Stephon Gilmore

[GunnerBill]

I didn't blame him for the Benjamin catch last week... actually thought Benjamin got lucky by tripping or else he wasn't catching that ball he kind of tripped into the perfect spot. The one this week.... hmmmm... not sure he really knew where his man was at any point of that play.

 

Big year for him.

[Jerry Jabber]

Why would you do something so stupid?

His whole career is important and as much as you want to dismiss the amazing play that Kelvin Benjamin made, he still made an insane grab.

 

Gilmore is not a shutdown corner but he is better than average starting CB in the NFL and will continue to be no matter how much you want to irrationally freak out.

 

"Why would you do something so stupid?" What the hell is that supposed to mean? So, you're obviously one of those that feels just because it's preseason, it's no big deal. So in essence, you're saying that Gilmore is not giving 100% in preseason (meaning he's loafing it, half-azzing it, etc…)

 

If you don't think how a person's performance in preseason is important, then why don't you ask Turk Schonert and Langston Walker about that?

 

What concerns me about Gilmore, as well as McKelvin and Glenn is that these guys are coming off of offseason surgeries (or in Glenn's case, an illness). So far, Gilmore has looked rusty (like he did last year when he came back from his wrist injury). I'm hoping these preseason games will help knock the rust off of Gilmore's game (if that is truly the case here). If Gilmore and McKelvin don't get the rust off, then I feel they could be targeted often come the regular season, as the Bills run D looks much improved, and teams will be throwing it a lot more. If opposing teams see Gilmore and McKelvin struggle in the preseason, you can guarantee that QB's will be throwing their way early and often throughout the game.

 

I remember when McGee first came back from a knee injury during the season and he got beaten badly all game by Ted Ginn Jr when he was on the Dolphins (I think Ginn had over 180 yards that game). Another example is when Jason Peters sat out all offsesaon, then once he was put back into the starting lineup, he wasn't in "game shape" and his play on the field suffered for a few weeks. I hope to see McKelvin and Glenn on the field during the next two preseason games, and hopefully that will be enough to get the rust off and get these guys "game ready," otherwise those positions will be exploited come week 1 vs the Bears.

[Agent 91]

First, the TD to Benjamin was exceptional coverage last week. The kid made a diving TD catch at his toes...The opposing team also has professional NFL players that are paid a lot of money to make plays too, and occasionally they will make an exceptional play despite exceptional defense against the play.

 

Secondly, I don't think everyone in this thread realizes the 76 yard TD by Brown was against Graham and A. Williams (Williams picked Graham).

 

Third, the Wheaton TD was a great route and a perfect throw in man to man situation. Thats an incredibly difficult play to defend regardless if you are Revis or some scrub. And all the top DB's have given that TD up before, including Revis. So to jump to some crazy conclusion that all of a sudden Gilmore can't hang is incredibly premature. He's is supposed to cheat inside because the sideline acts as a 12th defender. Wheaton cut back to the corner and Big Ben made an exceptional throw and put the ball exactly on the money. Not making an excuse for him, but its also not exactly armageddon either.

 

Gilmore is not one of my concerns about this team...He is still one of the better starting DB's in this league with the potential to be one of the best.

 

Graham and Duke Williams

 

 

Dibs, NOT to single you out, but too many posters who know a lot about football, let alone this team, are apologetic. "Untrained eye?" You and many of us follow this team more than sportswriters. Your opinion has merit.

 

First round picks are given a ton of room by fans. Spiller is likened to Sanders. Gilmore is a young Mel Blount. EJ is on his way to greatness. Fans are smart to think this because what can we do to control how the Bills allocate resources? Obviously nothing. But that doesn't make the above statements true.

 

And btw, the "pros" who have been running the team have been SO unthinkably bad that a team would almost have to try to not make the playoffs for 14 years.

 

So please, keep posting opinions. I will do the same.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Awesome response. I like people who build people up. Thats why I cant wait until you put your weekly post game thoughts so we can have a good old fashion football discussion.

 

 

I will concede that Gilmore looked bad in a preseason game last night. But if you are going to continue to ride out your anti-Gilmore agenda, you have to also maintain that you have "bad vibes" about Sammy Watkins.

