EJ showed he can move the ball

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Posters who are killing EJ for the putrid 1st half performance vs the Bucs should go back and review the play by play of the Bills' drives or re-watch the 1st half: http://www.nfl.com/g...lyze=playbyplay

 

Buffalo Bills at 15:00

1-10-BUF 20 (14:59) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 38-F.Summers to BUF 26 for 6 yards (51-D.Lansanah; 27-J.Banks).

2-4-BUF 26 (14:38) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 27 for 1 yard (98-C.McDonald, 59-M.Foster).

3-3-BUF 27 (14:11) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 31 for 4 yards (27-J.Banks). PENALTY on TB-59-M.Foster, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at BUF 31.

1-10-BUF 46 (13:57) 28-C.Spiller left end to 50 for 4 yards (27-J.Banks, 59-M.Foster).

2-6- (13:47) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short right to 22-F.Jackson.

3-6- (13:44) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left intended for 84-S.Chandler INTERCEPTED by 38-D.Goldson at TB 44. 38-D.Goldson to TB 43 for -1 yards (84-S.Chandler).

 

Buffalo Bills at 11:46

1-10-BUF 6 (11:46) 22-F.Jackson right guard to BUF 6 for no gain (98-C.McDonald, 51-D.Lansanah).

2-10-BUF 6 (11:20) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 9 for 3 yards (59-M.Foster).

3-7-BUF 9 (10:47) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 12 for 3 yards (54-L.David, 50-D.Fletcher).

4-4-BUF 12 (10:12) 8-B.Moorman punts 34 yards to BUF 46, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-65-G.Sanborn.

 

Buffalo Bills at 09:27

1-10-TB 42 (9:27) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to TB 43 for -1 yards (51-D.Lansanah, 93-G.McCoy).

2-11-TB 43 (8:58) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 28-C.Spiller to TB 40 for 3 yards (54-L.David). FUMBLES (54-L.David), RECOVERED by TB-59-M.Foster at TB 37. 59-M.Foster to BUF 39 for 24 yards (3-E.Manuel).

 

Buffalo Bills at 06:28

9-M.Koenen kicks 70 yards from TB 35 to BUF -5. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 17 for 22 yards (29-L.Johnson).

1-10-BUF 17 (6:24) 28-C.Spiller right end to BUF 21 for 4 yards (59-M.Foster, 94-A.Clayborn).

2-6-BUF 21 (5:56) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short right to 10-R.Woods.

3-6-BUF 21 (5:52) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 19-Mi.Williams to BUF 33 for 12 yards (27-J.Banks).

1-10-BUF 33 (5:36) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 19-Mi.Williams (27-J.Banks).

2-10-BUF 33 (5:34) 28-C.Spiller left end pushed ob at BUF 33 for no gain (27-J.Banks).

3-10-BUF 33 (5:08) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 10-R.Woods [98-C.McDonald].

4-10-BUF 33 (5:03) 8-B.Moorman punts 41 yards to TB 26, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 86-S.Patton to TB 34 for 8 yards (81-M.Easley, 33-R.Brooks).

 

Buffalo Bills at 02:04

1-10-BUF 7 (2:04) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 10-R.Woods.

2-10-BUF 7 (2:00) (Shotgun) 28-C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 25 for 18 yards (23-M.Barron).

1-10-BUF 25 (1:31) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass deep right to 19-Mi.Williams pushed ob at BUF 45 for 20 yards (23-M.Barron).

1-10-BUF 45 (1:11) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 84-S.Chandler to 50 for 5 yards (54-L.David, 59-M.Foster). PENALTY on BUF-77-C.Glenn, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 45 - No Play.

1-20-BUF 35 (:52) 28-C.Spiller left guard to TB 47 for 18 yards (33-D.Carr). PENALTY on BUF-79-E.Pears, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 35 - No Play.

1-30-BUF 25 (:30) (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 20 for -5 yards (93-G.McCoy, 98-C.McDonald).

2-35-BUF 20 (15:00) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 22-F.Jackson. PENALTY on BUF-3-E.Manuel, Illegal Forward Pass, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 20.

3-40-BUF 15 (14:52) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 25 for 10 yards (54-L.David).

4-30-BUF 25 (14:15) 8-B.Moorman punts 27 yards to TB 48, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-65-G.Sanborn.

