Mike in Horseheads Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Count me with the trolls. While EJ did have some bad plays like the fumble, the rest of the team stunk it up to high as bad or worse. The OLine couldn't open holes, pass block, or keep their hands to themselves; That's EJ's fault.. How many big plays got negated by penalty? That's EJ's fault. CJ fumbled. That's EJ's fault.The defense gave up long 3rd down conversion after long 3rd down conversion resulting in long drives resulting in points.. That's EJ's fault. Chandler fell down. That's EJ's fault. Blaming all the teams woes on the back of the QB is lazy football fansmanship IMHO. The whole team stunk. EVERYONE needs to play better including the coaches, waterboys, other players, and EJ. It's only preseason. I saw several other PS games with sputtering offenses. San Francisco's 1st team offense scored it first TD today. It ain't the end of the world, really. I'm also in with the trolls. The OL, WRs, TE, DL, LB, Secondary, Punter and TV feed all sucked too. Name one thing that was good in that game?Anything?
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I'm also in with the trolls. The OL, WRs, TE, DL, LB, Secondary, Punter and TV feed all sucked too. Name one thing that was good in that game?Anything? Run defense?
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 I think that was the biggest difference between the first & second half drives. He just didn't look comfortable at all in the first half, and it wasn't just because he had little time to throw on some plays. Again, the case of falling back on statistics or blaming others for his bad play. Whether it's a cliche or not, but he did not pass the eye test in the first half, and Lovie went after his weak points, and clearly rattled him. Whatever adjustments they made at the half seemed to work because EJ looked a lot more comfortable in his drop backs. Agreed...although, as you know, there's a significant drop in ability between 1st and 2nd stringers in the NFL, so that level of opponent probably helped. Give us 4-5 seconds in the pocket consistently and Rex Grossman could take us to the playoffs. Haha, yep. I want to question this. Is it possible the "system" Hackett uses, ( i know, no planning in preseason), is one that has EJ thinking too much instead of dropping back and firing? Not trying to simplify things too much, but is it possible EJ is a drop back and let it rip guy and Hackett wants him looking specifically at target 1, then 2, then 3 and so on and so on? Could be...I think it's more an issue of drilling into the kid's head that the ball needs to be gone by the back of his drop. He actually did just fine with that in all 3 preseason games prior to this one, so not sure what changed. I'm also in with the trolls. The OL, WRs, TE, DL, LB, Secondary, Punter and TV feed all sucked too. Name one thing that was good in that game?Anything? I have no complaints with the starting defense. They allowed 17 points, and 10 of them came on very short fields after turnovers.
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 EJ got rattled after the first couple drives and tried to aim the ball. He calmed down in the second half.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Could be...I think it's more an issue of drilling into the kid's head that the ball needs to be gone by the back of his drop. He actually did just fine with that in all 3 preseason games prior to this one, so not sure what changed. I think the "what changed" is that the coaches have been drilling into him to let the plays develop more. So that's likely what he was attempting to do, and he needs to find the middle ground.
peterpan Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Bottom line is EJ stinks and that doesn't bode well for below average O line. Good QBs make quicker reads and get rid of the ball faster than EJ. They also use the pocket better. Most of the hits EJ takes are not OL problems but QB problems.
NoSaint Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 He needs, IMO, more "confidence throws" early on in the game. Get him in a rhythm and let him roll. Having Sammy around will help that IMO. easy throws with explosive outcomes are great for getting going, and im sure a part of why the front office liked getting sammy. not just because he can put points on the board, but that he can help a qb get going too.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Posted August 25, 2014 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/170032-bills-first-half-vs-bucs-broken-down/ Oh, look what happens when you actually analyze the first half.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 easy throws with explosive outcomes are great for getting going, and im sure a part of why the front office liked getting sammy. not just because he can put points on the board, but that he can help a qb get going too. On the playaction pass which ended in a dumpoff, Hacket was clearly enraged with EJ when he got back to the sidelines. I'd love to see the All-22 but I'm guessing there was someone available downfield on the play. Notice I didn't say "open," I said "available." It's a confidence throw because it's an easy read and only one of two things are likely to happen: big play, or incompletion. Instead, EJ didn't trust what he saw and took the dumpoff. It's maddening to watch.
