Bills fans not even in the top 10? WTF

[BillsInMaine]

I live in the middle of Patriots nation. I don't know one fan who can list more then 10-12 players on their team, and one who can is very rare. They know nothing about their team or the game of football. They are the biggest ban wagon, arrogant and least knowledgeable fans I have ever met. No way they are top 5 fan base! Go Bills!

Edited August 23, 2014 by BillsInMaine

[Kirby Jackson]

I live in the middle of Patriots nation. I don't know one fan who can list more then 10-12 players on their team, and one who can is very rare. They know nothing about their team or the game of football. They are the biggest ban wagon, arrogant and least knowledgeable fans I have ever met. No way they are top 5 fan base! Go Bills!

Ha ha, I was in college in Boston during their 1st Super Bowl and it was the same thing. My uncle that lives there used to ask people to name the QBs between their 1st Super Bowl appearance and Brady. He swears that 85% couldn't do it. I think that it is like Grogan, Eason, Millen and Bledsoe or something like that.

[The Dean]

So your sole criterion for a good fan base is sellouts? Really?

 

First of all, Boston's metro population (let's leave the DMA out of this for the time being) is now over 4 million people (in 1990 it was just under that). That alone should be reason enough to sell out a football game even if the team sucked. But that's not all. Foxborough is less than 30 minutes from Providence (The Patriots* are New England's team, after all) and that adds 1.5 million more people to the mix. Counting the suburbs, let's say anyone within a 30 minute drive to the stadium, and we're talking about 7 million or so people in the area. So how impressive is it they manage to sell out a stadium that has less than a 70.000 person capacity?

 

Next you have a change of ownership in 1994. Typically an ownership change (or a new stadium) boosts interest in a team. Let's take a look at the Pats* record in the few years following the ownership change until they started their Super Bowl run:

 

1994 10-6

1995 6-10

1996 11-6 and went to the SB

1997 10-6

1998 9-7

1999 8-8

2000 5-11

 

Where exactly is the extended time the team sucked during that time frame? A winning year typically buys you interest for the next year. They didn't have two losing seasons in a row during that time frame.

 

So, in a stadium equidistant between two markets each far bigger than Buffalo, the Patriots got a new owner, won consistently, went to a SB and didn't have two consecutive losing seasons. Color me unimpressed with their sellout streak.

 

I should have mentioned the old Foxborough stadium (which is where they played during the time in question) had a capacity of just over 60,000. They sold that out.. What a joke.

Edited August 23, 2014 by The Dean

[BillyBaroo]

Let's see, Pat's fans pay highest prices in NFL I think. Have sold out everyday home game since 1994!

Bills have not sold out every home game in the last 10 years! NE has a waiting list of over 50k. Bills have no waiting list! Brady and BB did not come until 2000 but games sold out from 1994. What the NE fans needed was good ownership which the got 1994 when Kraft bought the team. This is why the Bills need a good owner to buy the team!

Anybody who doesn't think *Pats fans are rabid fans haven't been to our stadium when we play them - half of our stadium is full of *Pats fans eager for the chance to drive 7 hrs. to watch their team smoke us.

[Mr. WEO]

So your sole criterion for a good fan base is sellouts? Really?

 

First of all, Boston's metro population (let's leave the DMA out of this for the time being) is now over 4 million people (in 1990 it was just under that). That alone should be reason enough to sell out a football game even if the team sucked. But that's not all. Foxborough is less than 30 minutes from Providence (The Patriots* are New England's team, after all) and that adds 1.5 million more people to the mix. Counting the suburbs, let's say anyone within a 30 minute drive to the stadium, and we're talking about 7 million or so people in the area. So how impressive is it they manage to sell out a stadium that has less than a 70.000 person capacity?

 

Next you have a change of ownership in 1994. Typically an ownership change (or a new stadium) boosts interest in a team. Let's take a look at the Pats* record in the few years following the ownership change until they started their Super Bowl run:

 

1994 10-6

1995 6-10

1996 11-6 and went to the SB

1997 10-6

1998 9-7

1999 8-8

2000 5-11

 

Where exactly is the extended time the team sucked during that time frame? A winning year typically buys you interest for the next year. They didn't have two losing seasons in a row during that time frame.

 

So, in a stadium equidistant between two markets each far bigger than Buffalo, the Patriots got a new owner, won consistently, went to a SB and didn't have two consecutive losing seasons. Color me unimpressed with their sellout streak.

 

It is one criterion, yes--at least a real one. Your criteria are noticing people who wear different team jerseys and talking to patrons of sports bars. A joke?

 

So now it's 7 million people less than 30 miles from Gillette stadium?? There are only 7.5 million people in Mass and RI combined (Greater Providence is 1.5 million??). Providence is 25 miles from Gillette, boston is nearly 30 miles. Neither is "within 30 minutes" of the stadium, unless you travel by helicoptor.

