GA BILLS FAN Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Hmmm... This just in THOSE ARE THE TOP THREE ACTIVE QBs IN THE GAME AND ARE PROBABLY ALL TOP TEN ALL TIME. They have started 186, 193, 240 games respectfully compared to 10 for EJ. Just so you know, I'll let you in on a little secret, the game plan for two out of the three QB,s is to do what Tampa did today, quick pressure up the middle. One of the first lessons I learned was "study the best if you want to be the best !" I'm NOT suggesting that EJ should be as good as those 3, that's why I threw in Fitz --- I'm suggesting that if you watch those 3 (who are the best at reading and reacting to defenses) you will see where EJ is creating a lot of the OLine issues himself --- the good thing about that is it CAN be taught -- he should get it in time --- however, accuracy and instincts might not be teachable and he has serious issues with both of those, too. Edited August 24, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN
OldTimer1960 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front. I have been staunch in my belief that EJ needs to be given at least a full season this year to determine if he can be a competent NFL QB, but that 1st half performance was worse than JP Losman ever put together. Still, I agree that the problems really began with the OL. No holes on 1st down runs and a myriad penalties put the offense in no-win position. I get that the OL has been shuffled and reshuffled over and over, but they were flat abysmal -and that is a LOT for an offense to overcome
26CornerBlitz Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Tim Tebow threw a couple dimes in his stint in the NFL, too. That's all it takes? A handful of good plays spread out over 10 games? I hope he ends up being great, like i said, the sample size is small. However, he's shown us nothing. Correction. He's shown you nothing. He's shown me inconsistency that translates to both good and bad quarterbacking. Edited August 24, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 The argument could have some merit if EJ managed a TD against a first string defense. Plus he's had one extra week of camp. He still looks too mechanical out there and does not yet have the instinct. Perfect example was the illegal forward pass. Too indecisive on the play and ended up making a very bad play. It's plays like that which don't appear on the start sheet, but when you see them live, you continue to scratch your head. He also hasn't had his #1 WR in at least half of those drives, a OL that hasn't been good and shuffling all around, and has Hackett as an OC. He's not going to be able to carry this team this year. He's an inexperienced young QB. He's going to need help from the o-line the defense, RBs, WRs, but most importantly his OC has to put him and the offense in good situations. When the announcers are saying you only ran four different plays in the first half that's not getting it done to say the least. One of the first lessons I learned was "study the best if you want to be the best !" I'm NOT suggesting that EJ should be as good as those 3, that's why I threw in Fitz --- I'm suggesting that if you watch those 3 (who are the best at reading and reacting to defenses) you will see where EJ is creating a lot of the OLine issues himself --- the good thing about that is it CAN be taught -- he should get it in time --- however, accuracy and instincts might not be teachable and he has serious issues with both of those, too. I'm just saying all including Fitz are veteran QBs they've had time to work on their game for years EJ has not had those same luxuries.
WotAGuy Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly are we hiding behind this limited play book anyway? Are we really going to spring an entirely new offense on the Bears? Will we not be using any of the plays we ran last year? And is sending your young, inexperienced franchise QB up the creek without a paddle the best way to "develop" him? I can see that we might have a few new plays or protection schemes in our pocket, but it just isn't common sense to hamstring ourselves with this limited play book crap. As Lou Saban would say: " God almighty!! Why do we DO that??" Edited August 24, 2014 by WotAGuy
Mango Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 ugh. this board has been a pain with the sky is falling. the entire O was terrible in the first half. Christ, every time we seemed to get something going we got a penalty, then 17 more in a row. Concerned yes, but EJ did some nice things today, and we really do have to stop running players out of town. EJ is progressing, he may not be the answer in the end, but he is progressing. Eli was putrid for YEARS, and still has head scratcher games. Everybody step up, and see if we can continue to progress our young QB even further through the course of the season. If he shows progress as the season goes on, he will remain our QB, and we should be happy with a young QB that continues to improve.