 

Buffalo Bills at 09:58

9-M.Koenen kicks 67 yards from TB 35 to BUF -2. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 20 for 22 yards (57-D.Munoz). Penalty on TB-[67d], Offside on Free Kick, offsetting, enforced at TB 35 - No Play. Penalty on BUF-85-L.Smith, Offensive Holding, offsetting.

9-M.Koenen kicks 65 yards from TB 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-BUF 20 (9:52) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 19 for -1 yards (59-M.Foster, 98-C.McDonald).

2-11-BUF 19 (9:30) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 85-L.Smith to BUF 27 for 8 yards (54-L.David, 51-D.Lansanah).

3-3-BUF 27 (8:58) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 10-R.Woods (90-M.Johnson). Penalty on TB-33-D.Carr, Defensive Holding, declined. PENALTY on TB-27-J.Banks, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 27 - No Play.

1-10-BUF 32 (8:53) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 28-C.Spiller to BUF 44 for 12 yards (59-M.Foster). PENALTY on BUF-70-E.Wood, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 32 - No Play.

1-20-BUF 22 (8:34) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel sacked at BUF 17 for -5 yards (sack split by 90-M.Johnson and 94-A.Clayborn). FUMBLES (90-M.Johnson), RECOVERED by TB-98-C.McDonald at BUF 17. 98-C.McDonald for 17 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Official challenged the runner was down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field was confirmed.

 

Buffalo Bills at 08:21

10-C.Barth kicks 68 yards from TB 35 to BUF -3. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 26 for 29 yards (58-K.Glaud, 26-Q.Pointer).

1-10-BUF 26 (8:16) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 15-C.Hogan (59-M.Foster).

2-10-BUF 26 (8:11) (Shotgun) 28-C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 28 for 2 yards (59-M.Foster).

3-8-BUF 28 (7:42) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel sacked at BUF 23 for -5 yards (74-L.English).

4-13-BUF 23 (7:10) 8-B.Moorman punts 59 yards to TB 18, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 86-S.Patton to TB 18 for no gain (27-D.Williams).

 

Buffalo Bills at 01:05

7-P.Murray kicks 66 yards from TB 35 to BUF -1. 11-T.Graham to BUF 17 for 18 yards (57-D.Munoz).

1-10-BUF 17 (:59) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 22-F.Jackson [94-A.Clayborn].

2-10-BUF 17 (:53) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel scrambles right end to BUF 23 for 6 yards. PENALTY on BUF-79-E.Pears, Offensive Holding, 8 yards, enforced at BUF 17 - No Play.

2-18-BUF 9 (:43) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 10 for 1 yard (90-M.Johnson, 98-C.McDonald).

 

 

While he certainly did not play perfectly, much of the blame for the horror show lies elsewhere.

 

It is tough to convert those 3rd and 40's.

[Reed83HOF]

It is tough to convert those 3rd and 40's.

 

Well It is hard to win in the NFL

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You mean like most young QBs?

 

Precisely. People want him to be 5-year vet in his prime. He's a young guy, and his learning curve seems steeper than some other guys. He is going to be up and down-- that's what you get when you go with a rookie.

[Dibs]

My only point is in responce to your post about that most fans can easily tell if a QB has got it...

 

Most fans were able to tell that every single one of them with the exception of the 1 year of statue-esque play of deadslow wre terrible and don't belong as a starting QB or in the NFL for that matter. As much as I hate Brady and say he sucks, he is a hell of a player that you can obviously play the game.

 

Ha ha not at all. Teams will stay married to a bad player longer than they should. Sports history is littered with that. The exceptions would be the Ravens & Pats*. they tend to let those players go and move on. Most GMs and HCs see it as a failure if a player didn't develop and will stay loyal longer than they should...

 

Fans see bad QB play(in a QBs first 2/3 seasons) and they react. They state that said QB will never be good and should be removed. In most cases they are going to be correct. This does not mean that they know more than the team's FO.....just that they are playing the odds(most won't pan out).

 

I'd be fairly confident that fans were calling for the dumping of Brees, Favre and Young in their first few seasons.....probably Aikman and Kelly as well.

 

Dumping a QB early is going to be the correct decission most of the time.......but it will give one a much smaller chance of being able to eventually find a Franchise QB overall.

[Reed83HOF]

 

Fans see bad QB play(in a QBs first 2/3 seasons) and they react. They state that said QB will never be good and should be removed. In most cases they are going to be correct. This does not mean that they know more than the team's FO.....just that they are playing the odds(most won't pan out).