 

Why? Im intrigued by this notion. Sammy hasn't shown much but curious of the parallels you are drawing.

 

So far, the run defense has vastly improved, so teams are throwing it a lot more on the Bills. IMO, Gilmore does not look like his old self from last year as this could be from his offseason surgery.

 

What was a little concerning was seeing Rapistburger throw for two TD's against our defense last night. The D-line was unable to generate a sack and Rapistburger was able to carve up our secondary. I'm hoping Schwartz was just playing a vanilla scheme last night and will be more creative during the regular season. Yes, I know, it's "only preseason," but seeing these things does not exactly inspire confidence either.

 

Lol you mean the way everyone was expecting Wannstedt to ramp it up for the real dance. He only liked one flavor milk shake... Vanilla. I hope Schwartz like some salt and pepper on his steak. I love his scheme in the front 7 but the back 4 im not sure yet. It seems like we might need to wait until McKelvin comes back so we can see the starting 4

 

 

 

Let's keep track...

 

Misses Pettine

Rules changes hurt his game

It's preseason

Vanilla scheme

Slow offseason recovery

No pass rush

INSANE route running and catches are indefensible

Confused

Lingering issues from last seasons injury

Lost confidence

 

Keep 'em coming!

 

Nuff said. Awesome reaction.

[1B4IDie]

 

"Why would you do something so stupid?" What the hell is that supposed to mean? So, you're obviously one of those that feels just because it's preseason, it's no big deal. So in essence, you're saying that Gilmore is not giving 100% in preseason (meaning he's loafing it, half-azzing it, etc)

 

If you don't think how a person's performance in preseason is important, then why don't you ask Turk Schonert and Langston Walker about that?

 

What concerns me about Gilmore, as well as McKelvin and Glenn is that these guys are coming off of offseason surgeries (or in Glenn's case, an illness). So far, Gilmore has looked rusty (like he did last year when he came back from his wrist injury). I'm hoping these preseason games will help knock the rust off of Gilmore's game (if that is truly the case here). If Gilmore and McKelvin don't get the rust off, then I feel they could be targeted often come the regular season, as the Bills run D looks much improved, and teams will be throwing it a lot more. If opposing teams see Gilmore and McKelvin struggle in the preseason, you can guarantee that QB's will be throwing their way early and often throughout the game.

 

I remember when McGee first came back from a knee injury during the season and he got beaten badly all game by Ted Ginn Jr when he was on the Dolphins (I think Ginn had over 180 yards that game). Another example is when Jason Peters sat out all offsesaon, then once he was put back into the starting lineup, he wasn't in "game shape" and his play on the field suffered for a few weeks. I hope to see McKelvin and Glenn on the field during the next two preseason games, and hopefully that will be enough to get the rust off and get these guys "game ready," otherwise those positions will be exploited come week 1 vs the Bears.

I have to admit, you make a hell of a strawman argument and you're clairvoyant too.

 

The point is the entire career including preseason performance is important, not just this pre-season. This has nothing to do with your amazing leap in logic to get to a point where you would suggest Gilmore is loafing. Nice work on that strawman. It was truly special. Not to mention that the majority of O-Co's are not going to watch a Receiver trip over themselves, fall to the ground, get up for a second, dive, then one hand the ball inches above the ground and say "I can really exploit the circus catch against Gilmore, I'm going to have my WRs practice that this week."

 

If Benjamin doesn't trip he likely doesn't catch that ball.

 

But you're the clairvoyant so you already know what the Bears are going to do week 1. What is the score going to be? I'd like to place some bets.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[Bill from NYC]

Ahh so much to address here. First and foremost, I wanted to say that every year everyone pays way too much attention to the preseason and then by week 2, I always say to myself, man how long ago does the preseason seem and more importantly, how irrelevant was it after all. And yet here we are in the middle of the preseason judging Stephon Gilmore because he got beat on one play. I think the jury is still out on Gilmore personally but I really hope your relentless crusade against him ends at some point here. As far as EJ, I certainly think it's possible he sucks. In fact, I think it's likely. I've never said anything indicating to the contrary. As far as Watkins, for the record Bill, you started a thread BEFORE the draft saying, "hey does anyone have any players that they just have bad vibes about? I had em about Spiller, Gilmore and my guy this year is Sammy Watkins." So that was before the Bills drafted him and before we knew what the Bills gave up to get him. I personally have good vibes about Watkins FWIW. As far as the trade, I mean what can I really say other than "time will tell?" If he's a Julio Jones then yeah of course it was worth it. If somehow he sucks- which, barring injury, looks very unlikely- then it was obviously not worth it. But yeah, I love the roll of the dice and I think this franchise needed to make a bold move like that. So yeah, to answer your question, I like it. Great vibes.

