We don't have so much a QB problem as an O-line problem.

[FireChan]

 

 

The greatest thing about this thread is who started it. If there is one thing PTR is, it's a blinded, cool aid drinkin, unconditional Bills fan. Good for him and other like him.

 

You've been around here long enough to expect these kinds of threads. Anyone who watched EJ's act in college knew that he was gonna bust quickly. I made my thoughts well known on draft day and that was pretty much the last time I was active on this board. His selection was nothing but desperation just like this PTR excuse thread. Jimbo dumbed down the offense for him for him at FSU and made it a one read offense. Jimbo knew he could simply out-man anyone in the weak ACC and it worked until they need EJ to pull one out himself like every good/great QB. They needed him in the NC st game and he couldn't muster a point against a terrible team the entire second half... and while you're at it go watch the Gators game that year and you'll see a QB unable to carry a team when it's desperate. EJ has always been incapable of putting a team on his back, despite having an incredible amount of talent around him, and of course it wasn't going to change in the NFL.

 

The fact that Whaley, Marrone and whoever else "had say" thought it was okay to go into this season with the trio of fail is beyond me.

 

 

PTR, keep battling man. Cue CB97's, "he got farther than you in life dude!"

 

Well said.

[Rico]

The greatest thing about this thread is who started it. If there is one thing PTR is, it's a blinded, cool aid drinkin, unconditional Bills fan. Good for him and other like him.

 

You've been around here long enough to expect these kinds of threads. Anyone who watched EJ's act in college knew that he was gonna bust quickly. I made my thoughts well known on draft day and that was pretty much the last time I was active on this board. His selection was nothing but desperation just like this PTR excuse thread. Jimbo dumbed down the offense for him for him at FSU and made it a one read offense. Jimbo knew he could simply out-man anyone in the weak ACC and it worked until they need EJ to pull one out himself like every good/great QB. They needed him in the NC st game and he couldn't muster a point against a terrible team the entire second half... and while you're at it go watch the Gators game that year and you'll see a QB unable to carry a team when it's desperate. EJ has always been incapable of putting a team on his back, despite having an incredible amount of talent around him, and of course it wasn't going to change in the NFL.

 

The fact that Whaley, Marrone and whoever else "had say" thought it was okay to go into this season with the trio of fail is beyond me.

 

 

PTR, keep battling man. Cue CB97's, "he got farther than you in life dude!"

Outstanding!

 

Well, if EJ doesn't pan out (and it's not looking good right now), I give you props, since you emphatically called it back then.

[Augie]

There was a play before the TD, I think it was 2nd and 10, EJ scrambled to his left and, instead of throwing it away, ran out of bounds for a four yard sack-loss. It was the kind of play that only a raw rookie makes - it displayed zero situational awareness. It made me sick to my stomach.

That play jumped out at me too. I'd have been disappointed in a high school QB who made that error. I hope the game slows down for him soon. Hey, it could happen.

[Maury Ballstein]

But then on the other hand, it's preseason and no one will remember any of this a month down the road.

 

I'd wait until week 7ish to claim victory on the EJ is a bust thing.

 

Regular season week 1 last year EJ looked solid vs the Pats. Guess it's easy to forget.

[thewildrabbit]

Last year that Buccaneers D line was outstanding against the Bills O line in week 14, and dominated them all game. The result was a 6-27 loss on the road. They sacked EJ 7 times that game, and shut down the Bills run game for 22 attempts rushing for 67 to total yards.

 

Those numbers should jump out and gave anyone who thinks that O line is good enough... a cold hard slap in the face!

 

 

Now this year that first string defense for the Buc's looked about the same as last year, and so did the Bills offense. That "hurry up and punt" offense looks about the same as it did last season.

 

That first half went like this, INT, punt, fumble, punt, punt, fumble, punt!! If this sorry first half performance of the "entire" team doesn't give Bills fans pause for concern that this is more then just a QB problem. Then hey, ignore the fact that the run game didn't work either. The line was constantly flagged for penalties, couldn't hold blocks, and was mostly ineffectual against that first string Buc's D.