 

I'd be fairly confident that fans were calling for the dumping of Brees, Favre and Young in their first few seasons.....probably Aikman and Kelly as well.

 

Dumping a QB early is going to be the correct decission most of the time.......but it will give one a much smaller chance of being able to eventually find a Franchise QB overall.

 

LOL you are right and I agree completely...

 

I was being an ass earlier with these posts

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Precisely. People want him to be 5-year vet in his prime. He's a young guy, and his learning curve seems steeper than some other guys. He is going to be up and down-- that's what you get when you go with a rookie.

 

Well the Bills have never drafted a QB that worked out right away. Flutie was a Vet, Kelly got his lumps out in the USFL, and Kemp came from the Chargers so I guess Bills fans have no patience. I do because I'm smart enough to know one season does not make a good QB.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

I like how most of the people that say EJ will never be a good QB and want him off of the team immediately...

 

(replaced by any vet currently available. Including Orton who retired and is nowhere in football shape by the way.)

 

 

... always have a disclaimer in their post to the effect of, "I'm still rooting for him"

 

 

I'm lost are we replacing him with a light pole or not?

[disco]

I like how most of the people that say EJ will never be a good QB and want him off of the team immediately...

(replaced by any vet currently available. Including Orton who retired and is nowhere in football shape by the way.)

... always have a disclaimer in their post to the effect of, "I'm still rooting for him"

I'm lost are we replacing him with a light pole or not?

 

You know he's not in football shape from where? That's a serious question.

 

I don't want EJ off the team at all. I just don't understand why suddenly having him be a backup for a bit is a bad thing. Who has he had to compete with for a starting QB job since getting drafted? Nobody. Literally nobody. How is that a healthy situation?

[The Big Cat]

EJ's not perfect. If you expect him to be, you're foolish.

 

EJ doesn't need a miracle to turn in a solid performance, but he's not good enough (yet) to carry the team by himself.

 

So, when his passes are off the mark and there are obvious mis-cues with his receivers and the OLine can't keep Dlinemen out of the backfield and the Oline is getting dinged with blocking/holding calls on every drive and they can't get the running game going, then EJ is going to struggle, and the whole offense with him.

 

It was painful watching the offense yesterday. But watching it a second time, it's clear that EJ was not fully to blame for yesterday's first half turd.

 

I'll cite four plays:

1. Following up on a nice first down catch on the sideline, Mike Williams let's another would-be first down bounce right off his arms.
    
   
2. Wide open, Robert Woods drives his man 18 yards up field, and turns for the ball two yards passed the first down marker. The throw--a timing throw--is put right at the marker, where Woods probably should have been. Those extra two yards put him out of range of the throw, and made him late to turn for it. It was clear that EJ wanted him to look for it at the marker.
    
   
3. Wide open down the seam, Robert Woods makes a Donald-Jonesesque mid-air adjustment only to whiff at the ball as the punting unit comes on. At the LOS, EJ released the ball with a defender parallel to the ground, burying his head in the QB's chest. All things considered, Woods, has to make a better play for that ball.
    
   
4. A defender lines up across from Mike Williams and comes off the edge, completely untouched, he's barreling down on EJ, who first looks to Williams up the seam, then checks to his outlet, Fred Jackson who's positioned just on the other side of the blitzing defender. The throw is awkward, and out of Jackson's reach, tough throw by EJ, but it looked like he wanted to go to Williams who was running free after the blitz, but never broke off his route for what would have been an easy first-down catch.
   

These miscues, combined with all the awful, terrible, horrible holding/blocking penalties. and yes, some errors by Manuel added up to one miserable looking offense.

 

I'm glad they mixed things up with the playcalling and came back in and put two TD's on the board. While the blocking up front was better, as was the flow between Manuel/Woods, Manuel/Chandler (who wasn't tripping over the hash mark giving up picks rather than getting catches/runs for first downs inside field goal range).

 

Folks blaming EJ have an agenda if they can't/won't/refuse to see these things.

[John from Riverside]

EJ's not perfect. If you expect him to be, you're foolish.

 

EJ doesn't need a miracle to turn in a solid performance, but he's not good enough (yet) to carry the team by himself.

 

So, when his passes are off the mark and there are obvious mis-cues with his receivers and the OLine can't keep Dlinemen out of the backfield and the Oline is getting dinged with blocking/holding calls on every drive and they can't get the running game going, then EJ is going to struggle, and the whole offense with him.

