NoSaint Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 I would like this trade. I just dont see it happening. Do other teams really think 7-11 has any value. He is very raw with only playing football for 2-3 years. Not that Ponder is highly coveted but he has shown he is capable of playing QB in this league, even if it was average play at best. Hogan has tons of potential but at this point thats all it is,,,potential. If ponder is a cut, there's not much concern about returning value. Haven't followed close enough to know the vikes qb situation in depth today but it sounds feasible.
Captain Caveman Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 One reason against bringing in a veteran QB at this stage (any veteran) is they have missed virtually all of camp. I recall this team trying to bring in experienced QBs at the last minute and then never getting them up to speed enough to play. They were inactive week after week, if not cut after a few weeks. Good point. Tarvaris Jackson didn't work out. I think we had Thad Lewis for about 6 weeks before he started, and that was really by necessity.
I'm Spartacus Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 The more I "ponder" this scenario, the better it sounds. Tuel sux. I would also inquire about Web from Carolina. He looked pretty good this pre-season. I don't know what is going on in the league regarding veteran QB's (being cut, released, trade), but we sure need one.
VirginiaMike Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Okay? I'm with ya. But Hogan and who/what for Ponder? No way Minnesota would swap player for player, IMO. Agreed. I do not see the Vikings trading a player (Ponder) that has started multiple games in the NFL for a player (Hogan) who never has started a game and is not considered a number 1 or a number 2 receiver, by anyone.
Billy in 4C Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 The problem is Ponder still has a 1st round contract. Good analysis overall though.
NoSaint Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Agreed. I do not see the Vikings trading a player (Ponder) that has started multiple games in the NFL for a player (Hogan) who never has started a game and is not considered a number 1 or a number 2 receiver, by anyone. His point is he thinks they are going to cut him and get nothing in return otherwise. Do you think the vikes #3 qb warrants an established starting WR?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 His point is he thinks they are going to cut him and get nothing in return otherwise. Do you think the vikes #3 qb warrants an established starting WR? Yes. And his name is TJ Graham.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 21, 2014 Author Posted August 21, 2014 Good point. Tarvaris Jackson didn't work out. I think we had Thad Lewis for about 6 weeks before he started, and that was really by necessity. The answer to that is the guy you keep, Thad or Tuel, has been here. And in the few weeks it takes before the new backup is ready to play, TL or JT is the game day #2. That scenario was publicly stated by Whaley during the off season. He said he and Marrone discussed it and they decided they would rather work with two guys, Lewis and Tuel, who have spent a year in the offense instead of trying to teach a new guy the thing from scratch. It's a school of thought, but it backfired, and they both must know right now that it hasn't worked. Both Lewis and Tuel look like crap. Keep one (I'm pretty sure they would keep Tuel unfortunately) and get a vet backup who is no real threat to EJ as a starter. Whaley also intimated, but didn't come right out and say it, that they didn't want any competition for EJ for the starting job. The problem is Ponder still has a 1st round contract. Good analysis overall though. He makes 1.7m this year. Peanuts for a backup. Agreed. I do not see the Vikings trading a player (Ponder) that has started multiple games in the NFL for a player (Hogan) who never has started a game and is not considered a number 1 or a number 2 receiver, by anyone. They need a #3 or #4 WR. Ponder is their clear #3 QB and is not going to play unless they have two injuries.
CardinalScotts Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Okay? I'm with ya. But Hogan and who/what for Ponder? No way Minnesota would swap player for player, IMO. well they wouldnt want Hogan but you'll take Ponder off our hands please do.
dave mcbride Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 I have the opinion that the Bills would have drafted Ponder but were stunned to see him taken by the Vikings that high. Gailey recruited when at Georgia Tech and stories I read had the Bills with some interest in him. Yep. And the team was hardly thrilled when team employee (at the time) Andre Reed announced on Twitter before the draft that the Bills were targeting Ponder. Shortly after the draft, Andre was no longer employed by the Bills (IIRC).
Badasss Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 yes, he was there first. Then he got hurt and EJ took over.i think there was some flip flipping due to injury. EJ also started over Winston, who was redshirted for EJ's sr yr. Just what we need, another QB that can't play in cold weather.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 21, 2014 Author Posted August 21, 2014 Yep. And the team was hardly thrilled when team employee (at the time) Andre Reed announced on Twitter before the draft that the Bills were targeting Ponder. Shortly after the draft, Andre was no longer employed by the Bills (IIRC). Good memory. Nix and Gailey and some of the scouts from that time are gone, so it's hard to know if anyone still with the Bills and still with any clout has solid interest in Ponder to make that item of any note. Plus, that was before the draft, and many who thought Ponder had a lot of talent and would or could be a franchise QB have very likely soured on that idea. But they may still think he could be a good backup.
