when I'm at the game. I sit there in my seat at the stadium and it's become something of a habit to count the time between snap and delivery for me (obviously it's not an exact science, since I'm typically watching the WRs to see who's open, but it's really not a difficult task)...don't know exactly when I started doing it, but somewhere around the Bledsoe years feels about right. I don't keep hand-written notes, but a mental check mark of (he had his 3 seconds) is either there or it isn't. What I'm saying is that--in the first half--he had it on the majority of plays. Were there ones on which he didn't? Absolutely, but it was hardly the primary factor that influenced his play.

[thewildrabbit]

You left out the analyzing each play part.

 

I do not disagree EJ is not good right now. What I am saying is try to understand what is happening to him.

 

He is an inexperienced QB. The coaches give him plays to execute but the plays immediately break down. Does he know how to respond to that. No. He's still learning that. That is what I think we are seeing in EJ. But is it because EJ's a lost cause or because he's still learning to play in the NFL

NFL?

We don't have the coaches tape, and we don't know if his receivers were open or not. All I can assume is EJ lost some confidence in his TE when he threw to a spot, only to watch the receiver trip over his own feet, and see the ball intercepted. Then Woods slipping probably didn't help things. I can only think that EJ would tend to be more careful with the ball going forward, and wanting to make sure of completions. Mike Williams showed up. Chris Hogan showed up.

 

During the half the receivers might have changed cleats because I didn't notice anymore slipping.

 

But yea, EJ is still learning his professional occupation. As the late great Bill Walsh used to say, it usually take 3-4 years for a QB to fully develop. I'd have to think it takes longer then that for QB's playing on bad teams.

 

I wouldn't be defending EJ at all if four of the five starting linemen graded in the green, and not in the red like they did. Both EJ and the line need to play better, and then Hackett needs to call plays that have a chance of working, run and pass.

[CodeMonkey]

But yea, EJ is still learning his professional occupation. As the late great Bill Walsh used to say, it usually take 3-4 years for a QB to fully develop. I'd have to think it takes longer then that for QB's playing on bad teams.

And add to that, QBs that were known to be projects to begin with after college. I still wonder what Whaley and Marrone were thinking drafting a known project QB on a team that had no experienced QB to play under for a couple seasons.

[reddogblitz]

And add to that, QBs that were known to be projects to begin with after college. I still wonder what Whaley and Marrone were thinking drafting a known project QB on a team that had no experienced QB to play under for a couple seasons.

 

Who should they have gotten?

[Dibs]

And add to that, QBs that were known to be projects to begin with after college. I still wonder what Whaley and Marrone were thinking drafting a known project QB on a team that had no experienced QB to play under for a couple seasons.

 

They got in one of(if not the) highest ranked FA QBs in Kolb.

I think there is a legitimate point to be made in this off-season, but not last year.

[The Big Cat]

I didn't disparage anyone. I simply said that "breaking down film" is a whole different process than re-watching the broadcast.

 

I read the notes from the re-watch, and it didn't seem to change much at all from what I saw originally. The OL played poorly, the QB was worse, and the offense in general was a train wreck.

 

I try to pay attention to certain things when I'm at the game. I sit there in my seat at the stadium and it's become something of a habit to count the time between snap and delivery for me (obviously it's not an exact science, since I'm typically watching the WRs to see who's open, but it's really not a difficult task)...don't know exactly when I started doing it, but somewhere around the Bledsoe years feels about right. I don't keep hand-written notes, but a mental check mark of (he had his 3 seconds) is either there or it isn't. What I'm saying is that--in the first half--he had it on the majority of plays. Were there ones on which he didn't? Absolutely, but it was hardly the primary factor that influenced his play.

 

Well, that may be. I wish I was there, and/or had access to the All-22. But, from re-watching, I can tell you, he either checked down, had a miscommunication, a misfire or a utter breakdown of the OLine.

 

I don't mind the checkdowns in preseason. Some of those miscommunications (as per the observations I've twice shared on this board) looked to be on the WR's the misfires happen to every QB (anyone catch Carson Palmer completely biff a pass to Michael Floyd who was 30 yards downfield with zero defenders within 100 feet of him?) and as I prefaced in my analysis in another thread, EJ isn't good enough (yet) to carry the team by himself, few quarterbacks are, particularly when they're coping with OLine breakdowns.

[kickedface]

i thought when EJ threw on the run it was a bit more accurate than when he had time

[FLFan]

Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front.

Sensible post but no surprise you are being mauled for it. Once the villagers with the pitchforks are out after a loss, all reason goes by the wayside.

[Dibs]

i thought when EJ threw on the run it was a bit more accurate than when he had time

 

Has anybody really mentioned that pass yet? As I recall, he was terrible last season throwing on the run(he wasn't looking up field for the pass). To me, that play showed great improvement for him in that area.

[thebandit27]

Well, that may be. I wish I was there, and/or had access to the All-22. But, from re-watching, I can tell you, he either checked down, had a miscommunication, a misfire or a utter breakdown of the OLine.

 

I don't mind the checkdowns in preseason. Some of those miscommunications (as per the observations I've twice shared on this board) looked to be on the WR's the misfires happen to every QB (anyone catch Carson Palmer completely biff a pass to Michael Floyd who was 30 yards downfield with zero defenders within 100 feet of him?) and as I prefaced in my analysis in another thread, EJ isn't good enough (yet) to carry the team by himself, few quarterbacks are, particularly when they're coping with OLine breakdowns.

 

Somehow in this discussion we've happened upon the impression that we disagree on a few things; in reality I agree with pretty much all of what you say here.

 

The only premise I've disagreed with is the very spirit of the OP and title of this thread: that it's not a QB problem, but instead an OL problem.

 

Sensible post but no surprise you are being mauled for it. Once the villagers with the pitchforks are out after a loss, all reason goes by the wayside.

 

I'd like to point out that not everyone that disagrees with the OP is a "pitchforker". I'm quite supportive of EJ; I just don't excuse his poor play on Saturday on account of the OL is all.

 

Has anybody really mentioned that pass yet? As I recall, he was terrible last season throwing on the run(he wasn't looking up field for the pass). To me, that play showed great improvement for him in that area.

 

That was easily the best throw the kid has made all preseason...it was perfect. Right pass, right touch, right spot. Brilliant throw.

[The Big Cat]

Somehow in this discussion we've happened upon the impression that we disagree on a few things; in reality I agree with pretty much all of what you say here.

 

The only premise I've disagreed with is the very spirit of the OP and title of this thread: that it's not a QB problem, but instead an OL problem.

 

Ha, fair enough.

 

From my vantage point we don't "have" problems (though I'd rather the OLine shuffle came to an abrupt end...soon) as much as "had" problems Saturday. And yes, those problems Saturday weren't OLine problems, they weren't running back problems, quarterback problems, wide receiver problems or problems with the play calling, penalties or problems with the tight end falling on his ass, giving up interceptions.

 

The were just problems. The whole !@#$ing offense was a problem Saturday. Blame should be distributed evenly and accordingly!!

[Billsguy]

No worries at the QB position since the Bills plan to use their 1st round pick in next year's draft for a QB.