 

This board is underrated imo. Many, many solid posters as well as most mocks had Sammy going before us. The possibility of trading up was raised. It is very unlikely that he would have fallen to us. Perhaps we both agree on this. That said, would he have been my choice? No, sorry.

But, he does appear to be very good. The tapes from camp are pretty sick. But I respectfully remind you that a player being "good" doesn't always translate to building a winning team. Is Spiller good? Sure. Is Gilmore good? Probably so. Was Whitner good? I suppose. But what "good" did they do us in terms of wins?

 

I am glad that you brought up Julio Jones. As a Tide Fan, I am quite familiar with him. The thing is that he has Ryan throwing him the ball. And, it sucked for the Falcons when he got hurt, no?

 

If the Bills stood still and drafted on of the Tackles, you do realize that they:

1) Would have a first round pick (perhaps early) in 2015.

2) Would NOT have drafted Kuandjio in round 2.

Kujo by the way is another player that I spoke of before the draft, remember? Now there is a lot riding on this kid and we really need him to develop.

 

In any event, we both need to hope that EJ can get Sammy the ball because if he can, it looks as if he can win us games. If not, we have long term, serious problems.

 

The thing is, opinions are a good thing, no? Maybe I'm just more risk averse than you in this situation, or in general about the Bills. I'm not seeing what is bad about this. Fill me in if you get the chance.

 

Be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 19, 2014 by Bill from NYC

[Bufcomments]

In back to back preseason games, Gilmore has burnt for TDs. Should we be concerned that this trend will continue into the season?

Yes

 

And on Top of that the rules this year on not in Gilmores favor.

[CountDorkula]

Yes

 

And on Top of that the rules this year on not in Gilmores favor.

 

Which CB do they favor?

Answer: None.

 

Ill repost this: Last year after Gilmore got back on the field after wearing a club he finished the season by allowing a 42 opposing QB rating in five games after the bye.

Edited August 19, 2014 by CountDorkula

[1B4IDie]

 

Which CB do they favor?

Answer: None.

 

Ill repost this: Last year after Gilmore got back on the field after wearing a club he finished the season by allowing a 42 opposing QB rating in five games after the bye.

Yes but according to Jerry Jabber you cannot consider that. You can only judge Gilmore on his performance in the few snaps he was in the game in the 2014 pre season.

 

Plus this insane catch by Benjamin was not insane but was in fact all Gilmore's fault.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000376232/article/panthers-kelvin-benjamin-praised-after-acrobatic-td

 

I am convinced based on amazing reasoning and analysis. Cut Gilmore.

[metzelaars_lives]

This board is underrated imo. Many, many solid posters as well as most mocks had Sammy going before us. The possibility of trading up was raised. It is very unlikely that he would have fallen to us. Perhaps we both agree on this. That said, would he have been my choice? No, sorry.

But, he does appear to be very good. The tapes from camp are pretty sick. But I respectfully remind you that a player being "good" doesn't always translate to building a winning team. Is Spiller good? Sure. Is Gilmore good? Probably so. Was Whitner good? I suppose. But what "good" did they do us in terms of wins?

 

I am glad that you brought up Julio Jones. As a Tide Fan, I am quite familiar with him. The thing is that he has Ryan throwing him the ball. And, it sucked for the Falcons when he got hurt, no?

 

If the Bills stood still and drafted on of the Tackles, you do realize that they:

1) Would have a first round pick (perhaps early) in 2015.

2) Would NOT have drafted Kuandjio in round 2.

Kujo by the way is another player that I spoke of before the draft, remember? Now there is a lot riding on this kid and we really need him to develop.