 

It was painful watching the offense yesterday. But watching it a second time, it's clear that EJ was not fully to blame for yesterday's first half turd.

 

I'll cite four plays:

1. Following up on a nice first down catch on the sideline, Mike Williams let's another would-be first down bounce right off his arms.
    
    
   
2. Wide open, Robert Woods drives his man 18 yards up field, and turns for the ball two yards passed the first down marker. The throw--a timing throw--is put right at the marker, where Woods probably should have been. Those extra two yards put him out of range of the throw, and made him late to turn for it. It was clear that EJ wanted him to look for it at the marker.
    
    
   
3. Wide open down the seam, Robert Woods makes a Donald-Jonesesque mid-air adjustment only to whiff at the ball as the punting unit comes on. At the LOS, EJ released the ball with a defender parallel to the ground, burying his head in the QB's chest. All things considered, Woods, has to make a better play for that ball.
    
    
   
4. A defender lines up across from Mike Williams and comes off the edge, completely untouched, he's barreling down on EJ, who first looks to Williams up the seam, then checks to his outlet, Fred Jackson who's positioned just on the other side of the blitzing defender. The throw is awkward, and out of Jackson's reach, tough throw by EJ, but it looked like he wanted to go to Williams who was running free after the blitz, but never broke off his route for what would have been an easy first-down catch.
   

These miscues, combined with all the awful, terrible, horrible holding/blocking penalties. and yes, some errors by Manuel added up to one miserable looking offense.

 

I'm glad they mixed things up with the playcalling and came back in and put two TD's on the board. While the blocking up front was better, as was the flow between Manuel/Woods, Manuel/Chandler (who wasn't tripping over the hash mark giving up picks rather than getting catches/runs for first downs inside field goal range).

 

Folks blaming EJ have an agenda if they can't/won't/refuse to see these things.

 

Solid post

[Kurt Warner]

This may sound crazy, but I really don't think Manuel played horribly yesterday, or the week before. Even before he was playing against the Bucs second string. Receivers were falling all over the place yesterday, one slip by Chandler led to one interception. The fumble returned for a TD was ugly... but those pissing and moaning that he had "plenty of time" to get rid of the ball on that play are simply digging into their "EJ sucks" pose. He saw Jackson open, true, but the position of his feet would have likely resulted in a pick-six had he just thrown it, the way so many suggested. True, little difference between a pick-six, and a fumble returned for a td, but I still would prefer him to just eat it there, than try a stupid pass. He has been making some nice throws, and his decision making has been pretty sound. Also, remember, no matter what you think of Hackett's play calling, there is absolutely no way we have seen anything close to the Bills playbook this season. I really have this feeling that Mike Williams is going to have a terrific season, and that can only help Manuel. I noticed, particularly yesterday, Manuel seems to be "trusting" his receivers a bit more, as many have been clamoring for. You have all come this far, why lose faith now?

I agree! I see slow improvement in EJ...it's too bad it can't come a little quicker but the only horrible play was his fumble. If Chandler didn't fall and the RB didn't fumble I think he would have looked a lot better.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

 

You know he's not in football shape from where? That's a serious question.

 

I don't want EJ off the team at all. I just don't understand why suddenly having him be a backup for a bit is a bad thing. Who has he had to compete with for a starting QB job since getting drafted? Nobody. Literally nobody. How is that a healthy situation?

 

 

Honestly I have no idea. But he retired and was not In anyone's camp. Dallas cut him in July because he did not show up for camp and prior OTR's. IIRC there were a couple of teams that went after him and he turned them down. Not like coming here would make him think he has a good chance at going deep into the playoffs. So I would expect he would turn down the Bills as well. I believe the Bears were at least one of the teams that spoke with him.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

EJ's not perfect. If you expect him to be, you're foolish.

 

EJ doesn't need a miracle to turn in a solid performance, but he's not good enough (yet) to carry the team by himself.

 

So, when his passes are off the mark and there are obvious mis-cues with his receivers and the OLine can't keep Dlinemen out of the backfield and the Oline is getting dinged with blocking/holding calls on every drive and they can't get the running game going, then EJ is going to struggle, and the whole offense with him.

 

It was painful watching the offense yesterday. But watching it a second time, it's clear that EJ was not fully to blame for yesterday's first half turd.

 

I'll cite four plays:

1. Following up on a nice first down catch on the sideline, Mike Williams let's another would-be first down bounce right off his arms.
    