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 EJ got rattled after the first couple drives and tried to aim the ball. He calmed down in the second half. An extra second or two can do that...he won't have that in the regular season. I think the "what changed" is that the coaches have been drilling into him to let the plays develop more. So that's likely what he was attempting to do, and he needs to find the middle ground. That's a good point. easy throws with explosive outcomes are great for getting going, and im sure a part of why the front office liked getting sammy. not just because he can put points on the board, but that he can help a qb get going too. Indeed. http://forums.twobil...cs-broken-down/ Oh, look what happens when you actually analyze the first half. You realize that the opportunities were there, and that the QB didn't capitalize on them?
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/170032-bills-first-half-vs-bucs-broken-down/ Oh, look what happens when you actually analyze the first half. I know, you find a scapegoat easily because EJ doesn't get 50 seconds to make a decision. Just think about it, if we could get EJ like 20 more minutes in the pocket per play, he could throw 4 completed passes, kick a field goal and win. Those stupid O-linemen are holding us back.
K-9 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 easy throws with explosive outcomes are great for getting going, and im sure a part of why the front office liked getting sammy. not just because he can put points on the board, but that he can help a qb get going too. Great point here. GO BILLS!!!
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Posted August 25, 2014 I know, you find a scapegoat easily because EJ doesn't get 50 seconds to make a decision. Just think about it, if we could get EJ like 20 more minutes in the pocket per play, he could throw 4 completed passes, kick a field goal and win. Those stupid O-linemen are holding us back. Then please chime in with your well thought out scientific study of EJ titled 'woulda shoulda coulda." It's surprising when someone tries to break down film people think their opinion of what ought to be trumps what actually is going on.
thebandit27 Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Then please chime in with your well thought out scientific study of EJ titled 'woulda shoulda coulda." It's surprising when someone tries to break down film people think their opinion of what ought to be trumps what actually is going on. So now re-watching a TV broadcast and listing the down, distance, and result qualifies as "breaking down film"? Our standards are indeed crumbling.
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 So now re-watching a TV broadcast and listing the down, distance, and result qualifies as "breaking down film"? Our standards are indeed crumbling. Bandit's right, what the poster did, which is fine is analyze the results of the decisions EJ made pre and post snap. It doesn't analyze the decisions he COULD have made or SHOULD have made. For that you need All 22 and a sense of the playbook and audible options he had at his disposal. The analysis is good, but limited in value.
Dibs Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Bandit's right, what the poster did, which is fine is analyze the results of the decisions EJ made pre and post snap. It doesn't analyze the decisions he COULD have made or SHOULD have made. For that you need All 22 and a sense of the playbook and audible options he had at his disposal. The analysis is good, but limited in value. I don't disagree....but I think the value it does give is that it showed that EJ was not horrendous(as many would have it), but was indeed serviceable showing that he needs to continue to improve.
FireChan Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 So now re-watching a TV broadcast and listing the down, distance, and result qualifies as "breaking down film"? Our standards are indeed crumbling. Didn't Deadspin have a quote like that? Found it. "Go to any Bills blog over the offseason and read the comments. You have grown men who, without a single ounce of irony, refer to watching YouTube montages of a projected 8th round pick from Purdue as "watching tape", as though Mike McCarthy has user JimKellyNation_69 on speed-dial."