 

 

Let me tell you about a team that drafted a QB 3rd overall, and then went to the playoffs in his first season. Since then that team went 11-5, 9-5, 13-3, 10-6, 13-3, and just last year went 4-12 because of injuries to the starting WR's & RB, and a bad line. If this story doesn't exemplify what it means to have a solid team around the QB in order for them to succeed. Then explaining anything further is wasted on fans who just want to focus and vent about the QB position.

Wanna know what position that team drafted with a top 10 pick in the 2014 draft, an OT. Understand folks, its a team game, and every position is important.

 

 

Bottom line: One preseason game and two weeks to go before the opener at Chicago. Lets hope that offense gets it together by then.

[JPS]

I can't believe there is anyone who still sees promise in this kid. It's amazing the patience and optimism still exists. I guess you see what you want to....

[Dibs]

I can't believe there is anyone who still sees promise in this kid. It's amazing the patience and optimism still exists. I guess you see what you want to....

 

There's a little bit of irony there me thinks.

[Nitro]

Stick with a starting five and let them develop chemistry. A good line will help a young QB.

[Doug Flutie Band]

Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front.

 

There are only a handful of posters with such unknowingly warped perceptions of reality that could make a post like this.

 

"We don't have so much a QB problem as an O line problem".

 

Seriously, this is borderline trolling.

[reddogblitz]

There are only a handful of posters with such unknowingly warped perceptions of reality that could make a post like this.

 

"We don't have so much a QB problem as an O line problem".

 

Seriously, this is borderline trolling.

 

Count me with the trolls.

 

While EJ did have some bad plays like the fumble, the rest of the team stunk it up to high as bad or worse. The OLine couldn't open holes, pass block, or keep their hands to themselves; That's EJ's fault.. How many big plays got negated by penalty? That's EJ's fault. CJ fumbled. That's EJ's fault.The defense gave up long 3rd down conversion after long 3rd down conversion resulting in long drives resulting in points.. That's EJ's fault. Chandler fell down. That's EJ's fault.

 

Blaming all the teams woes on the back of the QB is lazy football fansmanship IMHO. The whole team stunk. EVERYONE needs to play better including the coaches, waterboys, other players, and EJ.

 

It's only preseason. I saw several other PS games with sputtering offenses. San Francisco's 1st team offense scored it first TD today. It ain't the end of the world, really.

[PromoTheRobot]

There are only a handful of posters with such unknowingly warped perceptions of reality that could make a post like this.

 

"We don't have so much a QB problem as an O line problem".

 

Seriously, this is borderline trolling.

 

I stand by my position and obviously others see what I see.

[OldTimer1960]

Last year that Buccaneers D line was outstanding against the Bills O line in week 14, and dominated them all game. The result was a 6-27 loss on the road. They sacked EJ 7 times that game, and shut down the Bills run game for 22 attempts rushing for 67 to total yards.

 

Those numbers should jump out and gave anyone who thinks that O line is good enough... a cold hard slap in the face!

 

 

Now this year that first string defense for the Buc's looked about the same as last year, and so did the Bills offense. That "hurry up and punt" offense looks about the same as it did last season.

 

That first half went like this, INT, punt, fumble, punt, punt, fumble, punt!! If this sorry first half performance of the "entire" team doesn't give Bills fans pause for concern that this is more then just a QB problem. Then hey, ignore the fact that the run game didn't work either. The line was constantly flagged for penalties, couldn't hold blocks, and was mostly ineffectual against that first string Buc's D.

 

 

Let me tell you about a team that drafted a QB 3rd overall, and then went to the playoffs in his first season. Since then that team went 11-5, 9-5, 13-3, 10-6, 13-3, and just last year went 4-12 because of injuries to the starting WR's & RB, and a bad line. If this story doesn't exemplify what it means to have a solid team around the QB in order for them to succeed. Then explaining anything further is wasted on fans who just want to focus and vent about the QB position.

Wanna know what position that team drafted with a top 10 pick in the 2014 draft, an OT. Understand folks, its a team game, and every position is important.

 

 

Bottom line: One preseason game and two weeks to go before the opener at Chicago. Lets hope that offense gets it together by then.

 

+1

But, but, but the "experts" on WGR say it is all the QB...

[thebandit27]

I think that some of you folks have a very distorted view on how much time a QB is to be afforded to deliver the football in the NFL. 3 seconds is all a guy should expect. The ball needs to come out. It's not like the kid was getting blasted at the back of his drop on every play, or even most plays for that matter.