 

The pats went from 10-6to 9-7 to 8-8 to 5-11...a steady dive over years (After a SB appearance), yet they still sold out the year after the 5-11.

 

 

I should have mentioned the old Foxborough stadium (which is where they played during the time in question) had a capacity of just over 60,000. They sold that out.. What a joke.

 

So Chicago's (61,000) sellouts are "a joke" also? And the Steelers (65,500)? And the Colts (63,000)? And those awesome Oakland fans (53,000)?

 

Great stuff! And are you on some sort of tape delay?

Edited August 23, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[The Dean]

It is one criterion, yes--at least a real one. Your criteria are noticing people who wear different team jerseys and talking to patrons of sports bars. A joke?

 

So now it's 7 million people less than 30 miles from Gillette stadium?? There are only 7.5 million people in Mass and RI combined (Greater Providence is 1.5 million??). Providence is 25 miles from Gillette, boston is nearly 30 miles. Neither is "within 30 minutes" of the stadium, unless you travel by helicoptor.

 

The pats went from 10-6to 9-7 to 8-8 to 5-11...a steady dive over years (After a SB appearance), yet they still sold out the year after the 5-11.

 

 

 

 

So Chicago's (61,000) sellouts are "a joke" also? And the Steelers (65,500)? And the Colts (63,000)? And those awesome Oakland fans (53,000)?

 

Great stuff! And are you on some sort of tape delay?

 

No tape delay. I actually have things to do.

 

Your argument rests on an area with a huge population selling out for a team that typically has a winning record. I suggest you try to work on a better one. And, if you prefer change the driving time to an hour. Makes my argument more compelling, actually,. You seem to be obsessed with the number of fans attending the game. When you do the math, the Bills would have to sell out a stadium of fewer than 20,000 to maintain that incredible Patriots* streak, and that's with the inclusion of Rochester--a generous move on my part as it is more than 1 hour away, and the very few in Canada within an hour (including the border) drive. Quibble a bit with the numbers, as that is the level to which your argument is now reduced.

 

And no, i'm not basing my argument on the wearing of colors or uniforms (I don't wear Bills gear when I go to games or a bar). My position relies on a number of observations. I actually go to sports bars and see what fan base show up, week after week. I admit I rely on anecdotal evidence as to who attends from visiting teams, as well as observe it myself. Year after year reliable sports publications rank "the best fans" and I've virtually never seen the Pats* fans listed, until this article from a publication that is tone-deaf when it comes to sports. I observe what fans continue to show up, regardless of their team's record. The Pats* have not, since your rather arbitrary (not really since it coincides with an ownership change) experienced a long streak of losing. They went to the playoffs in 4 of the 7 years in question. How is that an extended period of failure? But even so, with the population of the area, it shouldn't matter. They have no excuse for EVER having not sold out.

 

The saddest part of your position, however, is you continue to find a way to knob-gobble the Pats*--this time their pathetic fans, and find an excuse to discredit the Bills--again, this time the fans. The team may have been a failure for many years, their fans remain among the best in the NFL. I suggest you go to a Bills game and a Pats* game in San Diego, or Seattle, or San Francisco. Even now, with the Bills experiencing a 13-year playoff drought, and see how many fans are rooting for the visiting team. Check again when the Pats* have several years of futility (that may be a while, but if you would have done this in the 80's you would already know the results). There should be no comparison,. After all, Boston has many times the people of Buffalo. There should be 3-times as many Pats* fans at any given event, right? But again, I'm using logic and your position is not related to logic. You love the Pats* and will defend them even when your position is defenseless. I understand. I just can't understand why you continue to post on a Bills forum.

Edited August 23, 2014 by The Dean

[Mr. WEO]

No tape delay. I actually have things to do.

 

Your argument rests on an area with a huge population selling out for a team that typically has a winning record. I suggest you try to work on a better one. And, if you prefer change the driving time to an hour. Makes my argument more compelling, actually,. You seem to be obsessed with the number of fans attending the game. When you do the math, the Bills would have to sell out a stadium of fewer than 20,000 to maintain that incredible Patriots* streak, and that's with the inclusion of Rochester--a generous move on my part as it is more than 1 hour away, and the very few in Canada within an hour (including the border) drive. Quibble a bit with the numbers, as that is the level to which your argument is now reduced.

 

And no, i'm not basing my argument on the wearing of colors or uniforms (I don't wear Bills gear when I go to games or a bar). My position relies on a number of observations. I actually go to sports bars and see what fan base show up, week after week. I admit I rely on anecdotal evidence as to who attends from visiting teams, as well as observe it myself. Year after year reliable sports publications rank "the best fans" and I've virtually never seen the Pats* fans listed, until this article from a publication that is tone-deaf when it comes to sports. I observe what fans continue to show up, regardless of their team's record. The Pats* have not, since your rather arbitrary (not really since it coincides with an ownership change) experienced a long streak of losing. They went to the playoffs in 4 of the 7 years in question. How is that an extended period of failure? But even so, with the population of the area, it shouldn't matter. They have no excuse for EVER having not sold out.