   
2. Wide open, Robert Woods drives his man 18 yards up field, and turns for the ball two yards passed the first down marker. The throw--a timing throw--is put right at the marker, where Woods probably should have been. Those extra two yards put him out of range of the throw, and made him late to turn for it. It was clear that EJ wanted him to look for it at the marker.
    
   
3. Wide open down the seam, Robert Woods makes a Donald-Jonesesque mid-air adjustment only to whiff at the ball as the punting unit comes on. At the LOS, EJ released the ball with a defender parallel to the ground, burying his head in the QB's chest. All things considered, Woods, has to make a better play for that ball.
    
   
4. A defender lines up across from Mike Williams and comes off the edge, completely untouched, he's barreling down on EJ, who first looks to Williams up the seam, then checks to his outlet, Fred Jackson who's positioned just on the other side of the blitzing defender. The throw is awkward, and out of Jackson's reach, tough throw by EJ, but it looked like he wanted to go to Williams who was running free after the blitz, but never broke off his route for what would have been an easy first-down catch.
   

These miscues, combined with all the awful, terrible, horrible holding/blocking penalties. and yes, some errors by Manuel added up to one miserable looking offense.

 

I'm glad they mixed things up with the playcalling and came back in and put two TD's on the board. While the blocking up front was better, as was the flow between Manuel/Woods, Manuel/Chandler (who wasn't tripping over the hash mark giving up picks rather than getting catches/runs for first downs inside field goal range).

 

Folks blaming EJ have an agenda if they can't/won't/refuse to see these things.

 

I will have to re-watch this, because when I saw it live, all four of these plays looked like they were on EJ. All four inaccurate throws. The first one to Williams easily could have been picked, if I recall.

[Dibs]

LOL you are right and I agree completely...

 

I was being an ass earlier with these posts

 

For various reasons I was unsure if I should respond to this post......but have decided that it is so extraordinary(for the board) and praiseworthy that I simply couldn't let it pass without making comment.

 

I honestly cannot recall a previous time where I(or anybody) have responded in a somewhat contradictory manner to a post which contains minimally a reasonably firm conviction on a subject........to which the poster has not only read and understood what was written, but has taken it on board and adjusted their own views on the subject.

 

Your response is something that I personally aspire to.....and if more people on the board(and the world in general) would act in a similar manner, there would be far less acrimony and perhaps a far wiser general population.

 

Kudos to you sir.

[DirtDart]

A pretty pathetic performance by our starting QB.

 

This is going to be a long year.

 

 

 

IMO

 

I will say that EJ didn't play great. But the ENTIRE Offense was horrible. dropped passes, stupid penalties, and ball security issues = losses all day long. So to put it squarely on the QB is an inaccurate assessment.

 

Solid post

very accurate, and much better articulated than my post. I sometimes wish I would read the entire thread before posting

[touchdownbuffalo]

You guys are way over reacting. Manual had one horrible play when he fumbled but the other mistakes were not his. If Chandler isn't tripping over his own feet and the RB fumbling the ball after the catch and the oline getting called for a penalty on half the good plays he would have looked much better. Give the guy a chance. I'm not saying he'll be great but I know I'd hate to be learning the QB position in the NFL in front of everyone being so negative. What do you expect? Everyone knew he was a bit of a project coming out of college. I see improvement, granted, it is painfully slow but the rest of the team needs to get it together and lend a hand.

I+1

[eball]

I haven't read through the thread, and I (fortunately?) didn't get to see much of the game, but it appeared EJ took some pretty good hits and didn't get injured -- I guess that's a positive?

[Kemp]

You guys are way over reacting. Manual had one horrible play when he fumbled but the other mistakes were not his. If Chandler isn't tripping over his own feet and the RB fumbling the ball after the catch and the oline getting called for a penalty on half the good plays he would have looked much better. Give the guy a chance. I'm not saying he'll be great but I know I'd hate to be learning the QB position in the NFL in front of everyone being so negative. What do you expect? Everyone knew he was a bit of a project coming out of college. I see improvement, granted, it is painfully slow but the rest of the team needs to get it together and lend a hand.

 

When the best thing you can say about your QB is a litany of excuses, there is a major problem.

 

 

[ALF]

Until the OL stops playing musical chairs and becomes solid, no QB will look good. Then a healthy Watkins with Mike W and Woods for the full game . 4 good RB's will make a difference and give the defense a rest.

[26CornerBlitz]

Is it me or is there an abundance of low information posters willing to express their opinions on all things Buffalo Bills these days?