Agent 91 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 The "prevent D" didn't prevent him from scoring 2 TDs. PTR, I'm glad you are on board to post some knowledge here Fans... not the team are about to make me not watch this team. Its infuriating. I want to see some of these posters highlight tapes from college. Let alone the pros. Maybe EJ isn't good. Maybe the coaches suck. Lets dissect it. Lets do it intelligently. Lets not pick and choose who we crucify/ are fanboys for. What about the team. Lets not make excuses for coaches. They are every bit as disfunctional as the players. I hold them way more accountable than players because this is a young team. We need coaches that will teach. This team is one large lump of clay ready to be molded. Who is gonna be the guy for that
MDH Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I watched every bad EJ play in slow-mo to see where the breakdown occurred. Almost every time he's on the verge of being sacked or has a rusher in his face. Miraculously in the second half he is nearly prefect on two TD drives. So if he's so incapable how does he pull that off? Maybe he had more time? How accurate did McCown look when he was pressured? I agree with this but you're missing one important thing: All starting caliber QBs are good when they have great protection. It's how they get starting gigs in the first place. If a QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when standing tall in the pocket they'd never have made a team, much less start. What makes a QB good is his ability to operate under less than ideal circumstances. So yeah, EJ was much better when he was protected but he's got to be able to make quick decisions when things break down. He's not there yet but then again I don't expect him to be as he was viewed as a bit of a project and he's started less than a full season. Hopefully the light goes on sometime this season and things start to slow down for him. Otherwise it's going to be another long season.
KOKBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I agree with this but you're missing one important thing: All starting caliber QBs are good when they have great protection. It's how they get starting gigs in the first place. If a QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when standing tall in the pocket they'd never have made a team, much less start. What makes a QB good is his ability to operate under less than ideal circumstances. So yeah, EJ was much better when he was protected but he's got to be able to make quick decisions when things break down. He's not there yet but then again I don't expect him to be as he was viewed as a bit of a project and he's started less than a full season. Hopefully the light goes on sometime this season and things start to slow down for him. Otherwise it's going to be another long season. The play where he scrambled, bought time, and hit Williams on the sideline (nice job by Williams to get both feet down!!!)...THAT'S the kind of play that can take EJ's game to the next level...Big Ben has made a living doing that in order to keep drives alive...Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers are both fantastic in that area...EJ needs to do a lot more of exactly that kind of thing...I think having Sammy on the field will help in that area as well...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) The play where he scrambled, bought time, and hit Williams on the sideline (nice job by Williams to get both feet down!!!)...THAT'S the kind of play that can take EJ's game to the next level...Big Ben has made a living doing that in order to keep drives alive...Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers are both fantastic in that area...EJ needs to do a lot more of exactly that kind of thing...I think having Sammy on the field will help in that area as well... Only his bad throws should be noted on TSW. Shame on you! Edited August 24, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 I agree with this but you're missing one important thing: All starting caliber QBs are good when they have great protection. It's how they get starting gigs in the first place. If a QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when standing tall in the pocket they'd never have made a team, much less start. What makes a QB good is his ability to operate under less than ideal circumstances. So yeah, EJ was much better when he was protected but he's got to be able to make quick decisions when things break down. He's not there yet but then again I don't expect him to be as he was viewed as a bit of a project and he's started less than a full season. Hopefully the light goes on sometime this season and things start to slow down for him. Otherwise it's going to be another long season. What you are saying is a young QB had to have that ability immediately. Maybe they do.