 

In the NFL, if you have 3 seconds, the ball needs to come out, and it needs to be delivered accurately. I've seen EJ do this, just not consistently.

 

Saturday against TB, he had 3 seconds on most plays, and he folded like a lawn chair. Now, he hadn't done that all preseason, so I'm not altogether giving up on the kid, but he's got to be better than that.

 

No, the OL didn't play well. Yes, EJ had time to make throws, and he didn't do it. When the TB backups came in, and he had 4 and 5 seconds to throw the ball, he looked great. The problem is that no QB is going to consistently be afforded that kind of time in the pocket in the regular season.

 

If a team can't pressure with 4 pass rushers, they'll send 5. Then they'll send 6, or 7, or 8. The point is, a defense can always send more rushers than you as an offense can block. That's why beating pressure always has--and always will--come down to the QB, not the OL.

 

I like EJ, and I do think he can get better. What I saw on Saturday was very worrisome. We can chalk some of it up to play-calling, and yes, if the OL played really well it would help. The majority of it is on his shoulders to make plays, because that's what great QBs do, and that's why Seattle can win the Superbowl with a horrific OL. It's also why Petyon Manning can lose his all-pro LT, have him replaced by a street FA, and still be the least-sacked QB in the NFL.

 

/rant over

[GA BILLS FAN]

^ +1

 

A good QB gains perspective and begins to understand PRE snap what the defense is doing and makes adjustments to ENSURE he can get rid of the ball quickly. Recognition and reaction are two critical skills a good QB must have.

 

I posted earlier, I think they need to put EJ on the move more often, he does seem to be a better QB when he is rolling out or moving -- standing in pocket he lacks the presence or awareness that is critical.

 

 

[JPS]

I think that some of you folks have a very distorted view on how much time a QB is to be afforded to deliver the football in the NFL. 3 seconds is all a guy should expect. The ball needs to come out. It's not like the kid was getting blasted at the back of his drop on every play, or even most plays for that matter.

 

In the NFL, if you have 3 seconds, the ball needs to come out, and it needs to be delivered accurately. I've seen EJ do this, just not consistently.

 

Saturday against TB, he had 3 seconds on most plays, and he folded like a lawn chair. Now, he hadn't done that all preseason, so I'm not altogether giving up on the kid, but he's got to be better than that.

 

No, the OL didn't play well. Yes, EJ had time to make throws, and he didn't do it. When the TB backups came in, and he had 4 and 5 seconds to throw the ball, he looked great. The problem is that no QB is going to consistently be afforded that kind of time in the pocket in the regular season.

 

If a team can't pressure with 4 pass rushers, they'll send 5. Then they'll send 6, or 7, or 8. The point is, a defense can always send more rushers than you as an offense can block. That's why beating pressure always has--and always will--come down to the QB, not the OL.

 

I like EJ, and I do think he can get better. What I saw on Saturday was very worrisome. We can chalk some of it up to play-calling, and yes, if the OL played really well it would help. The majority of it is on his shoulders to make plays, because that's what great QBs do, and that's why Seattle can win the Superbowl with a horrific OL. It's also why Petyon Manning can lose his all-pro LT, have him replaced by a street FA, and still be the least-sacked QB in the NFL.

 

/rant over

It's official. Bandit is the smartest dude around here. Well said. Someone said EJ had "slow eyes" and it didn't make sense to me until you watch him play. I don't think this is something you can improve upon. It's not the RAM. It's the motherboard.

[The Big Cat]

I think that some of you folks have a very distorted view on how much time a QB is to be afforded to deliver the football in the NFL. 3 seconds is all a guy should expect. The ball needs to come out. It's not like the kid was getting blasted at the back of his drop on every play, or even most plays for that matter.

 

In the NFL, if you have 3 seconds, the ball needs to come out, and it needs to be delivered accurately. I've seen EJ do this, just not consistently.

 

Saturday against TB, he had 3 seconds on most plays, and he folded like a lawn chair. Now, he hadn't done that all preseason, so I'm not altogether giving up on the kid, but he's got to be better than that.

 

No, the OL didn't play well. Yes, EJ had time to make throws, and he didn't do it. When the TB backups came in, and he had 4 and 5 seconds to throw the ball, he looked great. The problem is that no QB is going to consistently be afforded that kind of time in the pocket in the regular season.