Garranimal Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Oh God, please let the regular season start. .....and maybe we could ask Marrone to wear a Jimbo Fisher mask, we can have Chief Osceola ride around on a buffalo, the crowd can do the that mindless indian chant, schedule games against Virginia Tech, NC State and Duke....and if the sewers back up again, EJ might actually believe he is back at Doak Campbell Stadium. Edited August 21, 2014 by Garranimal
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Hear me out. Full disclosure, I hate trade idea threads and don't know why I started one. I don't even think Christian Ponder is any good, although a decent veteran backup and a lot better than what we have. Hogan is causing more problems than he is solving. The Bills to me are extremely dangerous with the four headed monster of Sammy, Mike, Robert and Marquise. Keeping Woods off the field in lieu of Hogan is a big mistake and something I doubt they will be doing much once the season starts. You're going to want only 5 active and Easley should be one of those five. Keep TJ on the team in case Goodwin gets hurt. Ponder is a veteran who you can coach to just be a game manager. He's played enough. He stinks if you want to be your savior or to throw for 300 yards a game but we don't need him for that. He knows EJ already and can probably help him. The Vikings are having problems with Jerome Simpson and could use a decent WR with some clear upside. There is enough tape on Hogan now to see he can run routes and catch the ball and just the fact he is taking so much time from Robert Woods should let them know the Bills coaches are serious about him. I'm sorry, but Jeff Tuel stinks and Thad seems to have regressed. Whaley is not afraid to pull the trigger. Ponder is not great or even very good as a starter so he is no threat to EJ, but a far better temporary answer than we have now if EJ goes down for a half or a game or even 2-3. There are not a lot of good options around the league. IMO we need a veteran game manager backup without a rag arm. I'd hang on to hogan. With history as our guide we can expect one or more of the watkins, woods, Williams Goodwin crew to miss games. With woods starting in the slot, he can move outside in a pinch and hogan can play slot if anyone else goes down. I'm not sure the same is true of Graham, no one seems sold on Easley as any sort of WR.... And the rest of the WR crowd seems to be a long shot to make the roster. Hogan seems like a player to keep just to find out if he can play or not. I for one would like to see if his legendary practice play translates to game day performance. All of that said, I don't see anyone trading anything for Chris hogan, because he's not even proven on gameday that he belongs on an nfl roster yet. I'd hate for him to find out he's a player, just a late bloomer, in a different colored jersey. Edited August 21, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
Alphadawg7 Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) 1. Ponder isn't very good. 2. That being said, I think he could be at least equal, if not better than Thad or Tuel. 3. But only if he had time to learn the playbook. So here in lies the issue...Ponder isn't very good to begin with, and while I think he's a potential upgrade to our backups, factoring in knowing and not knowing the offense changes the viability of him actually being better on the field this year. Given Thad and Tuel have all this time in this offense, Ponders slight upgrade is pretty much negated by his lack of understanding of this offense. In fact, I would say there is strong potential he could be worse than Thad in a game situation this year because of it. I totally agree about Hogan...while I do not think he carries a lot of trade value, Ponder is a reasonable option given he's the 3rd QB on their roster and they could use a WR. However, I think we would be best served to trade Hogan for a Linebacker given our lack of depth with injuries. And a LB could make a stronger impact than a below average QB who came in this late and doesn't know the offense. I actually have been wondering if they were giving Hogan playing time over Woods to both motivate Woods (who is undeniably more talented) and to also showcase him to maybe trade Hogan given we can't play them all. Trade Hogan for a LB His point is he thinks they are going to cut him and get nothing in return otherwise. Do you think the vikes #3 qb warrants an established starting WR? Um, how is Hogan an established starting WR? He's never started a game in his life and has the production of a 5th or 6th sting WR. I don't understand how Hogan keeps getting so over valued around here. Every year he is a guy talked about in camp...every year he does nothing in the regular season, even when we were decimated at WR last year with injuries. I am not saying he couldn't contribute, I am just saying he never has at any point in his career for any team. Edited August 21, 2014 by Alphadawg7
nichebiche Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 I've got a better idea - what about Ponder for Mario Williams?
NoSaint Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 Um, how is Hogan an established starting WR? He's never started a game in his life and has the production of a 5th or 6th sting WR. I don't understand how Hogan keeps getting so over valued around here. Every year he is a guy talked about in camp...every year he does nothing in the regular season, even when we were decimated at WR last year with injuries. I am not saying he couldn't contribute, I am just saying he never has at any point in his career for any team. right. hence hed be a good trade option for a number 3 qb that might be cut, as opposed to the other poster that i was replying to that said the vikes wouldnt trade ponder for short of a known #1 or #2 wr. hogan is not that valuable, nor is ponder.
Rocky Landing Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 What does Hogan Have to do to et some love on this board? Has he not exceeded expectations in TC? Has he not improved from last season? Really, this whole thread smacks of desperation. If the FO jumped on this right now, we'd be lucky to get Ponder into the last preseason game. And, how much would that be worth? If we pick up Ponder, it should be in free agency. We should not be trading anything of value for a back-up QB at this time. At this point in the preseason, it would be more of a distraction than a solution.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 right. hence hed be a good trade option for a number 3 qb that might be cut, as opposed to the other poster that i was replying to that said the vikes wouldnt trade ponder for short of a known #1 or #2 wr. hogan is not that valuable, nor is ponder. Ah, I misunderstood...I thought you were suggesting Hogan was a starting WR
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