thewildrabbit Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 Well, in some detail: 1st Series: 1st and 10: 5yd PA pass to Summers 2nd and 5: Spiller run for 2 yds 3rd and 5: 7 yd Slant complete to Goodwin 1st and 10: Spiller run 3 yds 2nd and 7: Incomplete swing pass to Fred (pressure---look at Fred--EJ leads him, Fred stays flat--that or bad ball) 3rd and 7: Chandler trips over the 45 yd line; intercepted 2nd Series (our own 5) 1st and 10: Fred 1 yd...no blocking 2nd and 9: Fred 2 yds 3rd and 7: Pears gets destroyed--hand in EJ's face pass to Fred for 3 yds; punt 3rd Series (Bucs 42) 1st and 10: Fred minus 1 yd 2nd and 11: Ball bounces off of Spiller and its picked 4th Series (our own 18, 6:24 left in 1st--boos starting): 1st and 10: Spiller 4 yd run 2nd and 6: 15 yd Pass to Woods on a curl route, Woods SLIPS, incomplete 3rd and 6: 11 yd pass to Big Mike--nice out route on the SL 1st and 10: 10 yd curl to Big Mike broken up--incomplete 2nd and 10: Spiller no gain 3rd and 10: incomplete 20 yd to Woods; Manuel gets blasted on rush up middle; bad throw--maybe; but I like how he took hit. 5th Series (our own 6 with 2:04 left in 1st): 1st and 10: Incomplete pass to sideline, ball bounces at the 12; why are 11, 10, and 84 all in same 7 yd space? Miscommunication? 2nd and 10: Spiller run for 18 1st and 10: Manuel rolls right hits Big Mike for 20 yds---his best play of the day 1st and 10: Pass complete to 84 for 7-----HOLDING on 77--bad call 1st and 20: Spiller run for 18-----HOLDING 1st and 30: Fred run minus 5 2nd and 35: Penalty on EJ for passing LOS 3rd and 40: Screen to Fred for 10 6th Series: 1st and 10: Spiller run minus 1 2nd and 11: Pass to Smith for 7 3rd and 4: Penalty on Bucs 1st and 10: Screen to Spiller for 12 yds---PENALTY on Bills 2nd and 20: EJ's worst play of the day IMO, sack fumble TD 7th Series (our own 20 with 8:16 left in 2nd): 1st and 10: Good ball to Hogan but a great tip by Bucs LB; incomplete 2nd and 10: Spiller run for 2 3rd and 8: Sack--Left DE rush comes unabated--Henderson was supposed to "fan" b/c 84 goes for pass; but he did not. DE comes clean. That's not on EJ b/c that wasn't an LB or DB showing blitz---that's an Oline call. All he could do was protect the ball and curl up. 8th series came with less than minute left. Who cares at that point. Summary----the O was just out of sync. Too much shuffling on that Oline has been going on--this is going to take some time. Too many mistakes. Pears sucks. Woods and Chandler slipping. Costly penalties at the wrong time. EJ threw 2 bad balls IMO. The one where he was smacked to the ground, and that 1st pass on the 5th series---ball to no one where I mentioned 3 guys were in same area. I'm not trying to convince you that EJ is going to fine or great. I'm just saying I feel better after watching this again and I hope after the team watches the film its clear to them to its all fixable and they still have faith in EJ. At least if Goodwin's tweet told us anything, they seem to. For those to lazy to click the link Promo posted. Good stuff http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/170032-bills-first-half-vs-bucs-broken-down/ Pears at RG is scary. keeping Legursky on the roster is scarier. Chandler settled down once he stopped tripping over that pesky 45 yard line.
JPS Posted August 25, 2014 Posted August 25, 2014 The majority of pass plays in the first half. If you want to go back and do a breakdown of how many plays he had fewer than 3 seconds, go for it. Here's the closest thing we have to a breakdown on this board: http://forums.twobil...cs-broken-down/ As I said above, to say that EJ didn't have "anything that resembles time", to me, says that there's a distorted view of how much time a QB should be afforded. Getting more than 3 seconds in the NFL is an absolute gift to any QB. If that's what it takes for this kid to make plays, then he's not good enough (for clarity, I'm not saying that that's the case, only that he's got to be able to make plays in less time than that). Asking an OL to protect for longer than that on a consistent basis is asking too much. Watch Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wilson/etc. and count how long it takes for the ball to come out. They are not standing back there all day on most plays. Snap, drop, delivery. That's what it takes. I actually don't think it's a problem of "slow eyes". He can make quick reads; we've seen him do it. It looked more to me like a confidence issue on Saturday. He needs to just let it rip. He needs, IMO, more "confidence throws" early on in the game. Get him in a rhythm and let him roll. Having Sammy around will help that IMO. Here I'll disagree with you. I see an occasional quick read and he is all over the place with accuracy. But hoping for his confidence to suddenly appear in games based on what happens seems unlikely. I've seen so may QBs look confident against us, including backups, but I just don't see it with ANY of our QBs. I'm actually surprised when a good passing play happens. On a good note and regardless of the score, I think the defense looks good to great.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 25, 2014 Author Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) So now re-watching a TV broadcast and listing the down, distance, and result qualifies as "breaking down film"? Our standards are indeed crumbling. You left out the analyzing each play part. I do not disagree EJ is not good right now. What I am saying is try to understand what is happening to him. He is an inexperienced QB. The coaches give him plays to execute but the plays immediately break down. Does he know how to respond to that. No. He's still learning that. That is what I think we are seeing in EJ. But is it because EJ's a lost cause or because he's still learning to play in the NFL NFL? Edited August 25, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
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