 

If a team can't pressure with 4 pass rushers, they'll send 5. Then they'll send 6, or 7, or 8. The point is, a defense can always send more rushers than you as an offense can block. That's why beating pressure always has--and always will--come down to the QB, not the OL.

 

I like EJ, and I do think he can get better. What I saw on Saturday was very worrisome. We can chalk some of it up to play-calling, and yes, if the OL played really well it would help. The majority of it is on his shoulders to make plays, because that's what great QBs do, and that's why Seattle can win the Superbowl with a horrific OL. It's also why Petyon Manning can lose his all-pro LT, have him replaced by a street FA, and still be the least-sacked QB in the NFL.

 

/rant over

 

I"m quite curious which plays you're referring to.

 

I've watched the game twice again on the condensed broadcast, and it wasn't until well after the wheels came off that EJ had anything that even remotely resembled time.

[thebandit27]

I"m quite curious which plays you're referring to.

 

I've watched the game twice again on the condensed broadcast, and it wasn't until well after the wheels came off that EJ had anything that even remotely resembled time.

 

The majority of pass plays in the first half. If you want to go back and do a breakdown of how many plays he had fewer than 3 seconds, go for it.

 

Here's the closest thing we have to a breakdown on this board:

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/170032-bills-first-half-vs-bucs-broken-down/

 

As I said above, to say that EJ didn't have "anything that resembles time", to me, says that there's a distorted view of how much time a QB should be afforded. Getting more than 3 seconds in the NFL is an absolute gift to any QB. If that's what it takes for this kid to make plays, then he's not good enough (for clarity, I'm not saying that that's the case, only that he's got to be able to make plays in less time than that). Asking an OL to protect for longer than that on a consistent basis is asking too much.

 

Watch Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Wilson/etc. and count how long it takes for the ball to come out. They are not standing back there all day on most plays. Snap, drop, delivery. That's what it takes.

 

It's official. Bandit is the smartest dude around here. Well said. Someone said EJ had "slow eyes" and it didn't make sense to me until you watch him play. I don't think this is something you can improve upon. It's not the RAM. It's the motherboard.

 

I actually don't think it's a problem of "slow eyes". He can make quick reads; we've seen him do it. It looked more to me like a confidence issue on Saturday. He needs to just let it rip.

 

^ +1

 

A good QB gains perspective and begins to understand PRE snap what the defense is doing and makes adjustments to ENSURE he can get rid of the ball quickly. Recognition and reaction are two critical skills a good QB must have.

 

I posted earlier, I think they need to put EJ on the move more often, he does seem to be a better QB when he is rolling out or moving -- standing in pocket he lacks the presence or awareness that is critical.

 

He needs, IMO, more "confidence throws" early on in the game. Get him in a rhythm and let him roll. Having Sammy around will help that IMO.

[GG]

I actually don't think it's a problem of "slow eyes". He can make quick reads; we've seen him do it. It looked more to me like a confidence issue on Saturday. He needs to just let it rip.

 

He needs, IMO, more "confidence throws" early on in the game. Get him in a rhythm and let him roll. Having Sammy around will help that IMO.

 

I think that was the biggest difference between the first & second half drives. He just didn't look comfortable at all in the first half, and it wasn't just because he had little time to throw on some plays. Again, the case of falling back on statistics or blaming others for his bad play. Whether it's a cliche or not, but he did not pass the eye test in the first half, and Lovie went after his weak points, and clearly rattled him. Whatever adjustments they made at the half seemed to work because EJ looked a lot more comfortable in his drop backs.

[FireChan]

Give us 4-5 seconds in the pocket consistently and Rex Grossman could take us to the playoffs.

[MarkAF43]

 

 

I actually don't think it's a problem of "slow eyes". He can make quick reads; we've seen him do it. It looked more to me like a confidence issue on Saturday. He needs to just let it rip.

 

 

 

 

I want to question this. Is it possible the "system" Hackett uses, ( i know, no planning in preseason), is one that has EJ thinking too much instead of dropping back and firing? Not trying to simplify things too much, but is it possible EJ is a drop back and let it rip guy and Hackett wants him looking specifically at target 1, then 2, then 3 and so on and so on?