 

In any event, we both need to hope that EJ can get Sammy the ball because if he can, it looks as if he can win us games. If not, we have long term, serious problems.

 

The thing is, opinions are a good thing, no? Maybe I'm just more risk averse than you in this situation, or in general about the Bills. I'm not seeing what is bad about this. Fill me in if you get the chance.

 

Be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean your argument that sure, Sammy Watkins may be incredibly talented but if EJ can't get him the ball then what good does he do us, is true but what did you want them to do? I mean, in today's NFL (I know, kind of cliché), is there a position that does make a team better if the QB can't play? You mentioned standing pat and taking a tackle at 9. OK let's say we have the best OL in football. What does that translate to? EJ having one extra half second to make a decision and get rid of the ball? It's still on him. Who is the consensus best RB and WR in football and what have their respective teams done lately? Exactly. They were both top ten picks too. You think their GM's still wouldn't have taken them? Come on Bill. You mentioned Kujo- a) it's still early, b) he was by every indication a great value in the second round and, much like Cordy Glenn, a consensus pick at the time (as opposed to recent "cute" picks like Whitner, Troup, Graham, et al.) and c) if you're going by early payoffs, if the Bills took Seantrel Henderson at 9, wouldn't everyone on this board be saying that they made a great pick and found themselves a guy who is going to start for them for ten years? If Kujo ends up being a bust, that one is not on the Bills- much like Mike Williams. It was the right pick at the time, period. I realize I'm going on tangents here but yes Bill, I will concede that I was a little surprised when they gave up next year's 1 for Sammy Watkins but the more I thought about it, this franchise needed to make a bold move. They had the guy rated so high that they made a splash to get him and you know what? Yeah I like it. Even if he ends up being a bust- which, again, aint happenin- I am officially on record as saying it was the right move. At the end of the day, Doug Whaley has put together a top 5-10 football team in the NFL in terms of talent other than the QB position. You put Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning on this football team and they're 13-3. It's all on EJ now. If it doesn't work you go get Kirk Cousins pronto. And good luck today Jim Kelly!

 

Graham and Duke Williams

 

 

 

Awesome response. I like people who build people up. Thats why I cant wait until you put your weekly post game thoughts so we can have a good old fashion football discussion.

 

 

 

Why? Im intrigued by this notion. Sammy hasn't shown much but curious of the parallels you are drawing.

 

 

 

Lol you mean the way everyone was expecting Wannstedt to ramp it up for the real dance. He only liked one flavor milk shake... Vanilla. I hope Schwartz like some salt and pepper on his steak. I love his scheme in the front 7 but the back 4 im not sure yet. It seems like we might need to wait until McKelvin comes back so we can see the starting 4

 

 

 

Nuff said. Awesome reaction.

What more can a guy show in camp than two handheld videos that went viral? You wanna bet that Sammy Watkins is a bust? I'll bet against you. Would I take him on my fantasy team? No, but that has nothing to do with him. His talent is pretty apparent I'd say. He has pretty much been the darling of the NFL in terms of rookies flashing in training camp. Edited August 19, 2014 by metzelaars_lives

[MDH]

Having learned more about him, there is reason to believe that he might be a fine player. This doesn't necessarily make him a good pick, let alone trading away a future first round pick in the process.

Can EJ get the ball to him? I think that the answer to this will go a long way to determine whether or not it was a good trade.

Of course, if one has lots of confidence in EJ one would absolutely love the pick.

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure how I feel about what they gave up to acquire Watkins either though I do love the player.

 

As for Gilmore I think the new enforcement of the rules are going to handicap him. He's a physical corner and if they take that away from him I'm not sure he has the hips to stay with the better receivers on a consistent basis. Granted, I think the same goes for a guy like Sherman, so we'll see. What I do know is that after a few weeks of pre-season ball is that the NFL is going to be painful to watch if they keep throwing these flags as often as they are right now. It's mind boggling to think that the offenses are putting up record numbers but the NFL still isn't happy with it and they want more offense.

[The Big Cat]

Gilmore is only visible when something runs afoul. And since the club's come off, he hasn't been that visible.