 

The saddest part of your position, however, is you continue to find a way to knob-gobble the Pats*--this time their pathetic fans, and find an excuse to discredit the Bills--again, this time the fans. The team may have been a failure for many years, their fans remain among the best in the NFL. I suggest you go to a Bills game and a Pats* game in San Diego, or Seattle, or San Francisco. Even now, with the Bills experiencing a 13-year playoff drought, and see how many fans are rooting for the visiting team. Check again when the Pats* have several years of futility (that may be a while, but if you would have done this in the 80's you would already know the results). There should be no comparison,. After all, Boston has many times the people of Buffalo. There should be 3-times as many Pats* fans at any given event, right? But again, I'm using logic and your position is not related to logic. You love the Pats* and will defend them even when your position is defenseless. I understand. I just can't understand why you continue to post on a Bills forum.

 

The bolded has to be the funniest thing you have posted in a week. Your argument is a constantly morphing mess.

 

I was simply countering the posters who say that before Bellichick and Brady there were no pats fans. This is demonstrably false--your pretzel logic not withstanding (I love the one about the 20,000 fan equivalent sellout). I already stated that the streak coincided with new ownership (everyone already knows this).

 

You should copyright your "population weighted sellout" metric---or at least submit it to the NFL so we can maybe have fewer Bills blackouts in late fall!

 

You paint yourself into a corner and then simply declare "this isn't a corner, it's just a point where 2 walls meet at 90 degree angles". And, of course, when the walls start caving in on you, you simply attack my allegiance as a fan. Very compelling stuff.

 

I missed you man! Good to have you back.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[NoSaint]

 

somewhat. i've actually met plenty of patriot fans since i lived in boston for several years, and can 100% confirm they are absolutely insufferable. doesn't mean they don't pack the stadium, just that they're obnoxious.

 

That I won't argue against.

 

 

Part of me does wonder though - when we turn the corner and are in a dynasty phase, will people say "what a bunch of bandwagon fans they didn't even sell out their seasons until they started winning.

 

But I've admittedly been on a perspective kick lately

[Mr. WEO]

That I won't argue against.

 

 

Part of me does wonder though - when we turn the corner and are in a dynasty phase, will people say "what a bunch of bandwagon fans they didn't even sell out their seasons until they started winning.

 

But I've admittedly been on a perspective kick lately

 

Heck, a new owner (esp Pegula) will likely result in sellouts, maybe even a waiting list, just like it did in NE. But no one here would consider it bandwagoning....

[The Dean]

The bolded has to be the funniest thing you have posted in a week. Your argument is a constantly morphing mess.

 

I was simply countering the posters who say that before Bellichick and Brady there were no pats fans. This is demonstrably false--your pretzel logic not withstanding (I love the one about the 20,000 fan equivalent sellout). I already stated that the streak coincided with new ownership (everyone already knows this).

 

You should copyright your "population weighted sellout" metric---or at least submit it to the NFL so we can maybe have fewer Bills blackouts in late fall!

 

You paint yourself into a corner and then simply declare "this isn't a corner, it's just a point where 2 walls meet at 90 degree angles". And, of course, when the walls start caving in on you, you simply attack my allegiance as a fan. Very compelling stuff.

 

I missed you man! Good to have you back.

 

What in hell are you talking about now? The Pats* sell out because they win and they are in a huge market. Period. That doesn't make them a great fanbase. If you are arguing something else, then OK. But this thread is about the best fans in the league. The Pats* selling out a relative small stadium (until 2004) means little in this thread.

 

And, BTW my position never morphed. I was just explaining to you why them selling out is so remarkably unimpressive. I didn't expect you to agree--or understand, frankly.

Edited August 23, 2014 by The Dean

[Mr. WEO]

What in hell are you talking about now? The Pats* sell out because they win and they are in a huge market. Period. That doesn't make them a great fanbase. If you are arguing something else, then OK. But this thread is about the best fans in the league. The Pats* selling out a relative small stadium (until 2004) means little in this thread.

 

And, BTW my position never morphed. I was just explaining to you why them selling out is so remarkably unimpressive. I didn't expect you to agree--or understand, frankly.

 

You are sometimes difficult to understand. I admit that.....

[The Dean]

You are sometimes difficult to understand. I admit that.....

 

Sure, whatever. But a Bills fan constantly dogging the Bills and defending/promoting the Pats* on a Bills forum is easy to understand?