quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Long successful coaching careers don't always have auspicious beginnings. In his one year as a NFL OC, BIll Walsh's Chargers scored below the league average. In his first two years as a HC with the 49ers, he finished 2-14. BB went 36-44 as HC of the Browns before finding success with the Pats. Marv Levy went 4-12 his first year as a NFL HC, 2-5 his first partial season with the Bills. Marrone is a young HC. Hackett is a young OC. Both need to grow and improve and they probably will. Levy had a pretty experienced OC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Ringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The offense seems to be very predicatable pre-snap. There is very little deception, either with the offensive personnel on the field, or the situation. Rarely is anyone in motion. Hackett's offense comes across as a very basic vanilla offense, similar to our defense two years ago. Line em up, and hopefully we can out execute the other team. This issue is magnified in the red-zone, which is why we struggle. I think EJ and the offense could definitely benefit from some creative and unconventional play calls and formations from time to time. Hopefully the regular season will bring this, or we might be in for another frustrating year on offense. Deception isn't what wins, it's execution. It seems foolish to think you can fool the defense. You have 2 options, run or pass. If you are better then the other team, you will execute your plays. Look how often we knew teams were going to run on us last year and we couldn't stop them. No deception needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think Fear the Losing has it pretty much right. It's go-time,for EJ and Hackett and no excuses. The back-up QB situation is vexing me and just plain stupid on the FO's part. I think the backup QB situation will be a lot different in a couple of weeks. Thad will probably be cut. A new & more experienced QB will be picked up, think Ponder, who will be #3 for about the first 6 games & then perhaps moved up to #2. Then you will no longer be vexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Long successful coaching careers don't always have auspicious beginnings. In his one year as a NFL OC, BIll Walsh's Chargers scored below the league average. In his first two years as a HC with the 49ers, he finished 2-14. BB went 36-44 as HC of the Browns before finding success with the Pats. Marv Levy went 4-12 his first year as a NFL HC, 2-5 his first partial season with the Bills. Marrone is a young HC. Hackett is a young OC. Both need to grow and improve and they probably will. NFL is a win now league. I'm honestly surprised that Marrone/Hackett wasn't fired after last season, simply because that seems to be the way it is these days. Either win right away, or you're out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes win the preseason games, score all kinds of points put it all on film....Can we save the Hackett in over his head talk until the real games begin ? The guy last year had to play 3 different qb's 2 of which were rookies and work around Colin Brown/Doug Legursky getting blown up every play. I have a feeling Hackett will have quite a few guys on this board eating their words- of course they will never admit they were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I think the backup QB situation will be a lot different in a couple of weeks. Thad will probably be cut. A new & more experienced QB will be picked up, think Ponder, who will be #3 for about the first 6 games & then perhaps moved up to #2. Then you will no longer be vexed. I'll take that scenario. ....I have a feeling Hackett will have quite a few guys on this board eating their words- of course they will never admit they were wrong. Gimme some Frank's hot sauce and I will gladly eat any words I have written or muttered that cast a doubt on young Hackett's abilities! (So help me if he plays everyone at the LOS and runs Fred inside to get a yard, the deal is off!) I'd HOPE I am wrong! Won't be the first time I swallowed my utterances. NFL is a win now league. I'm honestly surprised that Marrone/Hackett wasn't fired after last season, simply because that seems to be the way it is these days. Either win right away, or you're out. That's just crackerdogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 After watching a few preseason games I now remember what our real achilles heal was last year and it wasn't Manuel. I know it is just preseason however there are two troubling aspects of his play calling he has not corrected. 1. Not letting EJ throw the deep ball- One of the reasons the Bills said they drafted him is his arm strength. Yet Hackett does not let EJ throw the deep ball in game settings. How will he ever utilize one of his strengths if he cant practice in GAME SETTINGS! 2. On third and fourth and short running plays out of the shotgun- Hackett is tipping his hand that he is going to throw the ball. This makes it much much easier on the defense. On the off chance that you are going to run the ball you are not allowing the RB to gain the momentum he needs to plow through the line which is why we are always getting stuffed when he does run in these situations. My question is where is Marrone the former offensive "guru" of the Saints in all of this. I agree...Hackett for me is a much bigger question mark than EJ. Obviously EJ has to execute, but the game plan is often head scratching. He poorly uses the talent on this team IMO, and I hoped last year would have taught him something, but so far in preseason I am not seeing a lot out of Hackett that makes me confident he can do this job at this level. I know its preseason, and I hope he's just holding back, but I feel like we make that excuse for our offense every year for a decade now. EJ has proven he can move the chains, but we need to be able to put points on the board and I hope Hackett comes up with a way to be make this team more efficient at that end of the field. Best thing he can do is devise ways to get our playmakers the ball in space like CJ, Marquise and of course Sammy. That will open up the rest of the field for guys like Woods, Williams, and especially Chandler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 NFL is a win now league. I'm honestly surprised that Marrone/Hackett wasn't fired after last season, simply because that seems to be the way it is these days. Either win right away, or you're out. I think Russ Brandon wanted to keep everything intact because he believes in Marrone. He had the GM give this coaching staff everything they needed to win games. Its now up to the coaches to field a winning team. With new ownership being announced in the next few weeks, and they will take control by October. I'll wager that should the team fall on its face in the first eight games, then Marrone / Hackett will be goners. Schwartz will probably keep his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Deception isn't what wins, it's execution. It seems foolish to think you can fool the defense. You have 2 options, run or pass. If you are better then the other team, you will execute your plays. Look how often we knew teams were going to run on us last year and we couldn't stop them. No deception needed. yeah but it increases your odds of success when the defense guesses wrong. Look what Pettine did to other offenses last year with his play calling on defense. The blitzes and stunts were carefully chosen and very effective because they were disguised or called at the perfect time. execution come first for sure, but being unsure of run or pass makes a huge difference. That's why we always talk about the 2nd down and 4 yards to go play as being the OC's dream. Nobody on the defense can cheat because they have no clue what play we're going to call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Can't we all just get along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Instead of the deep ball in preseason games, lets talk about Hackett in-general. Much of it has been pointed out. I think FeartheLosing on pg. 1 hit it pretty well. About Hackett last year, though, I'd like to add that it was extremely frustrating to me to see the lack of screen passes, slip screens, bubble screens, tight end screens....whatever! In Fred & CJ we've got great weapons that were, to say the least, under-utilized. Heck (no pun intended there ) even utilizing screens to a tight end would work, especially at a time in the game when it would be totally unexpected. The screen game in my opinion, was only one aspect of the "Hack-it problem." Other aspects of the problem were touched on well, previously. That's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My question is where is Marrone the former offensive "guru" of the Saints in all of this. There's only one, and there's only ever been one offensive guru of the Saints...And everyone knows it was not Doug Marrone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) They probably haven't thrown deep during the preseason because the line play has been poor and it exposes Manuel to injury. I don't think using the shotgun tips off anything, like you said, they do run off of it so it they think its a pass then it's a run.....I think getting the ball 3 yards behind the line is plenty of room to get momentum, I've heard Marrone called an offensive guru a few times. What is this based on? That he had Drew Brees as his QB? Hardly qualifies as a guru. My opinion is the offense will be greatly improved this year. If the line play is better that obviously will help. Also, we have better WR to help. Let's wait for the regular season to start before we criticize. Kind of like how Bellicheat became a genius after Brady turned into a future hall of famer over night even though he was awful in his previous NFL positions? I'm not comparing Marrone to him but he fell into **** and came out smelling like a rose. Edited August 21, 2014 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Kind of like how Bellicheat became a genius after Brady turned into a future hall of famer over night even though he was awful in his previous NFL positions? I'm not comparing Marrone to him but he fell into **** and came out smelling like a rose. Bill Bellecheck* owns a superbowl 25 ring he beat the Buffalo Bills he earned it too. it pissed me off Do not like the man but to say he was awful is silly man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) After watching a few preseason games.... This is your answer. Edited August 21, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bill Bellecheck* owns a superbowl 25 ring he beat the Buffalo Bills he earned it too. it pissed me off Do not like the man but to say he was awful is silly man. That was the only thing he had as a DC under Parcells. He was 36-44 in Cleveland as HC. Granted not awful but not .500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) go look at the current O coordinators for other good offenses: http://en.wikipedia....thaniel_Hackett they list them below Hackett's bio. look at their experience. spoiler alert: they weren't assistant LB coaches at UC Davis 10 years ago. Irrelevant---if you're trying to say 'for some perspective look at the league's other OC's.' Because some of the best head coaches call the plays--not the OCs: McCarthy calls the plays in Green Bay. Jim Harbaugh the QB whisperer calls them in San Fran. Sean Peyton in New Orleans. Kelly in Phily. McCoy in San Diego. Peyton Manning in Denver. Andy Reid in KC. By the end of this season you'll add Jay Gruden to this list too---if the Redskins oline can give RGIII time they'll be nasty. Edited August 22, 2014 by Big Blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) . Edited August 23, 2014 by quinnearlysghost88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I dunno. I watched a video interview of hackett. I am not impressed. He had no answers on why they won't throw deep even in practice. I thought he was all bluster, i don't think he has a clue. I just watched the Hackett interview and it was both sickening and frightening. He actually verbally stated "we just want to take what the defense gives us". That's not out of context to make him look bad because as you watch he was gleefully extolling the virtues of checking down and not forcing the issue in fear of EJ throwing interceptions. Yet they wonder why Manuel thinks he has to be perfect all the time???? I'm officially worried that we are screwed with Hackett this season. If this is truly Hackett's philosophy that he's going to take for the 2014 season then Marrone should fire him right now because Manuel is toast which in turn means that Marrone will be toast. Bill Parcells once told Phil Simms that if you aren't throwing interceptions then you're a worthless QB because you're not ballsy enough to become a great QB. You're basically being a kitty cat. What we have is an OC who is gleeful with pride when his QB checks down and takes what the defense is giving him. Because we have Jackson and Dixon and Spiller who can run after the catch! How many times did that happen last year 5 times? You can not be a successful QB (or a successful team for that matter) in this league if you refuse to challenge a defense with the deep ball on a consistent basis. Here's the interview,. If you want to feel sick start watching at the 2:25 mark... http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Nathaniel_Hackett_on_OLine_and_the_Red_Zone/32e57e61-a6bd-442d-b9f2-924b9fd287ce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 MY Man Nate . I love the little f'r. Go Bills ! beat those Buccaneers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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