 

More over, he's starting year three.

 

Everyone seems to conveniently overlook the fact that we're totally content with McKelvin on the other side, in spite of the fact the lights didn't fully come on for him until last year...year five.

 

CB's have a long life expectancy. The Bills could do MUCH worse than Gilmore and McLovin manning the outside for the next five years.

Edited August 19, 2014 by The Big Cat

[Chuck Schick]

 

Yes

 

And on Top of that the rules this year on not in Gilmores favor.

 

You can really see peoples' defeatist attitudes in some of these posts. If Mike Wiiliams had made the same catch that Benjamin did against - let's say Sherman- would Anybody be wondering if Sherman now sucks? Of course not.

If we had 22 Gilmores on the team (skill level adjusted to the size and speed of each position) we would have one of the best teams in the league.

[1B4IDie]

 

You can really see peoples' defeatist attitudes in some of these posts. If Mike Wiiliams had made the same catch that Benjamin did against - let's say Sherman- would Anybody be wondering if Sherman now sucks? Of course not.

If we had 22 Gilmores on the team (skill level adjusted to the size and speed of each position) we would have one of the best teams in the league.

But you forgot he got "burned" for two TDs in preseason therefore he sucks and needs to be cut.

[Jerry Jabber]

Why so serious, I love how you’re twisting around things that I said. I actually tried to have a decent conversation with you, but I can tell that is impossible with you. I mentioned the fact that Gilmore hasn’t looked well so far, which could be from the fact that he had offseason surgery and looks rusty. Others on here have said that the new rules could be impacting Gilmore style of play as well, which I agree could be factor. I also asked based on how Gilmore has been playing now in the preseason, how confident everyone is that Gilmore will match up against Brandon Marshall? Based on your logic, just because Gilmore played at a high level in previous seasons, that automatically guarantees that he will have the same production year after year. It’s okay, I know you have blinders on and don’t like to acknowledge facts just because it’s just the preseason and these games mean nothing. Sorry, but all sports, including the NFL is a results based business, meaning “what have you done for me lately?” So, going back to your irrational logic, you’re saying that anyone who has played great throughout their careers can still play that way now…guess Doug Whaley should try and sign the Bills teams of the 90’s, because Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, etc.. were all great year after year, so that means that they can still do it today…man, that’s a great idea, I can’t believe no one else has figured that one out yet. Wow, you’re a freakin’ genius!!!

So, go ahead, twist my words around aand try and spin it off in some irrational, delusional way again.

[CountDorkula]

Why so serious, I love how you’re twisting around things that I said. I actually tried to have a decent conversation with you, but I can tell that is impossible with you. I mentioned the fact that Gilmore hasn’t looked well so far, which could be from the fact that he had offseason surgery and looks rusty. Others on here have said that the new rules could be impacting Gilmore style of play as well, which I agree could be factor. I also asked based on how Gilmore has been playing now in the preseason, how confident everyone is that Gilmore will match up against Brandon Marshall? Based on your logic, just because Gilmore played at a high level in previous seasons, that automatically guarantees that he will have the same production year after year. It’s okay, I know you have blinders on and don’t like to acknowledge facts just because it’s just the preseason and these games mean nothing. Sorry, but all sports, including the NFL is a results based business, meaning “what have you done for me lately?” So, going back to your irrational logic, you’re saying that anyone who has played great throughout their careers can still play that way now…guess Doug Whaley should try and sign the Bills teams of the 90’s, because Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, etc.. were all great year after year, so that means that they can still do it today…man, that’s a great idea, I can’t believe no one else has figured that one out yet. Wow, you’re a freakin’ genius!!!

So, go ahead, twist my words around aand try and spin it off in some irrational, delusional way again.

 

What have you done for me lately Gilmore?

 

Answer: Held QB's to a 42 Rating the last 5 regular season games I Played

 

 

Allen Iverson.. What do you think?

 

Answer: We Talking bout practice man.

 

[Jerry Jabber]

Count Dorkula,

 

That was last year, not this preseason. I hope when it's the regular season, we'll see the Gilmore of old, but so far, he hasn't looked good. Remember when Turk Schonert Langston Walker got fired 10 days before the start of the regular season? Jauron's job was on the line then. With a new owner coming soon, you can bet a lot more jobs are on the line this year.