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 I watched every bad EJ play in slow-mo to see where the breakdown occurred. Almost every time he's on the verge of being sacked or has a rusher in his face. Miraculously in the second half he is nearly prefect on two TD drives. So if he's so incapable how does he pull that off? Maybe he had more time? How accurate did McCown look when he was pressured? In slo mo were you also able to see that EJ doesn't know how to step in, out and around the pocket when he's being "pressured"? Peyton Manning's pocket breaks down all the time. Peyton isn't as quick as EJ. He steps up when need be, steps left when need be and so on and so forth. On top of that he's an accurate passer. EJ needs to use the pocket better when it breaks down and start using his God Given ability and run with the ball (cautiously of course). Russell Wilson and Kaepernick do it all day long. Keep the chains moving.
KOKBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Only his bad throws should be noted on TSW. Shame on you! I'm a bad person...
thewildrabbit Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front. My man, coming around to my point of view with the line troubles! It was the first time for those four to start at those positions. Glenn, Richardson, Wood, Pears, Henderson. So they still have two weeks to get it together. Like someone else stated the OG position is downright scary, and I doubt it gets better with Williams playing. And like another mentioned the playbook was very limited, and no Sammy. To put another perspective on it, EJ didn't trip over his own feet, he didn't fail to open holes, hold blocks or get so many penalties. Lets just hope they improve for the Bears game.
dave mcbride Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Hmmm... This just in THOSE ARE THE TOP THREE ACTIVE QBs IN THE GAME AND ARE PROBABLY ALL TOP TEN ALL TIME. They have started 186, 193, 240 games respectfully compared to 10 for EJ. Just so you know, I'll let you in on a little secret, the game plan for two out of the three QB,s is to do what Tampa did today, quick pressure up the middle. A better example - look up the sack rates of flutie and johnson, both of whom played behind the same line. An atrocious line is obviously a problem, but more often than not the lion's share of the blame for the sack rate goes to the qb. The bills line right now is more talented than the one fitz played behind, btw.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2014 Author Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) In slo mo were you also able to see that EJ doesn't know how to step in, out and around the pocket when he's being "pressured"? Peyton Manning's pocket breaks down all the time. Peyton isn't as quick as EJ. He steps up when need be, steps left when need be and so on and so forth. On top of that he's an accurate passer. EJ needs to use the pocket better when it breaks down and start using his God Given ability and run with the ball (cautiously of course). Russell Wilson and Kaepernick do it all day long. Keep the chains moving. Again, is this a skill one is born with or learns to do? Maybe he should have learned it in college. If that's the case then maybe he is a dud. Edited August 24, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
....lybob Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Have EJ repeat this mantra - slow is smooth, smooth is fast
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 A better example - look up the sack rates of flutie and johnson, both of whom played behind the same line. An atrocious line is obviously a problem, but more often than not the lion's share of the blame for the sack rate goes to the qb. The bills line right now is more talented than the one fitz played behind, btw. They are probably more talented, but they haven't had Glenn and the line today couldn't have beat anyone. They were as horrible as the 1st half play calling.
The Big Cat Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Five pages and nobody's mentioned the mince meat the Lovie led talent on Tampas DLINE has made of EVERY opponent they've faced thus far?
Billsguy Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Our offensive woes today started with failures on the O-line, in both pass and run blocking. We are so focused on what EJ is doing we completely miss the eff-ups up front. Agreed the offensive line is a mess. The defensive backfield is a mess. The tight end position is embarrassingly poor. The QB situation is a complete cluster "mess". How does this add up to a winning team? It doesn't. This is another reason why giving up two 1st round picks for a WR was a luxury the Bills couldn't afford. Maybe the next owners will hire professionals to do the job correctly. Marrone looks clueless. Whaley looks like he is in over his head. Brandon was a marketing guy who schmoozed his way into a position for which he has no aptitude. The Bills desperately need leadership from a savvy owner who understands that you hire the best people possible. Was Marrone the very top candidate in their entire football universe to become head coach? He wasn't in the top 100 imo. As a comparison, the Eagles went out and hired Chip Kelly from one of the three best college football programs in the country that had an outstanding record. The Bills hired a guy from a mid-tier mediocre conference with a mediocre record. Which team has a brighter future and is more fun to watch?
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