[1B4IDie]

Why so serious, I love how you’re twisting around things that I said. I actually tried to have a decent conversation with you, but I can tell that is impossible with you. I mentioned the fact that Gilmore hasn’t looked well so far, which could be from the fact that he had offseason surgery and looks rusty. Others on here have said that the new rules could be impacting Gilmore style of play as well, which I agree could be factor. I also asked based on how Gilmore has been playing now in the preseason, how confident everyone is that Gilmore will match up against Brandon Marshall? Based on your logic, just because Gilmore played at a high level in previous seasons, that automatically guarantees that he will have the same production year after year. It’s okay, I know you have blinders on and don’t like to acknowledge facts just because it’s just the preseason and these games mean nothing. Sorry, but all sports, including the NFL is a results based business, meaning “what have you done for me lately?” So, going back to your irrational logic, you’re saying that anyone who has played great throughout their careers can still play that way now…guess Doug Whaley should try and sign the Bills teams of the 90’s, because Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, etc.. were all great year after year, so that means that they can still do it today…man, that’s a great idea, I can’t believe no one else has figured that one out yet. Wow, you’re a freakin’ genius!!!

So, go ahead, twist my words around aand try and spin it off in some irrational, delusional way again.

In case you're actually being earnest, posting ridiculous strawman arguments like "Gilmore is loafing" or "Whaley should try and sign the Bills teams of the 90's" are examples of NOT trying to have a "decent conversation".

 

There are in fact examples of the worst possible kinds of posts.

 

Just an FYI.

[Jerry Jabber]

Twisting things around again I see.

In regards to “Gilmore is loafing,” I asked you is that your assumption regarding how Gilmore is currently playing, meaning it’s the preseason and he’s not giving 100%, so that’s why he’s given up TD’s in consecutive weeks. And you twisted that around, as well as trying to put words into my mouth saying that Gilmore should be cut because gave up TD’s in consecutive weeks in the preseason (which I never said).

I also brought up the fact about players returning from injuries, or long time periods off of football tend to struggle coming back on the field, which could be a reason why Gilmore’s play is suffering, but you chose to ignore that. So continue being a troll and twisting around other people’s words on here. If you have no concerns about Gilmore play in the preseason, then good on you. The Bills should be playing into the 3^rd quarter on their next preseason game, what’s your excuse going to be if Gilmore gives up another TD making it three weeks in a row? Oh wait, I shouldn’t have even asked that because I know you’re respond “he played good throughout his career so far, so it doesn’t matter!”

[chris heff]

Wow those were some long posts! In the words of the hardest working man in show business, James Brown, "that's a lot of words man".

[1B4IDie]

Twisting things around again I see.

In regards to “Gilmore is loafing,” I asked you is that your assumption regarding how Gilmore is currently playing, meaning it’s the preseason and he’s not giving 100%, so that’s why he’s given up TD’s in consecutive weeks. And you twisted that around, as well as trying to put words into my mouth saying that Gilmore should be cut because gave up TD’s in consecutive weeks in the preseason (which I never said).

I also brought up the fact about players returning from injuries, or long time periods off of football tend to struggle coming back on the field, which could be a reason why Gilmore’s play is suffering, but you chose to ignore that. So continue being a troll and twisting around other people’s words on here. If you have no concerns about Gilmore play in the preseason, then good on you. The Bills should be playing into the 3^rd quarter on their next preseason game, what’s your excuse going to be if Gilmore gives up another TD making it three weeks in a row? Oh wait, I shouldn’t have even asked that because I know you’re respond “he played good throughout his career so far, so it doesn’t matter!”

 

 

Dude give it a rest. Nothing I said could be interpreted to mean that Gilmore is loafing. You're asking a question you already know the answer to then arguing the point. That is not attempting to have a "decent conversation."

 

i could care less about discussing Gilmore's performance with you as you have made it clear you do not want to have a "decent conversation". You don't like Gilmore's play in preseason and you think it will be exploited in the regular season; Fair point. We will see come the regular season.

 

Good Day to you, Sir.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Why So Serious?